Former apostate seeking baptism on short notice

[Ravyn_Guiliani]

If she was not baptized Catholic then she cannot be confirmed Catholic until after going through the RCIA program or some kind of equivalent. Being baptized outside of the Church is not a short-cut to anything - if anything, she just made the road even longer for herself.

I believe I said twice that my priest baptized her.
and I don’t agree with the baptized ‘Catholic’–otherwise why would the Church recognize any Christian baptism that was according to formula? Isn’t that the whole point of Confirmation when someone was baptized as an infant? Show me in the Catechism.
If someone is going to be traveling for the next year or two I see no reason why they should do it unbaptized because they can’t attend RCIA. I say ask your local priest and explain the situation. There are always exceptions allowed.
And if the priest determines that someone should not be baptized under those circumstances, then like I said before–baptism of desire would apply and the person is still protected like the catechumens.

 

[jmcrae]

I believe I said twice that my priest baptized her.
and I don’t agree with the baptized ‘Catholic’–otherwise why would the Church recognize any Christian baptism that was according to formula? Isn’t that the whole point of Confirmation when someone was baptized as an infant?

These are people who had no idea of the existence of the Catholic Church at the time of their baptism. They weren’t doing a quickie short-cut - they were doing the best they knew at the time.

By the way, everyone who is baptized with the intent of doing what the church does is Catholic in the eyes of Christ, until they make a conscious decision to be a member of a different church.

 

[Ravyn_Guiliani]

These are people who had no idea of the existence of the Catholic Church at the time of their baptism. They weren’t doing a quickie short-cut - they were doing the best they knew at the time.

what are you talking about quickie shortcut? Baptism is baptism. and it is irrelevant since my sister was baptized by the priest! LOL no one is talking about taking Communion, just being baptized as opposed to being unbaptized. You would deny someone baptism based on what? That they could not sit in a room with 20 or 30 others every Wednesday night for a year and learn about Catholic Social Issues? (my RCIA class was lousy and I learned nothing about the Church…) I agree if you can do RCIA you should. But this is a special circumstance with the traveling and moving I would think.

 

[Ravyn_Guiliani]

By the way, everyone who is baptized with the intent of doing what the church does is Catholic in the eyes of Christ, until they make a conscious decision to be a member of a different church.

well that makes more sense than being baptized into a denomination.

 

[Cristiano]

what are you talking about quickie shortcut? Baptism is baptism. and it is irrelevant since my sister was baptized by the priest! LOL no one is talking about taking Communion, just being baptized as opposed to being unbaptized. You would deny someone baptism based on what? That they could not sit in a room with 20 or 30 others every Wednesday night for a year and learn about Catholic Social Issues? **(my RCIA class was lousy and I learned nothing about the Church…) **I agree if you can do RCIA you should. But this is a special circumstance with the traveling and moving I would think.

I am sorry to say but I think that you are partially correct about it. I can see a lot of confusion about sacramental theology and what is the extent of the Church.

It is really easy to say what where the True Church of Christ (e.g. Catholic Church) is. but it is also very difficult to say where the True Church of Christ (e.g. Catholic Church) is not. Being catholic is not only a naming convention. If you are baptized with the Trinitarian formula and you are not aware (with caveats) of what the Catholic Church truly is (thus you are not rejecting Her) than you are indeed member of the Church and can be saved.

I like your determination in defending your beliefs. I think that you could take a peek at these books on Catholic Basics in order to have a more solid base to defend your beliefs.

 

[MariaG]

I believe I said twice that my priest baptized her.
and I don’t agree with the baptized ‘Catholic’–otherwise why would the Church recognize any Christian baptism that was according to formula?** Isn’t that the whole point of Confirmation when someone was baptized as an infant? Show me in the Catechism.**

The whole point of Confirmation is not to make someone officially Catholic. It is not even, necessarily, a mature “decision” to follow Christ. Confirmation can be given at any age.

In the Eastern Traditions, infants are baptized, confirmed and recieve first communion all at once. In the West, the Tradition was for the bishop to confirm and so confirmation was at a separate time than baptism. Due to the time it takes to travel, this extended out several years in many cases.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church

[1306](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1306.htm’) Every baptized person not yet confirmed can and should receive the sacrament of Confirmation.123 Since Baptism, Confirmation, and Eucharist form a unity, it follows that "the faithful are obliged to receive this sacrament at the appropriate time,"124 for without Confirmation and Eucharist, Baptism is certainly valid and efficacious, but Christian initiation remains incomplete. 1307 For centuries, Latin custom has indicated “the age of discretion” as the reference point for receiving Confirmation. But in danger of death children should be confirmed even if they have not yet attained the age of discretion.125

[1312](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1312.htm’) The original minister of Confirmation is the bishop.130
In the East, ordinarily the priest who baptizes also immediately confers Confirmation in one and the same celebration. But he does so with sacred chrism consecrated by the patriarch or the bishop, thus expressing the apostolic unity of the Church whose bonds are strengthened by the sacrament of Confirmation. In the Latin Church, the same discipline applies to the Baptism of adults or to the reception into full communion with the Church of a person baptized in another Christian community that does not have valid Confirmation.131 [1313](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1313.htm’) In the Latin Rite, the ordinary minister of Confirmation is the bishop.132 If the need arises, the bishop may grant the faculty of administering Confirmation to priests,133 although it is fitting that he confer it himself, mindful that the celebration of Confirmation has been temporally separated from Baptism for this reason. Bishops are the successors of the apostles. They have received the fullness of the sacrament of Holy Orders. The administration of this sacrament by them demonstrates clearly that its effect is to unite those who receive it more closely to the Church, to her apostolic origins, and to her mission of bearing witness to Christ.

 

[Cristiano]

I think that this post does not make too much sense because anyone can baptize anyone.

If an individual is in a clear and imminent risk of death, then he can be baptized by anyone even an atheist. In such cases even the holy water is not necessary, for example the saliva of the person administering the baptism will suffice.

A non-ordained Catholic performing a baptism in a situation that is not of clear and imminent risk of death performs an illicit (grave matter) but valid act.

 

[jmcrae]

I think that this post does not make too much sense because anyone can baptize anyone.

If an individual is in a clear and imminent risk of death, then he can be baptized by anyone even an atheist. In such cases even the holy water is not necessary, for example the saliva of the person administering the baptism will suffice.

Actually, no - saliva won’t work. But clean water from the tank of the toilet, or bottled water, or any other water that is readily available would be fine.

Presuming the person is dying, one has already called the ambulance, and if there is no water around, you can wait for the ambulance to arrive, and ask for a bottle of water from the paramedics, and you can do the baptism with that.

A non-ordained Catholic performing a baptism in a situation that is not of clear and imminent risk of death performs an illicit (grave matter) but valid act.

 

[NonDenom]

So, you said that you were a Christian before? Were you not baptized? If you were (with a trinitarian formula) then you can’t be re-baptized again.

In any case contact the nearest Catholic parish and they will sort you out if you explain them your situation. You will probably have to go to RCIA (Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults) and after that you will be accepted into the Church (possibly baptized and confirmed and receive the first communion in the same day).

Ya, thats what the early church did. You remember in the Scriptures it says that before the 5000 were added they went to RCIA and then they were added to the church

 

[clmowry]

Yep. I bet Peter and the rest of the apostles put on one heck of a program.

Chuck

Ya, thats what the early church did. You remember in the Scriptures it says that before the 5000 were added they went to RCIA and then they were added to the church

 

[toaslan]

Dear Cuban 07,

Ravyn is a little mixed up, but the other posters here are steering you right (except for the non-C. making fun of the issue).

I looked at all the posts to see if I am repeating anybody, and apparently not, so here is my additional suggestion:

Ask a priest to give you his blessing, if you find your baptism will be delayed by the Catholic Church. A Catholic priest has the power of the Apostles, given by Christ, to “confect” the sacraments; his powers to simply bless are special too. He will sign you with the Cross, probably with holy water, and pray over you. It will bless you on your way, and give you some peace of mind as the beginning of your commitment to enter the Church fully when you can. Ask him to lift up you and your intentions. Get a rosary, learn how to pray it, and ask him to bless that too. Then pray it! You will be graced. Commit to the process, and God will see that commitment.

God bless you on your way.

 

[Ravyn_Guiliani]

Dear Cuban 07,

Ravyn is a little mixed up…

(I am? well I guess I am in good company then with the priest who baptized my sister! LOL–blame it on inadequate RCIA years ago then!)