Former Catholic Priest Condemns the Catholic Church and Scott Hahn

[Strummer]

Very good replies Strummer.
… through the whole thread

Thank you but coming into this thread after more than 240 posts hardly qualifies me to comment “through the whole thread”. If I had to guess, I’d say you are attempting to use my words to vindicate yourself against an earlier post. If so, I must trust that you are using my words accurately. At least I hope so…

 

[Icarus]

If I had to guess, I’d say you are attempting to use my words to vindicate yourself against an earlier post.

Yes! (I couldn’t be bothered at the time)

If so, I must trust that you are using my words accurately. At least I hope so.

and Yes!

Very good replies Strummer.
… on every post …“from when you began contibuting to this thread”

 

[Icarus]

Truth be told, Strummer…

It’s a pleasure to see someone else who ostensibly has the virtuous ability to discern; and plainly holding an array of attributes. I deduce… by means of: A variety of attained worldly knowledge, understanding of scripture; along with comprehensive life experiences. But most importantly…. (I hope) having through faith & reason found the path to life.

I’ve noticed 6 unmistakable (characteristics) so far. Logic , common sense (a finer tuned sense of the former refined through experience & contemplation there of) a vehemence to defend the RCC, wonderful articulation, and last but not least, something that I terribly need to work on… PATIANCE & SELF CONTROL!

You, of course should not expect such a (or any) review from me again… ever! (Deserving or not - It’s not what I do), nor do I expect anything in giving it.

It’s simply a sincere tip-of-the-hat from a fellow gladiator of this “forum” to another.

 

[Strummer]

I’ve noticed 6 unmistakable (characteristics) so far. Logic , common sense (a finer tuned sense of the former refined through experience & contemplation there of) a vehemence to defend the RCC, wonderful articulation, and last but not least, something that I terribly need to work on… PATIANCE & SELF CONTROL!..

It’s simply a sincere tip-of-the-hat from a fellow gladiator of this “forum” to another.

Very kind words for knowing so little about me. However, you should know that having had a decent rest this long weekend, you just happened to catch me on a good day.

 

[Icarus]

Very kind words for knowing so little about me. .

Yes well… If for twist of fate I’m proven wrong. Well then I’ll need to work on my perspicacity, Wont I? Where-as you will need to work on quite a bit more….

However, you should know that having had a decent rest this long weekend, you just happened to catch me on a good day

Me too

God bless you
& Aimee too

 

[aimee]

Yes well… If for twist of fate I’m proven wrong. Well then I’ll need to work on my perspicacity, Wont I? Where-as you will need to work on quite a bit more….

Me too

God bless you
& Aimee too

Merci

 

[Swan]

I hope my wife will find me attractive when I’m bald because I swear I may just rip my hair out if I read one more “it’s not easy hearing the truth” remark as if that justifies bullying. As if the very fact that people are offended somehow “proves” that you’re telling them “the truth”. Hey, I could say you’re fat and your mother dresses you funny and that may well hurt but it ain’t necessarily because I’m conveying any “truth”. It’d be because I was being rude and hurtful.

Ask yourselves: what is the purpose of apologetics? If you say anything along the lines of converting others, I believe you are mistaken. Apologetics is a–and I’ll type this out slowly so you can get it–DEFENSIVE art. It explains why we believe what we do. It is NOT a “this is why you’re screwed up” attack but more of a “I see you have a misconception about our belief” defense. It should, at its best, clear up misunderstandings non-Catholics have with US; it should NOT be used to highlight misunderstandings they have within their own faith structure. Yes, there are differences. But rather than pontificating on why sola scriptura is a wrong-headed, self-aggrandizing exercise in theological masturbation, rather point out that “here’s why we Catholics believe in the value of Sacred Tradition…” Do you see the difference? This is not an advocation for “warm and fuzzy” but a recognition that bullying is not inspired by the Holy Spirit. Apologetics is not a prideful act of “see, I’m so right and you’re so wrong, nyah nyah nyah.”

What does this screed on the misuse of apologetics, or the misuse of the word “apologetics” have to do with the value of this board to potential converts? It serves as an example of just why, while CAF is indeed a slice of the Catholic pizza, it is a narrow slice and does not seem to include all the toppings available. If this were the only experience one had of Catholicism, one would have a very misleading view. (See also, the tale of the blind men and the elephant.) Much to the chagrin of many here who seem to elevate CAF and EWTN to the level of it’s on cyber-arch-diocese, the Catholic Church is a very large tent with room for a myriad of expression and experiences. THAT, I believe, is why anam and folks like her would benefit from a break from such places for their own spiritual health. This echo chamber is getting rather stuffy and claustrophobic.

Great Post!!!

 

[Roger_Wissinger]

I am studying the Bible. I dont think I would ever consider returning.

I’m sorry to hear that. I’ve heard that if Catholic really knew the faith they wouldn’t leave. When I was 14 my father stopped going and so did I. We moved to Florida from Ohio where I went to St. Bernard’s Catholic School and I just fell away. Went Baptist and came back to the Catholic Church. I started reading Scott Hahn’s The Lamb’s Supper and it open my eyes to the Mass. I’m a better Catholic than I was Baptist. What’s the reason your leaving? I find that Scott Hahn is a blessing and I thank God for him. May Christ be with you and your quest.

 

[Worthy5]

True, but that was not day one. That took a while to build up. Besides, depending on Catholics to buy Theologically orthodox book is a sucker’s bet.

The preist who spoke against him was a religious order priest: he had a vow of poverty. 0 to anything is an improvement.

Religion has always been good business.

 

[distracted]

I hope my wife will find me attractive when I’m bald because I swear I may just rip my hair out if I read one more “it’s not easy hearing the truth” remark as if that justifies bullying. As if the very fact that people are offended somehow “proves” that you’re telling them “the truth”. .

i wish people who rant on as you do would give EXAMPLES of people being “bullies”…

not everyone has time to read ALL posts in ALL threads… so i had NO idea what you were ranting about…

and all i could think of while reading this is that you sound like you are doing the same type of bullying as those you criticize…

 

[distracted]

I’m sorry to hear that. I’ve heard that if Catholic really knew the faith they wouldn’t leave. When I was 14 my father stopped going and so did I. We moved to Florida from Ohio where I went to St. Bernard’s Catholic School and I just fell away. Went Baptist and came back to the Catholic Church. I started reading Scott Hahn’s The Lamb’s Supper and it open my eyes to the Mass. I’m a better Catholic than I was Baptist. What’s the reason your leaving? I find that Scott Hahn is a blessing and I thank God for him. May Christ be with you and your quest.

If they really knew Jesus as i do (and other devout Catholics) they would not leave…

in other words, if they knew the Real Presence they would not leave…

this is one thing i am not happy with the RCC about… they don’t teach people TRUE & complete (orthodox/scirptural) CAtholicism… they seem to have the attitude that people will find their way without being taught or something… NOT true… as my life & others’ lives attest…

i have been Catholic all my life but it was LATE in the game before a priest told me about the benefits of spending serious time @ the RP…

and if i had known about that, i would not have left the Church… and gotten lost… committed sins that i am still paying for & others are also paying…

I pray ALL devout Catholics here will tell others about the RP… and everything else we Catholics have…

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I’m sorry to hear that. I’ve heard that if Catholic really knew the faith they wouldn’t leave. When I was 14 my father stopped going and so did I. We moved to Florida from Ohio where I went to St. Bernard’s Catholic School and I just fell away. Went Baptist and came back to the Catholic Church. I started reading Scott Hahn’s The Lamb’s Supper and it open my eyes to the Mass. I’m a better Catholic than I was Baptist. What’s the reason your leaving? I find that Scott Hahn is a blessing and I thank God for him. May Christ be with you and your quest.

I notice you said you went to a Catholic school and fell away…I can’t count how many folks I’ve talked to who told me they left the Catholic Church after having gone to Catholic school? Was it the education experience or your dad’s lack of enthusiasm or both that made you lose interest?

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

If they really knew Jesus as i do (and other devout Catholics) they would not leave…

in other words, if they knew the Real Presence they would not leave…

this is one thing i am not happy with the RCC about… they don’t teach people TRUE & complete (orthodox/scirptural) CAtholicism… they seem to have the attitude that people will find their way without being taught or something… NOT true… as my life & others’ lives attest…

i have been Catholic all my life but it was LATE in the game before a priest told me about the benefits of spending serious time @ the RP…

and if i had known about that, i would not have left the Church… and gotten lost… committed sins that i am still paying for & others are also paying…

I pray ALL devout Catholics here will tell others about the RP… and everything else we Catholics have…

I’m confused by this? Christ forgave your sins. Are you saying that the ramifications of your sins hurt others? Is that what you mean?

 

[distracted]

I’m confused by this? Christ forgave your sins. Are you saying that the ramifications of your sins hurt others? Is that what you mean?

yes, that is what i am saying… I wasn’t catechized and it had a terirble ripple effect on all i came in contact with… God knew i was ignorant… but still, such a waste…

I just don’t understand why the Catholic Church doesn’t catechize it members very well… I am not the only one who thinks this by a long shot… I’ve met FEW CAtholics who were adequately catechized…

 

[jmcrae]

I’m confused by this? Christ forgave your sins. Are you saying that the ramifications of your sins hurt others? Is that what you mean?

Being forgiven of one’s sins does not cause one’s out-of-wedlock children suddenly to have happy, stable home lives, nor one’s ex-spouse to suddenly have a happy secure place in which to live, nor relationships and trust broken by addiction to suddenly be restored, nor one’s lost potiential to be restored and bank account to be filled up with the money that one should have been earning with the talents God gave you, instead of wasting one’s time and potential on sinful activities - these consequences remain, and the damage continues to ripple outward as those affected by our sins in turn, because of the damage we did to them, be less that what God had intended them to be, as well.

 

[Christalone]

They’re not using scriptural references, they’re interpreting the scriptures (using their traditions) to do that.

So as do catholics. So what’s your point?

 

[jmcrae]

So as do catholics. So what’s your point?

We have a Holy Tradition that is actually designed for this task, where if you contradict it, you get called out for it, and people set you straight.

Protestants don’t - they claim to follow “bible alone” but then they start interpolating the Scriptures willy-nilly, without anything to guide them in so doing, apart from a “burnin’ in the bosom” or some such thing where they “just know, that’s all!!”

 

[Christalone]

We have a Holy Tradition that is actually designed for this task, where if you contradict it, you get called out for it, and people set you straight.

Protestants don’t - they claim to follow “bible alone” but then they start interpolating the Scriptures willy-nilly, without anything to guide them in so doing, apart from a “burnin’ in the bosom” or some such thing where they “just know, that’s all!!”

Sorry but that is the furthest from the truth. We are guided through many different avenues, but un like catholics, we do not have any one other than God telling us what is right and wrong.

God is our only heirachy for he is the one and only infallible.

 

[jmcrae]

Sorry but that is the furthest from the truth. We are guided through many different avenues, but un like catholics, we do not have any one other than God telling us what is right and wrong.

And you know that that feeling or voice is God, and not just an echo of your own feelings or thoughts, because …

God is our only heirachy for he is the one and only infallible.

That’s very pretty, but it doesn’t really work in real life. In real life, we need the people that God has appointed to help us understand all these things - otherwise, we can end up deceiving ourselves.

 

[phoenix3212]

Sorry but that is the furthest from the truth. We are guided through many different avenues, but un like catholics, we do not have any one other than God telling us what is right and wrong.

God is our only heirachy for he is the one and only infallible.

But God can choose how to organize His church and establish a hierarchy if he so wished. He appointed Peter as chief apostle and as pope, and guided apostolic successors for the 400 years before the Bible was canonized by using tradition.