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Sam_777
Guest
“Muhammad would ask a 71st time”
where that came from!!!
Please read the Tafseer:
Link:raoofonline.com/index.php?T=9&id=26
That link in Arabic, print it and show it to your Shekh.
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where that came from!!!
Please read the Tafseer:
Link:raoofonline.com/index.php?T=9&id=26
That link in Arabic, print it and show it to your Shekh.
I
inJESUS
Guest
وما روي عن النبي صلى الله عليه واله أنه قال ( والله لأزيدن على السبعين ) خبر واحد لا يلتفت إليه ، ولان في ذلك أن النبي صلى الله عليه واله استغفر للكفار وذلك لا يجوز بالإجماع“Muhammad would ask a 71st time”
where that came from!!!
Please read the Tafseer:
Link:raoofonline.com/index.php?T=9&id=26
That link in Arabic, print it and show it to your Shekh.
it says that 71 is taken from one negligible report and that praying for kuffar is a big no no according to the Quran.
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Lapell
Guest
I believe Sam777 was referring to people who would “ask for forgiveness” without a truly contrite heart, while those who asked for forgiveness 70 times with a contrite heart and need to ask for forgiveness for a 71st time and do it with a contrite heart, why wouldn’t these be forgiven? Does it clarify it for both of you?
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CreosMary
Guest
Galations; 1:6-10
6
I wonder that you are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ, unto another gospel.
7 Which is not another: only there are some that trouble you and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema.
9 As we said before, so now I say again: If any one preach to you a gospel, besides that which you have received, let him be anathema.
10 For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? If I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
6
I wonder that you are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ, unto another gospel.
7 Which is not another: only there are some that trouble you and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema.
9 As we said before, so now I say again: If any one preach to you a gospel, besides that which you have received, let him be anathema.
10 For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? If I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
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AgnosTheist
Guest
I already told you: Muslims think the Jews have committed the crime of “stealing” the holy land.
You neglect the Muslims’ 60+ year history of constantly attacking the nation of Israel. Intent of ‘driving them into the sea’.
Muslims also participated in the holocaust. And Iran is still intent on erasing Israel from the Map.
Among Muslims, its the violent fanatics who often have the louder voice. And the rest are often cowered by them. Thats how the wahabbis & talibans got their way.
Among Christians & Jews, its the peacemakers who often have the louder voice. Peaceful christians always truimph over the fanatics & troublemakers.
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Lapell
Guest
Still, it’s not all Muslims, far from it. And what they alALL do (other than Hamas and other Islamist terrorists) is not what you will find on T.V., or so rarely!
Would you tell us, please, what your religion, or agnosticism or atheism (or your own set of principles) teaches you about forgiveness? This is what this thread (and I) is interested in.
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AgnosTheist
Guest
i did not say it was. the problem i see is that peaceful muslims dont know how to suppress or oppose the violent muslim fanatics. like its the west that stopped the insanity of the talibans. its often the western spy network that roots out muslim terrorists living in the west, rather than the peaceful muslims who expose the violent ones.
i live by the golden rule. this teaches me forgiveness, since i want to be forgiven in return. golden rule.
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Sagefrakrobatik
Guest
Hinduism
There is no Sanskrit equivalent to the word “guilt.” Hindus accept karma, the universal principle of cause and effect that governs all life. Not to be mistaken for fate, for humans act with free will creating their own destinies, it is the totality of our actions and their concomitant reactions in this and previous lives, all of which determine our future.
As elsewhere, the concept of natural or divine law has, throughout the history of Indian civilization, governed ideas about the proper conduct of living. The Sanskrit term dharma signifies the underlying order in nature and life (human or other) and all are expected to act in accordance with that order.
Wrongdoing, adharma, is acting against this natural order and is viewed as an unfortunate result of avidya, darkness of ignorance. This ignorance is not lack of erudition but about the nature of “Being,” a limitation natural to humans. Likened to a deeply rooted tree with four thick branches – ego, desire, denial and fear – avidya obscures the truth and is the root cause of all suffering, keeping humanity captive in samsara. Only jnana, knowledge, i.e. awareness free of conceptual encumbrances, can dispel avidya. And when this happens there can be no wrongdoing.
Wrongdoing not only generates negative consequences but also a residue, “sin,” papa, which is likened to a sticky, astral substance and must be dissolved through penance (prayashchitta), austerity (tapas) and good deeds (sukritya). Papa is also accrued through unknowing or unintentional transgressions of dharma, as in the term aparadha (offence, fault and mistake).
Hindu and Guilt
There is no Sanskrit equivalent to the word “guilt.” Hindus accept karma, the universal principle of cause and effect that governs all life. Not to be mistaken for fate, for humans act with free will creating their own destinies, it is the totality of our actions and their concomitant reactions in this and previous lives, all of which determine our future.
As elsewhere, the concept of natural or divine law has, throughout the history of Indian civilization, governed ideas about the proper conduct of living. The Sanskrit term dharma signifies the underlying order in nature and life (human or other) and all are expected to act in accordance with that order.
Wrongdoing, adharma, is acting against this natural order and is viewed as an unfortunate result of avidya, darkness of ignorance. This ignorance is not lack of erudition but about the nature of “Being,” a limitation natural to humans. Likened to a deeply rooted tree with four thick branches – ego, desire, denial and fear – avidya obscures the truth and is the root cause of all suffering, keeping humanity captive in samsara. Only jnana, knowledge, i.e. awareness free of conceptual encumbrances, can dispel avidya. And when this happens there can be no wrongdoing.
Wrongdoing not only generates negative consequences but also a residue, “sin,” papa, which is likened to a sticky, astral substance and must be dissolved through penance (prayashchitta), austerity (tapas) and good deeds (sukritya). Papa is also accrued through unknowing or unintentional transgressions of dharma, as in the term aparadha (offence, fault and mistake).
Hindu and Guilt
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Lapell
Guest
Nothing on people forgiving other people for their wrongs against them?
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HashemEchad
Guest
I had always known that Judaism teaches forgiveness, but it was driven home to me on October 1, 2006 in a very dramatic way.
I was in synagogue because it was Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement. When I got home, I learned of an horrific event: a madman had gone into an Old Order Amish schoolhouse and randomly murdered several innocent little Amish schoolgirls. His attack killed 5 and left one in a comatose state for life; she is only 6 years old.
What totally stunned me and most of the rest of the world, was the way the Amish community responded. They forgave the murderer and his family, THAT VERY DAY.
I sent a rather large donation to the fund set up for those girls, and I remember being upset when I learned that the Amish planned to give some of the money from that fund to the family of the murderer; I could not forgive as they had.
At the time, I was dealing with a very seirous situation in my own family, where I too needed to forgive, but could not. The fact that that killing (and forgiveness by the Amish) took place ON the Jewish Day of Atonement (when we are forgiven by God), left a deep impression on me. I was finally able to forgive the family member in question, because (I reasoned), If the Amish could so quickly forgive a man who murdered their children, I could certainly forgive for far less.
In Judaism, forgiveness is central to our faith; we are taught that we cannot be forgiven our sins by God unless we spend the week before Yom Kippur, asking forgiveness of others whom we have offended.
This is in line with what Jesus in Christianity taught, when he said that if a person is about to give a gift at the altar, and if he remembers he has something against someone, he is to go and make amends with that person FIRST, then come back and give the gift (this is Jewish teaching.)
Some Christians portray Judaism as an unforgiving religion of law, and Christianity as a forgiving religion of peace, but this is not really true.
Much of what Christianity believes about forgiveness, came from Jewish teachings as promulgated by Jesus and his followers.
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HashemEchad
Guest
I wanted to also address the issue of “Jews stealing land from Muslims”.
Not all Jews are zionists; I am not a zionist. While I do believe the Promised Land is ultimately destined for the Jewish people based on God’s promise of it, I do not believe it is ours YET. The Talmud (Kesubos 111a) tells us not to go en masse to take back the Promised Land by force, for if we do, we will know nothing but sorrows and bloodshed (and we see, the Talmud was right.)
Jews are to wait for God’s timing, not push Him aside and grab it for ourselves. One of the Lubavitcher Rebbes of the past said that just as Jews did not go into exile via our own power, we are not to remove ourselves from the exile through our own power.
The original zionists were atheistic, secular Jews, mostly communists and mostly from Russia…their goal was a secular state, with a quota placed at the time on Orthodox Jews of 20%. There is a lot more I could tell you which would make you see that zionism at its heart was really antisemitic. For more info, see jewsagainstzionism.com
But regardless, the Land was not taken from MUSLIMS really, but from ARABS. Remember that not all Muslims are Arabs, and not all Arabs are Muslims (many are Christians.)
Not all Jews are zionists; I am not a zionist. While I do believe the Promised Land is ultimately destined for the Jewish people based on God’s promise of it, I do not believe it is ours YET. The Talmud (Kesubos 111a) tells us not to go en masse to take back the Promised Land by force, for if we do, we will know nothing but sorrows and bloodshed (and we see, the Talmud was right.)
Jews are to wait for God’s timing, not push Him aside and grab it for ourselves. One of the Lubavitcher Rebbes of the past said that just as Jews did not go into exile via our own power, we are not to remove ourselves from the exile through our own power.
The original zionists were atheistic, secular Jews, mostly communists and mostly from Russia…their goal was a secular state, with a quota placed at the time on Orthodox Jews of 20%. There is a lot more I could tell you which would make you see that zionism at its heart was really antisemitic. For more info, see jewsagainstzionism.com
But regardless, the Land was not taken from MUSLIMS really, but from ARABS. Remember that not all Muslims are Arabs, and not all Arabs are Muslims (many are Christians.)
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Valke2
Guest
According to teaching, that same tractate teaches that Jews will not rebel against government’s in which they live. Would this prohibit rebellion in Nazi Germany?
Relying on one tractate in the Talmud for the belief that Israel should not exist is not an example of normative judaism.
Relying on one tractate in the Talmud for the belief that Israel should not exist is not an example of normative judaism.
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Valke2
Guest
Moreover, there’s a third prohibition which is against other countries oppressing jews more than necessary. Orthodox Zionists, according to wikipedia, believe that the failure of the world to keep this commandment nullifies the prohibition against ascending to the Holy land.
I could also argue that we did not use force to ascend to the holy land, but only to keep it. Israel was given to us.
I could also argue that we did not use force to ascend to the holy land, but only to keep it. Israel was given to us.
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AgnosTheist
Guest
problem is, muslims cant tell the difference. anyway you seem to be against the method by which the land had been acquired. but since its already yours, what do you propose be done about it?
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Lapell
Guest
You’re putting all Jews in the same bag once more!problem is, muslims cant tell the difference. anyway you seem to be against the method by which the land had been acquired. but since its already yours, what do you propose be done about it?
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AgnosTheist
Guest
israeli policy gives israel to all jews. “right of return”.
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rossum
Guest
Buddhism:3. “He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me.”
Those who harbor such thoughts do not still their hatred.
- “He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me.”
Those who do not harbor such thoughts still their hatred. - Hatred is never appeased by hatred in this world;
by love alone is hatred appeased. This is an ancient law.
And a somewhat familiar one:
Love others as you love yourself.
Bhadramayakaravyakarana sutra 91
rossum
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famdigy
Guest
i don’t deny anti-semetism exists and it is wrong. However lets not confuse anti-semetism with anti-zionism.
- All jews have the right of return but the 2 million Palestinian refugees don’t have that right… why?
- The creation of the state of Israel was in response to the holocaust, so why are the Palestinians made to pay for the crimes of the Europeans in the holocaust.?
- why don’t the Germans ask jews for forgiveness and give them a small part of Germany in compensation… After all the holocaust happened in Europe.
- Why can’t Palestinians also vote for a representative in the Israeli government?
Ironically the Jewish motto is to “never forget, never forgive”
time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,947354,00.html
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Kaninchen
Guest
As opposed to your motto, which would appear to be: “Search around for something any Jew might have said in whatever circumstance and pretend that it’s some kind of universal creed.”
Well done - there’s a name for that approach.
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Valke2
Guest
I didn’t know we Jews had a motto. But if we did, it wouldn’t be the title of the Article you quoted. I believe you are referring to “Never Forget” I don’t believe “never fogive” is part of it.
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