Forgiving debt-advice needed

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Tasha

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Hello to everyone on this Ash Wednesday. I had trouble deciding where to put my post, so please forgive if it’s better suited elsewhere. I need advice/(name removed by moderator)ut on a dilemma I’m facing right now. My ex-husband owes me upwards of $53,000. $20,000 is for back child support and the rest is interest at 12% per year. (In fact, I was under the belief that the state had closed the case many years ago). I haven’t seen or spoken to my ex in 20 years and neither has my child. His child support has been deliquent for 20 years, which is why the interest is so high. My child and I suffered consideribly during the time he didn’t pay child support. My child is, of course, grown now, and I haven’t considered the debt or persued it for 20 years. My ex recently (two weeks ago) contacted me concerning this debt. He has married a Russian girl and she wants to visit “her home country”, but he cannot go with her because he owes the state. He offered me $5000 to waive the debt for him. I can not decide what to do. I keep reading Matthew chapter 18:21-35, and I’m feeling guilty about this! As a side note, I am disabled and live on a very tiny fixed income. I’ve never been able to buy a house. I can’t afford a car. I don’t even have TV because my income won’t allow it. I would certainly do well with the money I’m owed, but the ex is bullying me constantly and now his wife is e-mailing me with lots of sob stories. Please advise, fellow Catholics!
 
I don’t think I’d let him off the hook that easily. I might forgo the interest - but I think he owes you the original amount of $20,000 and I personally wouldn’t settle for any less… sob story or not. He & his wife can take out a loan - pay you off and then pay on it. You had to suffer all those years without the money… I don’t think you need to feel guilty about their plight in the least. If he doesn’t get to go to Russia it’s HIS fault - not yours. Stand your ground - insist on the $20,000 and let him you know you are being VERY generous in not making him pay the full amount. That’s my opinion.

Bless you for your strength in raising your son without any support.
Twenty years without seeing his son? Your ex sounds like a piece of work.

CM
 
I think you should make him pay the debt. Letting him off will just tell him that it’s okay for him to treat you this way, and others, for that matter. He created the debt and needs to be responsible for it.

Tell him you’re sorry that he can’t go with his wife to Russia, but it’s not your fault, it’s his. He needs to take responsibility for his actions.

Scout :tiphat:
 
Tasha, you are a heroic woman and my hat is off to you. You have done a great job with little resources and at least one hand tied behind your back.
  • No Car
  • No House
  • No TV
This is not a case of Gospel Charity. This is a case of a just debt owed to you as the caretaker but also to your son. If you were my sister, I would track Mr. International Vacationer down and put a lien on his house, car, retirement account, business and anything I can find. He is playing you a fool offering 10 cents on the dollar while he travels internationally while you and your family live what seems hand to mouth.

Bull droppings.

He owes you $53,000 cash or certified check. Not a dime less.
 
You need to contact a lawyer. First, many states have provisions where such debts may be garnished from his wages, tax refunds, etc.

You supported your family on your own, and he was supposed to help you do that. The things you cannot now afford may have been possibilities if he lived up to his end and paid you what you were entitled to.

If it were me, I’d nail him to the wall.
 
Actully while you were the “payee” in all actual truth, he owed child suport to the child, since the money was to be paid for the child and her needs while she was young.

I don’t believe this is your choice to make alone and your child (not grouwn) should be invovled in the choice but also included in recieving part of they money for her current needs,
(futher education or so on)

And this is not truely debt as in a loan, or other debt, but is is actually funds due for the welfare of a child and not truely a debt.

I beleive you and your child is due this money and it is not something liek a perosnal loan that can be forgiven.

I see no problem in forgiving the interest but not the support amount. But again this is only if the state would allow this, remember if you recieved public assistance while he was not paying child support, they have a legal right to the money for reinbursement of support paid. So you may or may not have the right to even forgive this.
 
As far as forgiving the debt…did you ever have a choice to “lend” him the money? Making a choice to lend someone money and then forgiving the debt is one thing.

But you have gone for 20 years without the benefit of what was legally and morally yours. He fathered the child, he was responsible for supporting him. He made his choices years ago.

So you have no car and he gets to go to a foreign country as a tourist??? What’s wrong with this picture?

And think about this…would it ever have occurred to him to call you and offer you $5000 if it wasn’t keeping him from going to Russia?

Here’s an alternate scenario which would maybe cause me to consider forgiving the debt:
Him: Tasha, I know its been 20 years since we’ve spoken. I want you to know that I realize I really messed up all those years ago, and I’m really sorry. I know your life was hard because of me, and I’m trying to make amends for people I have hurt in my life. There is no way I could affort all I owe you, but I would like to offer you something as a token of my sincerity. If I gave you $5000, would you consider forgiving the rest of the debt. The way I see it, $5000 now is a windfall, and I would seriously consider taking it.

But no, its:
I have a new life now and this old business is keeping me from doing what I want. Can I buy you off for $5000 so I can go on my way. True, $5000 is more than you would have had if he never contacted you, but I wouldn’t let him off the hook now that he has opened the can of worms.

There is forgiveness, and there is living the consequences of your choices.

Arlene
 
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Fr_Chuck:
Actully while you were the “payee” in all actual truth, he owed child suport to the child, since the money was to be paid for the child and her needs while she was young.

I don’t believe this is your choice to make alone and your child (not grouwn) should be invovled in the choice but also included in recieving part of they money for her current needs,
(futher education or so on)

And this is not truely debt as in a loan, or other debt, but is is actually funds due for the welfare of a child and not truely a debt.

I beleive you and your child is due this money and it is not something liek a perosnal loan that can be forgiven.

I see no problem in forgiving the interest but not the support amount. But again this is only if the state would allow this, remember if you recieved public assistance while he was not paying child support, they have a legal right to the money for reinbursement of support paid. So you may or may not have the right to even forgive this.
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Legally, that doesn’t wash. It is support paid to the spouse with custody for the purpose of assisting in the bills necessitated by the existence of the child. The child is not owed anything legally; Tasha paid the expenses or they both went without. Whether or not she chooses to give anything to the child, it is money owed to her.
 
Tasha, part of the problem is the fact that you are seeing this as an issue to be concerned about.

There would be no debt had he paid the child support when due.

If he was not able to pay it at any given time, it was his responsiblity, not yours, to approach the court and ask for either a reduction or a temporary period of time with no support.

The fact that he didn’t means simply that he was not willing to accept his responsibility to assist in raising his child.

He owes the money; should you recover (and the payment by all means needs to be paid through the court having jurisdiction - the court where you got your divorce, if you still live in the same state, or the court where you live if you are now in a different state), there may or may not be issues of the state’s right to some of that if you received assisstance.

He wants to travel? No problem whatsoever. Just pay the bill and the issue will be resolved. He wants to negotiate it down? Well, tell him you don’t have that authority, as the State has an interest in this and it is out of your hands - then go see the District Attorney’s office nearest you; they should have a section that deals with child support. And if they won’t take it, check your church and see if you can find an attorney to assist you on small percentage basis. If you need more, feel free to pm me.
 
this is a matter between your husband, child, and the state. He needs to go to court or contact the child support decision. they will contact you or your adult child. get a lawyer and be ready.
 
Thank you so much to all who wrote back! I’m feeling better already. I should have given more details on this, so here are the rest of the facts: I was on assistance from the state after I had to quit my job, due to my disability. For years and years Child Support Enforcement tried to locate my ex to collect not only what was due me, but also what he owed the state during the time I was on assistance. Child Support Enforcement dropped the case in 1994, so I never gave it another thought. When I called the Clerk of Court, (after the ex contacted me), I learned that the state, not CSE, was keeping record of the total owed and the interest accruing, which is nearly $7.00 a day. The Clerk of Court informed me that I had complete control of the debt now. I have the option of waiving the back support or the interest, or both, or any amount I choose. Any money collected through them would all go to me now. He no longer owes any of it to the state. So the ex knows I have the power to waive all or part of the total. He is writing me almost daily, sometimes bullying and insulting me, other times he is contrite. However, $53,000 is quite a sum and he’s the type to act sorry if he can have his way. His wife’s letters have been charming AND pitiful. She called the amount he owed, “unhuman”. Yikes.
 
Did you provide an atmosphere where your ex could have visited his son, or let his son visit him? To me this is the focus point. If you kept your son from his father, then you must admit some of the blame. If not, he is so far from fair that you should take every cent owed and give it to your son for his future. He is the one who probably suffered the most, and may still be suffering. Definately get your son’s (name removed by moderator)ut on this too.
 
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Tasha:
Any money collected through them would all go to me now. He no longer owes any of it to the state. So the ex knows I have the power to waive all or part of the total. He is writing me almost daily, sometimes bullying and insulting me, other times he is contrite. However, $53,000 is quite a sum and he’s the type to act sorry if he can have his way. His wife’s letters have been charming AND pitiful. She called the amount he owed, “unhuman”. Yikes.
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I know it’s tempting to believe his act… but like I said-- I’d nail him to the wall.

He and his wife are conning you. Unhuman??? Unhuman is walking out on your family and responsibilities and showing back up when you want to go on vacation.

He has NO care for you, so please don’t be fooled. If it were me, I’d make him pay in full. If they keep harrassing you, file a complaint with the police.

I promise you, he would have never contacted you if he could do as he pleased without doing so. He would be spending money on the new wife. It’s money he owes YOU.

I would not budge one bit on my rights and what is owed. You must think of your situation, and you need the money.

Honestly, I’d have only two things to say to him:
  • Pay Up
  • Cease the harrassment or I’ll have you arrested
Get a lawyer-- look for one who helps low income women, contact Catholic Charities. Lawyers are for the express purpose of looking out for your best interest and removing the emotion from the situation.

They are trying to play you. Don’t let them. I know you are looking at being a forgiving Christian-- but Jesus was also hard on people when he needed to be. Don’t forget the Jesus with the whip in the temple.

Your claim is JUST. You have no reason to feel bad about collecting the money. It is not an UNjust debt.
 
Dittos to 1ke. Get some legal representation to send an offer to waive the accumulated interest if and only if he’ll pay the principal plus fees within a set time frame, with instructions that all further contact should be through your legal representative. If he turns that down, knowing as you do now that he has the discretionary income to consider international travel, go after the full amount owed.
 
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Tasha:
. When I called the Clerk of Court, (after the ex contacted me), I learned that the state, not CSE, was keeping record of the total owed and the interest accruing, which is nearly $7.00 a day. The Clerk of Court informed me that I had complete control of the debt now. I .
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get this in writing with the appropriate judge’s journal entry or it might come back to haunt you if you do collect on the debt. also ask your tax advisor what impact this will have and get advice structuring the repayment
 
Wow! OK, 1ke…I’ve prayed about this and sought counsel. I’m going to write him. I’m going to tell him to send money. Whatever amount he sends, I will go to the courthouse and have that amount waived. Pure and simple. If he wants to pay through the courthouse, the Clerk of Court will subtract that amount for me. I’ll get it either way. He keeps implying that if he has to pay through the courthouse, it will be much less. I’m also certain that he thinks I will sign off/waive the entire amount THEN he’ll send me the $5000. Yeah, right. (I also forgot to mention his offer was $500 a month for 10 months). If there is anything he remembers about me, it’s I’m a sucker! If he or his wife give me any grief, I’ll talk to Catholic Charities. I’ll get legal representation. I also feel, in the back of my heart, that as soon as he knows I’m not waiving any amount FIRST, I’ll never see a dime anyway. To Rebecca New: Yes, I encouraged visitation, until my 5 year-old came home explaining to me what crack cocaine was and how they went on drug deals together. Also, the ex was watching porn in front of the kid! My kid was terrified to say the least…
Thank you all for pointing out that I didn’t LEND him the money, so Matt. 18 does not apply here. Big sigh of relief!!! Hugs for everyone. I’m so grateful! Thank you. Thank you one and all.
 
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Tasha:
When I called the Clerk of Court, (after the ex contacted me), I learned that the state, not CSE, was keeping record of the total owed and the interest accruing, which is nearly $7.00 a day. The Clerk of Court informed me that I had complete control of the debt now.

His wife’s letters have been charming AND pitiful. She called the amount he owed, “unhuman”. Yikes.
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Two thoughts. The clerk of the court is not representing you as an attorney. The clerk may be right, or the clerk may be wrong; if they are wrong and you rely on their advice, you will be in the wrong, too. If, however, either a judge says officially (usually from the bench in a proceeding), or an attorney after looking into the case gives you a written opinion (verbal comments have a tendency to be forgotten - either literally, or conveniently) that you have no obligation to the state, then you are protected, should it later be decided that was not the case. I suggest that you seek legal cousel before making any agreement.

As to her comments: she wasn’t there when you were struggling emotionally and financially to raise a child as a single parent. I would suggest that what is “unhuman” was the responsiblity thrown on your shoulders. Further, andything “unhuman” about the amount owing would have been resolved by a simple check each month when the support was due; the debt would be gone and he and she would not be in this situation.

And why is she playing a blame-game sub rosa with you? He’s the one who didn’t pay; you did not create thi ssituation. He did.

And as a further comment: getting an attorney to represent you get both him and her off your case. They need to take up the issue with the attorney. Or as the kids used to say “You’re talking to the hand, because the head is not listening…”

Don’t cave in. You did your job; now it is his turn to do what he should have done long ago.
 
Tasha:

There can be no shame in pursuing what is owed you, that is for sure. Weather you will get it back or not is for God to decide. If you find you don’t get it even with all the efforts you attempt, then consider that possibly God wants it that way, and He may have a higher purpose that you don’t know about.

All the same, your rights state you can reclaim what is due to you, and you are in a special need case. Perhaps you may feel that one day all your needs are met, and you can decide to not press the matter further when that happens. But that would be up to you.

Good luck in your endeavors.

Andy
 
How much does a trip for two to Russia cost these days?

$5,000…$10,000???

I think you should ignore the sob stories from his new wife and get what you are owed.
 
Hi everyone, thanks again for all your suggestions. Thought I would let you know that I told both the ex and his wife that there was no way I was going to sign off on the debt, or any part of the debt until I had received payment (no matter the amount we could have negotiated) first. That stopped them cold. His wife was starting to use scare tactics-mentioning that they had a private investigator friend who was formally in the FBI. As if that would make a difference! I just KNEW they were trying to intimidate me into signing off first. otm, you were right in saying the Clerk of Court is not represetning me as an attorney, and could possibly be wrong. I’m going to request paperwork, showing the break down of charges, etc. The only hope I have of collecting at this point is to hire an attorney but I’d just rather be left alone and regain my peace of mind. Bless you all!! Tasha
 
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