Forgiveness soley by believing?

[PePPaR]

Acts 10:43 says “All the prophets testify about Him [Jesus] that everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

Doesen’t this passage clearly state that one can be forgiven by BELIEVING and DEVOTING THEMSELVES to JESUS?

 

[PePPaR]

Forgot to add that my main point is that - From the passage, does it not state that one can be forgiven by believing in Jesus WITHOUT going to confession.

*Can’t edit my topic for some reason.

 

[Trishie]

It is not a complete statement for the Sacrament of Reconciliation, but an acknowledgement of Jesus’ redemption of us from our sins.
Have you considered asking your question of an Apologist?

It is true that it can be uncomfortable to confess some sins, even knowing that the priest has heard everything, and possibly many times over. It can be possible to go to a priest in another parish where a person is unknown if they find Confession difficult in their own parish? Some people do, if a fault or sin particularly troubles them.

However, the priest does not judge. He offers Absolution, and reconciliation with the community, as even our hidden sins are injury to the faith community.
He has Christ’s mandate to act in the person of Christ:

Jesus came to His apostles, the first priests, as He said to them,
“Peace be with you.” and showed them his hands and his side. The disciples were filled with joy when they saw the Lord, and he said to them again, “peace be with you.”

"As the Father sent me, so I am sending you.
After saying this he breathed on them and said:
"Receive the Holy Spirit,
For those whose sins you forgive,
they are forgiven;
for those whose sins you retain,
they are retained."
So you see the authority for priests to administer the Sacrament of Confession ( Reconciliation) comes from Jesus Himself and we cannot take His wishes or His intentions lightly.

John chapter 20, verses 20-29

All the best, Trishie

 

[Paul2274]

2 Cor 5:18-20

18 And all this is from God, who has reconciled us to himself through Christ and given us the ministry of reconciliation,
19 namely, God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting their trespasses against them and **entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. **
20 So we are ambassadors for Christ, as if God were appealing through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

 

[Paul2274]

14 Is anyone among you sick? He should summon the presbyters of the church, and they should pray over him and anoint (him) with oil in the name of the Lord,
15 and the prayer of faith will save the sick person, and the Lord will raise him up. If he has committed any sins, he will be forgiven.
16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The fervent prayer of a righteous person is very powerful.

Saying here to summon the church. Someone (the priests) will pray over them and annoint them. If you have sins they are forgiven by this. Therefore confess your sins to one another for the prayer of a righteous person is very powerful (prayer from the priest) and as a “conduit”, the forgivness of Jesus comes through the priest to you.

Paul

 

[Todd_Easton]

Baptism, the sacrament of faith, is the ordinary means for obtaining forgiveness of sins. In the Nicene Creed we say, “We believe in one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.”
And Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins… (Acts 2:38)

Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name." (Acts 22:16)

He who believes and is baptized will be saved… (Mark 16:16)

 

[Ilroy]

Acts 10:43 says “All the prophets testify about Him [Jesus] that everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

Doesen’t this passage clearly state that one can be forgiven by BELIEVING and DEVOTING THEMSELVES to JESUS?

Firstly, if you look at the verse you quoted, just where do you see the part I underlined? By doing this you are adding to the text what is not there.
Secondly, if you believe is Him you will try to do everything He tells you, correct? Well, the other posters have pointed out some of the related things He has told us to do concerning forgiveness. See, we as Catholice believe and try to follow everything in the deposit of Faith to include everything in the bible. You seem to have picked a verse to try and justify staying away from the sacrament of confession. As has been pointed out, Christ gave us the sacrament as the normal means of forgiveness.

 

[Lampo]

Acts 10:43 says “All the prophets testify about Him [Jesus] that everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

Doesen’t this passage clearly state that one can be forgiven by BELIEVING and DEVOTING THEMSELVES to JESUS?

“If you forgive others their transgressions, your heavenly Father will forgive you. But if you do not forgive others, neither will your Father forgive your transgressions.” - Matt. 6:14-15

If your Father in Heaven does not forgive your transgressions can you enter Heaven?

 

[Newbie2]

Acts 10:43 says “All the prophets testify about Him [Jesus] that everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

Doesen’t this passage clearly state that one can be forgiven by BELIEVING and DEVOTING THEMSELVES to JESUS?

It does, but all scripture needs to be taken into context and within the scope of other scripture (as the previous posters have quoted).

It also does not say “through his name only” or specify how such forgiveness is granted (logistically).

 

[Static]

It does, but all scripture needs to be taken into context and within the scope of other scripture (as the previous posters have quoted).

Exactly ! Context as N2 stated. We can take one verse & run with it & conform it to whatever we need it to say to fit our beliefs. There are many sects (factions) that have started their own church just off of one verse.What does scripture say about such ? ( Gal 5:19-21 ) T

Look at what was quoted by Todd in Acts 2:38 for instance. It says be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Now, why in the world do we baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, when this verse clearly states that it is done in the name of Jesus Christ ? Again, context.

May God Bless, Static ( 1 Tim 1:15

 

[clh1217]

Baptism, the sacrament of faith, is the ordinary means for obtaining forgiveness of sins. In the Nicene Creed we say, “We believe in one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.”

And Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins… (Acts 2:38)

one of Satan’s favorite verses to con you into beleiving that somehow…baptism saves.

oh have mercy!

First,** please notice that verse 38 isn’t the only verse in Acts 2.

**

that alone is going to help you.

In Peter’s message, a great deal was said before verse 38 came out of his mouth.

In fact, he even told his listeners how to be saved before verse 38!

In Acts 2:21, Peter quotes from Joel 2 and says, **“And it shall come to pass,that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” **

His words preceding verse 38 were so convicting that his listeners were “pricked in their heart” in verse 37.

So, to use verse 38 out of its context causes a misrepresentation of God’s word.

The verse does not stand alone, and, in fact, a totally different meaning is conveyed when one makes it stand alone.

 

[LilyM]

Acts 10:43 says “All the prophets testify about Him [Jesus] that everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

Doesen’t this passage clearly state that one can be forgiven by BELIEVING and DEVOTING THEMSELVES to JESUS?

Well, you’re right to say you’re not forgiven by believing alone, at least, since as St Paul points out even the devils believe in Jesus and tremble.

So what must one do apart from believing? There are things like being baptised, there are things like obeying the commandments … and there is also the requirement of listening to the Church, since as He told the Apostles ‘who hears you hears Me, who rejects you rejects Me’.

So when the Church, which has the power to bind and loose, and was given the authority to forgive sins for good reason (Jesus certainly intended them to use it!), tells us we need to go to confession for forgiveness from certain sins, you’d best be believing it.

 

[clh1217]

So what must one do apart from believing? There are things like being baptised, there are things like obeying the commandments … and there is also the requirement of listening to the Church, since as He told the Apostles ‘who hears you hears Me, who rejects you rejects Me’.

.

those “things” do not save.

Nor do they keep you saved.

Those are acts of obedience because you are reflecting the love and grace and mercy that God has shed upon you.

 

[LilyM]

those “things” do not save.

Nor do they keep you saved.

Those are acts of obedience because you are reflecting the love and grace and mercy that God has shed upon you.

This thread, however, isn’t about salvation but about forgiveness which is a different topic.

In any event the acts and the saving grace necessarily go together - you can’t claim to be a good tree without producing the requisite fruit, including the fruit of humility and obedience which will necessarily bring you to confession when you sin.

 

[clh1217]

This thread, however, isn’t about salvation but about forgiveness which is a different topic.

In any event the acts and the saving grace necessarily go together - you can’t claim to be a good tree without producing the requisite fruit, including the fruit of humility and obedience which will necessarily bring you to confession when you sin.

Very well…

the bible does not tell us “to go to confession” and expect forgiveness from God.

in your statement of

So when the Church, which has the power to bind and loose, and was given the authority to forgive sins for good reason (Jesus certainly intended them to use it!), tells us we need to go to confession for forgiveness from certain sins, you’d best be believing it.

you may be in a state of misconception of what this truly means.

the "C"hurch is not solely the Catholic church, …to take on this presupposition puts limits on God and His power.

the "C"hurch has absolutely NO authority to forgive any sin unless it is a “horizontal” offense against the church, but ultimate forgiveness comes from God alone and must be dealt with on the vertical plane between the sinner and God…ALONE. No "C"hurch involved.

Therefore…the term ““GOING to confession”” for forgiveness does NOT MEAN walking into your sactuary and confessing to a priest…having the "C"hurch grant you forgiveness is futile unless your sin is against the "C"hurch. Even then, you still must seek forgiveness from God alone.

…it means falling to your knees no matter where you are and confessing strait to Jesus…who is your only and sole intercessor between you and God.

 

[LilyM]

Very well…

the bible does not tell us “to go to confession” and expect forgiveness from God.

in your statement of

you may be in a state of misconception of what this truly means.

the "C"hurch is not solely the Catholic church, …to take on this presupposition puts limits on God and His power.

the "C"hurch has absolutely NO authority to forgive any sin unless it is a “horizontal” offense against the church, but ultimate forgiveness comes from God alone and must be dealt with on the vertical plane between the sinner and God…ALONE. No "C"hurch involved.

Therefore…the term ““GOING to confession”” for forgiveness does NOT MEAN walking into your sactuary and confessing to a priest…having the "C"hurch grant you forgiveness is futile unless your sin is against the "C"hurch. Even then, you still must seek forgiveness from God alone.

…it means falling to your knees no matter where you are and confessing strait to Jesus…who is your only and sole intercessor between you and God.

I do seek forgiveness from God when I confess (on my knees, by the way, and very much to Him, by the way - it’s not as if He leaves the area or stops listening to me when I start talking to my priest!)

And my prayer for forgiveness, the Act of Contrition that I say in confession, is directly to God and Him alone, so no different to what you would say when you seek forgiveness.)

Besides which the priest absolves me ‘through the ministry of the Church’ (not in the name of, although effectively it is a reconciliation with the Church as well, since all sin harms the body of Christ which is the Church) but the absolution is ‘IN THE NAME OF’ Father Son and Holy Spirit. So the forgiveness comes direct from God, Who works through a human agent as He has chosen to do so many times throughout the history of Christianity.

There is only one Church, since it is the Body of Christ Himself it must necessarily be one, and must necessarily be undivided. Catholicism proclaims ONE truth, unlike the many fragmented non-Catholic denominations which cannot agree with each other over the most basic of things - not even the divinity of Jesus or the reality of His resurrection! They certainly don’t form His body.

The difference between us is that I seek forgiveness from God through the ONE sure means that He has ordained, which is by the agency of (God acting through) the priest.

God has ONLY promised forgiveness through ONE means - the agency of the Apostles (‘whose sins you forgive are forgiven, whose sins you retain are retained’ … no guarantee otherwise given in scripture).

Which Apostles passed this agency on, by laying on of hands and gifting a share of their own authority, to their successors, (as they did, for example to Matthias, who succeeded Judas, and then they also laid hands on Paul, did they not?) Which successors did the same to their successors and on in an unbroken line to our own priests and bishops.

 

[clh1217]

…

The difference between us is that I seek forgiveness from God through the one sure means that He has ordained, which is by the agency of (God acting through) the priest.

.

where in scripture ALONE does God act through a priest when it comes to forgiveness of ANY SIN that you committed that is NOT against he priest himself???

 

[LilyM]

where in scripture ALONE does God act through a priest when it comes to forgiveness of ANY SIN that you committed that is NOT against he priest himself???

Happened all the time in the Old Testament - firstly in the Mosaic law ALL sacrifices for ALL sins were taken to the priest first, the sins confessed verbally to the priest and then the sacrifice offered by the priest on behalf of the sinner, who thus obtained God’s forgiveness through the intermediary of the priest.

No-one dreamed of marching straight over to the Holy of Holies where God dwelt and approaching Him directly, as if forgiveness could be obtained other than by means of the earthly priesthood God had set up, since the Israelites knew what you don’t, which is that God doesn’t set up such systems without darn good reason, that the earthly priesthood has benefits and is in fact necessary for us if not being particularly necessary from God’s end.

Look especially at David’s sin - not only was God’s agent, the prophet Nathan, required to show David the extent of his sin in having Uriah killed, once David DID repent it ALSO required Nathan to TELL David that his prayers of repentance had actually been heard (since forgiveness is not guaranteed merely by the asking for it - we can ask in all sorts of improper ways and with all sorts of improper attitudes which mean we won’t be forgiven) and that he had indeed been forgiven by God. :yup:

 

[clh1217]

Happened all the time in the Old Testament - firstly in the Mosaic law ALL sacrifices for ALL sins were taken to the priest first, the sins confessed verbally to the priest and then the sacrifice offered by the priest on behalf of the sinner, who thus obtained God’s forgiveness through the intermediary of the priest.

No-one dreamed of marching straight over to the Holy of Holies where God dwelt and approaching Him directly, as if forgiveness could be obtained other than by means of the earthly priesthood God had set up, since the Israelites knew what you don’t, which is that God doesn’t set up such systems without darn good reason, that the earthly priesthood has benefits and is in fact necessary for us if not being particularly necessary from God’s end.

Look especially at David’s sin - not only was God’s agent, the prophet Nathan, required to show David the extent of his sin in having Uriah killed, once David DID repent it ALSO required Nathan to TELL David that his prayers of repentance had actually been heard (since forgiveness is not guaranteed merely by the asking for it - we can ask in all sorts of improper ways and with all sorts of improper attitudes which mean we won’t be forgiven) and that he had indeed been forgiven by God. :yup:

Okay…the OT is awesome. No doubt about it.

But Jesus came on the scene.

We no longer need a man or a thing between us, and God.

You are living your life behind the viel…

it was torn, and through Christ, you are welcome to approach God WITHOUT going through a priest.

Actually…Christ came to BE the intercessor between you and God.

You are short changing Christ, and belittling His death if you “go to” confession to a priest.

Romans 8:34

–“It is Christ who died; yes, rather, who is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God; who also makes intercession for us!”

Please, don’t sell our Christ short by putting a stumbling block (a priest) between Him and you. It is not pleasing.

 

[LilyM]

Okay…the OT is awesome. No doubt about it.

But Jesus came on the scene.

We no longer need a man or a thing between us, and God.

You are living your life behind the viel…

it was torn, and through Christ, you are welcome to approach God WITHOUT going through a priest.

Actually…Christ came to BE the intercessor between you and God.

You are short changing Christ, and belittling His death if you “go to” confession to a priest.

Romans 8:34

–“It is Christ who died; yes, rather, who is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God; who also makes intercession for us!”

Please, don’t sell our Christ short by putting a stumbling block (a priest) between Him and you. It is not pleasing.

The NT is pretty awesome too - particularly awesome in that Jesus in it doesn’t ABOLISH the OT, not a jot or tittle. Rather He FULFILS it. While keeping important bits like the 10 commandments and so forth.

And funnily enough, that awesome NT tells us that it was after Christ tore that veil, and rose again, that he gave the Apostles their (obviously necessary and obviously pleasing to Him) authority and duty (the two parts of it go together) to forgive sins. And in that awesome NT He also promised (and you can’t be pleasing at all with your failure to acknowledge or trust in this particular promise) that He would act through them and their successors, so that those sins that they forgave on His behalf would indeed be forgiven. :yup:

He DIDN’T, by contrast, state anywhere that people would be guaranteed to have all their sins forgiven simply by praying to Him, did He? :nope:

See, He knew that He was going to ascend to the Father a short time later and that we would actually NEED a priesthood still, being the frail humans we are, we do work better with other humans. A priest isn’t a stumbling block, any more than the Jewish priests were stumbling blocks between them and God. How could they be, their office was ordained by God Himself! So were the offices and authority of the Apostles and their successors, who form the NT priesthood. Including the authority and duty to forgive sins on His behalf.

On the contrary, NOT having priests is a stumbling block, since it makes every man his own Pope, but more than that, it makes every man nothing less than his own god (little g, of course, since these personal gods are as false as those worshipped by the neighbours of the Israelites).

Let’s look at some more of that awesome NT - Jesus also ordered them to go out and baptise people during this time after His resurrection. You believe, I suppose, that people can’t baptise themselves, but that they NEED a human agent acting on God’s behalf to perform that little procedure?

You also believe, I’m guessing, that people can’t marry themselves either, or at least can’t become ‘what God hath joined’ as He intends, without a pastor present? Again, human agency is NEEDED for this sacrament to come to be.

Very clearly the equally important task of forgiving sin was entrusted, in similar manner, to human priests.