Former atheist. Do I need an annulment?

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Michael_Dude

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Hello group, was hoping to get some answers. I have asked this before and I get answers all over the spectrum. So anyways my first marriage I and my wife were both Atheists, both never baptized. We had a civil service. My second marriage I was still an atheist but married an unbaptized believer again it was a civil service.

A few years after the 2nd divorce and I found God and became a Catholic, went through RCIA and this past Easter was Baptized and received all 3 sacraments. Now I am not with anyone but thinking of the future. Do I need an annulment? Neither marriage was in any way shape or form sacramental and throughout both I was a strict Atheist. Just hoping for some clarification as I have received answers from all over the spectrum.

Thank you
 
I’m not a Canon Law expert but it sounds like you have never entered into a licit marriage as far as the Catholic Church is concerned. As with all important matters, I strongly suggest you contact your parish priest to discuss any future marriage plans. You will have to go through a marriage prep program conducted by the Catholic church prior to any marriage in the Catholic church.

God Bless you and have a Blessed Lenten season! 👍
 
First off, welcome home, and know of my prayers for you.

I would say to consult with your pastor, who can point you in the right direction. Matters of canon law are best referred to someone who’s studied it, and all priests will have studied it in seminary. You are likely to do as you’ve said here and receive a range of answers across the board. From what I can tell, you would most likely not need an annulment of either marriage, since they are between unbaptized persons and thus natural marriages–no sacrament occurred, as that is only possible for the baptized. But this would still require investigation and a potential judicial process with the tribunal. Again, consult your pastor.

-ACEGC
 
Yes certainly I will discuss it with my Priest. I have been trying to research this on my own and as I said I get all kinds of answers.

Thank you for the welcome and prayers, I am so glad to have found the Catholic faith and made it a part of my life. Going forward I wish to take this seriously as the Church Christ built for us.
 
In general, the Church recognises civil marriages between non-baptised persons as being valid (but not sacramental).

You will need to discuss this with your pastor to consider the specifics of your case. While your first marriage is likely considered valid, you could pursue a Pauline Privilege (dissolving a valid but not sacramental marriage).

You can read about the Pauline Privilege here:catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=7272
 
1KE is a great resource for questions like this.

My understanding is that when two people stand in front of a judge, minister, ship captain, or other person authorized to marry them, the Church assumes they have a valid marriage.

It may turn out that’s not the case. Simple situations would be that one or both of the parties are Catholic or Orthodox and didn’t follow the rules of their church in getting married. Another situation might be that one or both of the parties were previously married and thus not free to enter into a new marriage.

Beyond that, you get into more complex situations where a Tribunal has to figure out whether or not a valid marriage took place.

As others have said, your pastor can help you figure out which category you fall into and how to approach things.
 
Michael_Dude said:
Do I need an annulment?
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You need to be declared free to marry.

That may happen through a nullity process. It could also happen through the Petrine Privilege. If your first marriage was to a person who was married prior to you, then you might have a case based on Ligamen, prior bond. Which direction things go will depend in part on what proofs are available.

I suggest you start the process now. Both marriages will have to be examined and the best course of action will then be determined.

A marriage involving one or both unbaptized parties is a natural marriage. Natural marriages can be valid marriages. The Catholic Church recognizes marriages of non-Catholics if there were no impediments or defects.

So, the best course of action is to make an appointment with your pastor to start talking through the process.
 
808Catholic said:
I’m not a Canon Law expert but it sounds like you have never entered into a licit marriage as far as the Catholic Church is concerned.
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The Church recognizes non Catholic marriages. The first marriage would be presumed valid, unless an impediment or defect were found to exist. Since the marriage involved unbaptized individuals, it is possible even if it is valid, it could be dissolved by a favor of the faith.
 
I just wand to add that the church will be concerned with your first marriage and whether it was valid or not. Because the rest depends on that.
 
The fact that you weren’t baptized at the time of both marriages, AND the fact they were both civil services make me think that annulments wouldn’t be necessary…BUT, they still need to clear up those marriages somehow before allowing you to marry in the Catholic Church. It may be as simple as collecting copies of your marriage licenses (you can get them from the state if you didn’t keep them) and divorce decrees, or it may be a little bit more involved, paperwork-wise. My husband was previously married in a Christian church, but he had never been baptized, so rather than an annulment, he could file a “Privilege of the Faith” case (which we learned all priests aren’t very familiar with!). It still takes time and needs approval from Rome, but is a bit less involved and shorter than an annulment case. But the difference from you is that he was married in a church and the Catholic Church does recognize that as valid. My gut says your cases won’t be even as complicated as that, but good thing you’re looking into it now - you could have this all cleared up by the time you meet the woman you’re going to marry in the Catholic Church! Too often people wait until they’re engaged to deal with this stuff and they are delayed and get discouraged. You could look into marriage/annulment seminars put on by tribunal lawyers in your diocese and get your questions easily cleared up there - that’s how we learned about the Privilege of the Faith option. Good luck!!! 👍
 
AllieT said:
The fact that you weren’t baptized at the time of both marriages, AND the fact they were both civil services make me think that annulments wouldn’t be necessary…
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Non Catholics who marry civilly marry validly. The Church presumes the first marriage is valid.
AllieT said:
But the difference from you is that he was married in a church and the Catholic Church does recognize that as valid.
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The Church also recognizes civil marriages of non-Catholics.
 
1ke said:
Non Catholics who marry civilly marry validly. The Church presumes the first marriage is valid.

The Church also recognizes civil marriages of non-Catholics.
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Well, then maybe a Privilege of the Faith case is something the OP should look into, since he wasn’t a baptized Christian at the time of these marriages…
 
My first wife was married before she met me. Sad thing is she hates anything and everything Catholic and I know would not cooperate in any way shape or form. I have reached out to her and asked if the church could mail her something and got cursed out for even asking and hung up on.

:sigh:
1ke said:
You need to be declared free to marry.

That may happen through a nullity process. It could also happen through the Petrine Privilege. If your first marriage was to a person who was married prior to you, then you might have a case based on Ligamen, prior bond. Which direction things go will depend in part on what proofs are available.

I suggest you start the process now. Both marriages will have to be examined and the best course of action will then be determined.

A marriage involving one or both unbaptized parties is a natural marriage. Natural marriages can be valid marriages. The Catholic Church recognizes marriages of non-Catholics if there were no impediments or defects.

So, the best course of action is to make an appointment with your pastor to start talking through the process.
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Michael_Dude said:
My first wife was married before she met me. Sad thing is she hates anything and everything Catholic and I know would not cooperate in any way shape or form. I have reached out to her and asked if the church could mail her something and got cursed out for even asking and hung up on.

:sigh:
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Don’t worry about whether your divorced spouse will cooperate or not … just provide the information requested when you begin the process of determining what your situation is …

Your former spouse cannot hold you hostage with non cooperation …the Tribunal will reach out to her and will allow an appropriate time for her to respond … if they proceed with a full annulment… You do not have to give them anything more then her address really … they make the contact.

If you know she was married - and divorced - before you marriage - obtaining copies of her previous marriage license and divorce decree will help you. They are public records.

The important thing is to start the process - because they take time and an uncooperative spouse can lengthen the process … so every delay you make is time you can never get back …

My former spouse was uncooperative … I have no knowledge that they every responded in any fashion … knowing them well - they probably did not and never intended to do so … 🤷 … I just proceeded in faith while exercising as much patience as I could muster … almost 2 years later I had an answer and he ability to move ahead with my life with greater peace 🙂
 
I know she was married before because I had to go with her to get him to sign the divorce papers because even though he had a new GF and 3 kids with the new GF he was just trying to be a jerk and not sign them for my ex. Needless to say I am ashamed at scaring him into finally signing them but at the time. I wasn’t Christian… About as far as one can be from being a Christian. I have come a loooooooong way in my journey with Christ and have a long way to go still.

Now I do my best to follow the teachings of Christ and the lead of his Holy Church. Whatever needs to be done I’ll do. It just gives me a headache because I know for a verified fact that she will not cooperate and if it absolutely means having to wait 2 years so be it.
YADA said:
Don’t worry about whether your divorced spouse will cooperate or not … just provide the information requested when you begin the process of determining what your situation is …

Your former spouse cannot hold you hostage with non cooperation …the Tribunal will reach out to her and will allow an appropriate time for her to respond … if they proceed with a full annulment… You do not have to give them anything more then her address really … they make the contact.

If you know she was married - and divorced - before you marriage - obtaining copies of her previous marriage license and divorce decree will help you. They are public records.

The important thing is to start the process - because they take time and an uncooperative spouse can lengthen the process … so every delay you make is time you can never get back …

My former spouse was uncooperative … I have no knowledge that they every responded in any fashion … knowing them well - they probably did not and never intended to do so … 🤷 … I just proceeded in faith while exercising as much patience as I could muster … almost 2 years later I had an answer and he ability to move ahead with my life with greater peace 🙂
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Michael_Dude said:
I know she was married before because I had to go with her to get him to sign the divorce papers because even though he had a new GF and 3 kids with the new GF he was just trying to be a jerk and not sign them for my ex. Needless to say I am ashamed at scaring him into finally signing them but at the time. I wasn’t Christian… About as far as one can be from being a Christian. I have come a loooooooong way in my journey with Christ and have a long way to go still.

Now I do my best to follow the teachings of Christ and the lead of his Holy Church. Whatever needs to be done I’ll do. It just gives me a headache because I know for a verified fact that she will not cooperate and if it absolutely means having to wait 2 years so be it.
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Well … I can identify with the whole journey and becoming serious about faith - being a far different person after becoming a Catholic Christian …

I also know procrastination - in my self and those on the fringes of my journey of faith. I will pray for you … take heart … just speak with your priest and provide whatever documentation you can lay your hands on … marriages and divorces are registered and public documents - I would get all of yours and all of the similar records that apply to your former spouses before you married them.

Carefully select your witnesses - make sure that they will honestly participate - not that you will influence what they will attest to - but that they will complete any paperwork and answer truthfully their observations and return that witness testimony to the Tribunal.

If you have all the public documents, your honest [and I can see that you are honest and realistic about yourself as well as others] testimony plus your witnesses honest testimony … whether your ex wife [or wives] decide to participate or not - will not matter …

Trust the process - pray - be honest - be proactive - pray some more …

And pray for all those in your past … our lives are a journey … we are the people we are today - because we are shaped by the events and people in our lives … in many ways - we are shaped by those for whom we do not care for as much as those we respect and or love the most … by those who entered our live for a short time as well as those we have known our entire life … We are shaped by events and how we dealt with those events - both good and bad …

I am holding you in prayer … I can only encourage you to start the process … it may be simple and over in a short time … or it may take months or years … the decision is what you need for your personal well being and life planning - your future … but it begins today - at this moment …

Courage my friend - Christianity is not the faith of the faint of heart … "Be not afraid " as Pope John Paul II [now St John Paul II] said … “Be not afraid - and cast your net into the deep”
 
Your priest can give you information and a preliminary assessment of your case, as have the knowledgeable people here.

It’s quickest to go direct to the marriage tribunal of your diocese and make an appointment. You can get the number from the diocesan web site. They don’t require referral from a priest.
 
Thank you, certainly some great advice. I won’t procrastinate the sooner begun the sooner done. I will schedule some time with my Priest and he can guide me from there.

I owe much to finding Christ and the Church.
YADA said:
Well … I can identify with the whole journey and becoming serious about faith - being a far different person after becoming a Catholic Christian …

I also know procrastination - in my self and those on the fringes of my journey of faith. I will pray for you … take heart … just speak with your priest and provide whatever documentation you can lay your hands on … marriages and divorces are registered and public documents - I would get all of yours and all of the similar records that apply to your former spouses before you married them.

Carefully select your witnesses - make sure that they will honestly participate - not that you will influence what they will attest to - but that they will complete any paperwork and answer truthfully their observations and return that witness testimony to the Tribunal.

If you have all the public documents, your honest [and I can see that you are honest and realistic about yourself as well as others] testimony plus your witnesses honest testimony … whether your ex wife [or wives] decide to participate or not - will not matter …

Trust the process - pray - be honest - be proactive - pray some more …

And pray for all those in your past … our lives are a journey … we are the people we are today - because we are shaped by the events and people in our lives … in many ways - we are shaped by those for whom we do not care for as much as those we respect and or love the most … by those who entered our live for a short time as well as those we have known our entire life … We are shaped by events and how we dealt with those events - both good and bad …

I am holding you in prayer … I can only encourage you to start the process … it may be simple and over in a short time … or it may take months or years … the decision is what you need for your personal well being and life planning - your future … but it begins today - at this moment …

Courage my friend - Christianity is not the faith of the faint of heart … "Be not afraid " as Pope John Paul II [now St John Paul II] said … “Be not afraid - and cast your net into the deep”
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Michael_Dude said:
Hello group, was hoping to get some answers. I have asked this before and I get answers all over the spectrum. …
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Hello,

You’ve come to the right place for a wide variety of answers. I will only say that your situation is far from unique so don’t think that you are in a place too difficult to decipher. There are various ways the process could move forward–it all depends on what evidence you present to the Tribunal.

Do you “need an annulment”? That’s a question that is more technical than it appears and so, to spare you the technical details (and because I don’t know all the practical details of your history) I won’t answer it.

There is no question, however, that your marital status needs to be examined in detail by a competent ecclesiastical authority.

Dan
 
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