Forgiveness???

[Damascus]

Mrs.Abbott,

You must seperate the two things in your mind, Gods forgiveness and her forgiveness.

It would be nice if she was able to forgive you but lets keep in mind she may need more time, or she may not understand the whole concept of forgiveness they way we do. Maybe she has no Christian concept of her need to forgive you and therefore she is ignorant of the truth.

“as we forgive those who trespass against us”

Seems she is not getting that clear somehow., or she needs more time, or she is blaming herself for why it happened to begin with, some women think if they were only smarter, prettier, skinnier, blah blah —then it would have never happened to begin with.

So, maybe if she can forgive herself for blaming herself (if she is) or maybe if she finds the truth and gets some christian principles clear, she may see the light.

But if she does not, oh well. I have compassion for her but come on now.

You must not let this get in the way of your life and your relationship with God.

I have a thought. Write all this stuff down on paper. Put it in a mason jar and tighten the lid. Bury it in the backyard. Take another look at it in a year.

I dont expect you forget about it totally, I just ask you to set it aside for now.

 

[Prague]

Mrs. Abbott: I have two sisters. They were both married. Younger sister had affair with older sisters husband. Older sister divorced husband. Her husband married my younger sister! This happened 20 years ago.
My older sister hated our younger sister, and called her every rotten name spoken.
I had prayed constantly and thought the hate would go on forever.
Last year, my older sister and younger sister made peace with one another.
Don’t give up, and remember you are not alone. So many of us have done what we thought was unforgiveable. I am one of those sinners who found it difficult for forgive myself, but God loves me, and I knew he forgave me, and who am I not to follow his lead.
God Bless

 

[1ke]

I was “the other woman” in a relationship for two years. I knew he was married and all that so it was a very horrible thing that I did.

There were two people in this situation, you and the man. He had an equal part in this-- moreso since he made the vow to his wife and broke that vow.

The fact that she has remained with him tells me she has moved on but is choosing to harden her heart towards you to inflict pain on you. Please don’t let that attempt at punishment continue to hurt you.

I suggest you not contact her again and move on with your life.

You can’t change what happened in the past, please don’t keep beating yourself up over it.

 

[Damascus]

There were two people in this situation, you and the man. He had an equal part in this-- moreso since he made the vow to his wife and broke that vow.

**The fact that she has remained with him tells me she has moved on but is choosing to harden her heart towards you to inflict pain on you. Please don’t let that attempt at punishment continue to hurt you. **

What? she is choosing to be with her husband who cheated on her to “inflict pain” on mrs abbott???

Maybe there might be more reasons, like She is His Wife???

I suggest you not contact her again and move on with your life.

I agree she cant change what she and he did, but good god man you make the wife out to be an ogre here!

 

[ktp]

I agree she cant change what she and he did, but good god man you make the wife out to be an ogre here!

I agree. I’m a little horrified at the judgment being heaped on a betrayed wife, because she does not welcome and embrace ‘the other woman’ only 2 years later.

Someone already said, but it bears repeating: forgiving does not require the other to have contact with the offender.

We do not know this woman’s heart. We do not know whether she has hired a hit man in her thirst for vengeance, or whether, perhaps, she prays the rosary every single night asking God to help her deal with her pain and to forgive, or is somewhere in between, as most people would be. Perhaps she has forgiven, but simply does not want any contact with her. Perhaps she doesn’t know why she is being contacted, and is afraid of more trouble. I can’t say I really blame her. Again, I mean NO offense or criticism of one who is truly sorry for her actions, but let’s not be so harsh on the wife: how many of you would want to have contact with someone who slept with your spouse for two years???

I seriously doubt she’s a ‘monster,’ and if she is, that is certainly God’s place to judge, not ours!

 

[KindredSoul]

What? she is choosing to be with her husband who cheated on her to “inflict pain” on mrs abbott???

Maybe there might be more reasons, like She is His Wife???

I’m sure 1ke didn’t mean that the wife was trying to “inflict pain” by staying with her husband, but rather by holding the grudge solely against Mrs. Abbot. In other words, she has forgiven her husband–who was just as guilty–and has apparently done so enough so that their marriage is now “happy.” Yet she still can’t even be civil with Mrs. Abbot, enough to at least say “Okay, I forgive you; after all, I forgave him…I just can’t have you in my life.” That does sound a little vengeful (or at least unconcerned with doing the right thing), to me anyway. And vengeance is all about inflicting pain.

Now, I’m not saying the wife is an ogre or a monster either. That’s not our place to judge; she’s merely imperfect and human, as are we all. To make a monster out of her, after all, would be ironically to mirror her apparent wrath. She’s a victim, no doubt. But now, (the repentant and guilt-ridden) Mrs. Abbot has become a sort of ironic victim too. As third parties, we must have compassion and forgiveness for both sides. I’m just saying that I don’t think 1ke meant that one line the way it was taken.

PS - Mrs. Abbot, you probably realize that by saying you’re a victim too I don’t mean to say you’re not responsable for your actions…but you seem to realize that fully. I respect that; it shows you truly have a grasp on sin and personal responsability for it. My advice? If she refuses to forgive you, you can only say you tried, and make it right with God alone, and move on. Do no hate her, or even be angry or impatient with her lack of forgiveness, because none of us can angrily demand forgiveness from those we have wronged, even though they should forgive (it’s just always the right thing to do)…the only thing you can do at this point is just don’t dwell on it or let it control your joy, or else you’ll never recover. I’ll pray that you find peace–I know what it’s like to hold on to guilt for a past you can’t change.

 

[Damascus]

Kindred Soul,

With all due respect, do you know for a fact that the wife has truly forgiven the husband in question?

And please, I was not unfair to MrsAbott. Did you read my post prior?

And do you speak from experience in these matters?

I do.

I only adressed the Bolded part of #24 to be clear.

Did you even consider she Accepted his transgression, yet has still not forgiven him for it?

 

[KindredSoul]

Damascus, I wasn’t saying you were being unfair to Mrs. Abbot. If that’s what it sounded like, I apologize; it wasn’t my intention at all. I have read this whole thread, and you’ve been kind to her. All I was saying is that I think you had misunderstood what 1ke was saying…I again quote you:

What? she is choosing to be with her husband who cheated on her to “inflict pain” on mrs abbott???

It seemed that you thought she was saying that the wife was trying to hurt Mrs. Abbot by staying with her husband. I don’t think she meant that (by re-reading my post, and hers you can see what I think she meant). If you didn’t think that’s what she meant, I apologize for misunderstanding…but you may see why I’d think that’s what you were saying.

As for the rest, I was writing assuming truth in Mrs. Abbot’s assessment of the couple as “happy” now, in which forgiveness is assumed (a grudge filled marriage can hardly be called “happy”). If that assessment is mistaken, which it may be, then yeah the wife is pretty consistent and “fair”. It’s still a grudge, which is wrong (even if understandable, mind) but then she distributes it “fairly”, absurd as that sounds, and I’ll grant that in that case my post doesn’t apply–because the wife may truly be trying but failing to forgive in that case if she is similarly failing to forgive her husband. If Mrs. Abbot’s assessment is right, though, which it may be, then my post still applies.

To answer another question, I’ve no personal experience with cheating, though I do with being hurt and bearing a grudge; everyone probably does. If I was in the wife’s shoes, I could hold a grudge, and likely would for years. But it’d be because I too am human and flawed. But I’ve made it clear in my post that I don’t think the wife is a horrible monster even if my post applies–just human and flawed, just like me and you.

I’m sorry if I’ve offended you, though, Damascus. I meant no disrespect toward the victimized wife, and I mean no disrespect toward you and your similar struggles in life. I understand that this is a sensitive issue, and it’s easy to take offense if you’ve been there. Even so, no offense was intended or is intended. Again, my heart goes out to all the people involved.

 

[Damascus]

No prob, Kindred soul. I guess its the holiday stuff and the emotions that surround it that make it a bit harder for everyone here, and I just want to make it clear I am concerned with MrsAbott now, and her life with God, and that I love her and want her to get on with life. That is all.

 

[KindredSoul]

This isn’t addressed to anyone, and is irrelevant to my previous posts on this thread, I just like it: Jaypeeto3’s post in #17 is pretty insightful. I completely agree with those sentiments and just wanted to throw some emphasis on it.

 

[KindredSoul]

Thanks Damascus! I can understand those sentiments, definitely. I love this season, myself, but I completely sympathize that his time of year can be an emotional drain on a lot of people.

 

[Eireann]

It’s by far the most serious thing I’ve ever done to offend God in my entire life. It makes me sick thinking that I did that.

Anyway my last word on this, it seems like even if the other person did contact you and said " I forgive you " that you still would be unable to forgive yourself, just my assumption.

So in the end like others have said, you need to stop beating yourself up, confess, pray, and move on.

Human forgiveness is just that, human, Gods forgiveness is Devine, humans forgive but many don’t forget, God forgets.

Crumple up that old piece of paper, throw it in the bin, and start with a clean sheet, and get on with it, and learn to accept Gods forgiveness, and get on with your life.

No one on this forum is without sin, no-one can cast the first stone, we all have skeletons in our cupboard, I’ve had to, we’ve all had to.

God Bless.

 

[1ke]

What? she is choosing to be with her husband who cheated on her to “inflict pain” on mrs abbott???

I did not say that.

She is choosing to withhold forgiveness .

I agree she cant change what she and he did, but good god man you make the wife out to be an ogre here!

I am not a man.

 

[ktp]

She is choosing to withhold forgiveness .

I believe the original statement was that she is choosing to withhold forgiveness in order to inflict pain on mrs. abbott.

I still find this statement judgmental and most likely inaccurate.

First and foremost, we know only that this woman wants no contact with mrs. abbott. That really doesn’t tell us anything about whether she has forgiven. They are two separate things. One can (as others have said) forgive another without embracing them.

Second, it is easy to talk about ‘choosing’ to forgive. Anyone who has been deeply hurt knows that it is a little like ‘choosing’ to climb Mount Everest. Just because you make a choice to do it, and are attempting to do it doesn’t mean you’re going to instantly be at the top. It’s a long, hard process.

Third, even if she has not forgiven, it’s extremely likely that it is because she hurts, or because (again, as has already been pointed out) she doesn’t have a real concept of Christian forgiveness, or because she is as yet unable to… not with any deliberate intent to hurt another.

Someone has criticized this poor woman for forgiving her husband but not mrs. abbott. That may be because she is desperately trying to salvage her marriage. She has a far, far stronger interest in trying to forgive her husband.

If I read correctly, this affair lasted two years, and only ended two years ago. I can guarantee this woman and her marriage are still trying to pull out from the fallout. Two years of secrecy, lies, betrayal, and sex with another is a huge blow to a person and to a marriage. There will be trust issues for years, and it most likely will never be full restored. At this point, they may be putting on a happy face for others, but that doesn’t mean it’s all like it never happened, behind closed doors.

I really can’t believe what I’m reading here. Someone slept with her husband for two years, was part of lying to and deceiving her for two years, and now she’s being condemned for not being right there on the offender’s schedule ready to forgive the instant the offender is ready to repent! Yes, it would be great if she were. Yes, God calls us to do it, but that doesn’t mean everyone is instantly able to do it. It doesn’t mean that the offender has a right to demand it. It doesn’t mean that anyone but God has the right to judge her on this matter.

Again, mrs. abbot, I mean no offense at all to you. You are not the one saying these things about this woman. It takes courage and strength to confess and truly repent, and I believe you did the right thing. In the meantime, I would suggest continually praying for this woman and her marriage, and respecting her wishes. You have done what you could.

 

[jonfan]

I am truly sorry for things that I have done in my past. I tried to ask forgiveness of the party I hurt but they want nothing to do with me, as I have caused irreputable damage in their lives.
I have confessed it in confession but still I feel this massive amount of guilt for what I have done and it ended two, almost three years ago.
How do I get over this guilt? It’s consuming my life and keeping me from being truly happy. This scenario that I was involved in also is what drove me away from the Church, as I was lost deep in the devil’s clutches.
I sometimes sit and wonder how much different and better my life would have been if this whole thing had never happened. It seems like it was a long time ago but the memory still haunts me as though it happened yesterday.
I’ve tried praying about it but nothing changes the guilt I feel. Is this my punishment? Do I have to live with this guilt for the rest of my life? I deserve it though because I did a horrible, horrible thing.
I guess what I’m asking is there any hope or is this my cross that I have to bear until I die???

Trust in God’s compassion and his abilty to forgive.

 

[dessert]

Sometimes in our circle of women, some of us believe that the woman has to be cautiooous because men are kind of considered just dumb clucks who are ruled bey theeir homaones and so we are not suppose to laugh at rheir jokes feel symphathy or it will just lead them on.And the women are suppose to learn how to hang onto their man in any way they can but some like to (men) I mean have a couple string of womenn even if it is at the golf course with them fowling them around, don’t get me wrong I can take instruction from men or women. But much of it starts out as just friendship and then esculates knowing when to stop is the best advantage. So it is not just one persons fault and maybe she is still in love a little with the husband like a closer bond.
If Mrs A is really having such a very extreem hard time she may have to move if she can in order to break any bonds or get back to a upport group with some men in it that can be trust worthy and of cousrse this is maybe why she had a hard time confessing to a priest as she didn’t know how to trust a man again after giving her entire emotional person to a married man.

And then been betrayed! I have met trust worthy people in my church and confession with my priest has helped but I have yet to feel I can go to just any priest which is something I ned to address because they are sworn to chastity and truth and compasion and privacy and so I encourage her to move and keep going to that church or try another . Mrs.A. you are probably a very caring and sympathetic perosn just guard that as to the Lord first and the real catholic brothers and sisters.
return

 

[Damascus]

Mrs Abbott,

I am a huge sinner. Always was. Most likely will always be. I dont know if it helps, but I used to ponder the woman at the well story in hard times. And that woman did lead many to Christ. She left the jug behind her. She moved on. Jesus spoke to her and her love for him surpassed any feelings of not being worthy enough anymore. She was so overcome by his love she did not look back, but forward.

Look forward in his love, and lead others to him. You can do it Mrs Abbott, You have compassion and a kind heart. Leave this weight behind you and take hold of the gift that you have in Him, and charge on.

 

[ricko]

Sometimes saying “I’m sorry” just is not enough. Someone who has been done a great injustice is not out of bonds by denying forgivness. For forgiveness to happen there must be repentance and justice. I see the repentance but did not hear about justice. Without knowing the sin you must try to make things right. If you stole, for example, you must repay.

requirement of forgiveness does not cancel out the objective requirements of justice. . . . In no passage of the gospel message does forgiveness, or mercy as its source, mean indulgence toward evil, toward scandals, toward injury or insult. In any case, reparation for evil and scandal, compensation for injury, and satisfaction for insult are conditions for forgiveness" (DM 14).
John Paul II

 

[mrs_abbott]

Thank you all for your kind words on this “ever so horrible” topic.
I went and talked to a priest that I’ve known for several years about this to seek some spiritual resolution. He suggested that I do some volunteer work with women in crisis marriages, if I felt comfortable doing that.
I like the idea of helping women who were hurt, similar to the woman that I hurt a few years, by cheating or abusive husbands. I guess it can be a chance for me to use my experience and help others to try and make some good come out of a horrible situation.
Does that sound like a good idea?
I think it would slowly help me mend, personally, while helping others at the same time.

 

[Damascus]

If you can do it MrsAbbott, and you pray to the Holy Spirit to guide you in this, You know I am 100 percent behind you in whatever you do!