S
StubbleSpark
Guest
Drat! My internet filter won’t let me go there! They must spew a lot of filth for that to happen!
- Status
S
StubbleSpark
Guest
A couple more ideas about dealing with such people:
We know as Christians that God is omnipresent. So there is no place that we can truly call a “no-God’s Land”. But technically such a “place” does in fact “exist”.
Because God gave us all free will so that we may choose to love him, the soul of every human can choose to turn away from God, thus shutting him out. The rest of us accept him in varying degrees according to our spiritual gifts, charisms, love, and depth of repentance.
As apologists and evangelists (which I assume most of the people on this forum are), our job is to go to these badlands of the soul and see what light we can bring them. But keep in mind that some of these places, depending on the person in question, are darker and colder than the deepest blackness of outer space.
Though we have a duty to be evangelists, that is not quite how the Bible puts it. We are PROPHETS, PRIESTS, and KINGS.
Though we should not come to these places demanding respect, what ever little we get from our hosts demonstrates the degree to which they understand the innate dignity God affords human beings.
Their overly restrictive forum rules are meant to bind the hands of the believer while they kick that poor soul around in their hatred. More dignity is afforded a representative of a head of state with whom we are at war than in this den of hypocrites.
Like prophets driven from town, or kings slain in the dust, we must leave them be. Let them have their little victory dance over the supposed grave of Catholicism.
They would not be the first do this dance and unfortunately for them, historical precedence shows those who dance hardest are the ones destined for nonexistence. Isn’t that right, Puritans? … Hello? Puritans? Gnostics? Donatists? Shakers?
This is important to note because we worship the Maker – the one who brings things into existence. Those who align themselves against him risk their very being.
These former Catholics unified on nothing but anti-Catholicism are not winning over any new converts. This is in stark contrast with this forum, which time and again does win souls for Christ by direct invite to the unbeliever as well as by equipping other Catholics with the necessary tools to defend our 2000 year old faith.
These former Catholics are doomed by their very own philosophy to extinction. Bible alone means that nothing they themselves write concerning the meaning of Scripture will be preserved – to do so would be to hold to an extra-biblical teaching tradition.
(Of course, they already have at least two extra-biblical interpretive traditions. One would be the very idea of Sola Scriptura. The other would be the authoritative power of the KJV – none of these ideas are supported by the plain meaning of Scripture and are a source of debate even among Protestants.)
If their words are not to be kept, well this is the very definition of a clanging gong – a loud sound that slowly fades over time until there is nothing left at all.
Being former Catholics, none of them come from backgrounds that hold these views and my guess is that they will be unable to pass on these views to the next generation because they are so anti-Church and that means they are anti-family, anti-organization and anti-teacher (because the Church is family, organization, and teacher).
Because our faith is founded by Reality Himself we know that those who misunderstand our faith misread reality and are doomed to non-existence.
Until they can adopt more sincere rules of engagement like we have here, let them enjoy their gongs.
We know as Christians that God is omnipresent. So there is no place that we can truly call a “no-God’s Land”. But technically such a “place” does in fact “exist”.
Because God gave us all free will so that we may choose to love him, the soul of every human can choose to turn away from God, thus shutting him out. The rest of us accept him in varying degrees according to our spiritual gifts, charisms, love, and depth of repentance.
As apologists and evangelists (which I assume most of the people on this forum are), our job is to go to these badlands of the soul and see what light we can bring them. But keep in mind that some of these places, depending on the person in question, are darker and colder than the deepest blackness of outer space.
Though we have a duty to be evangelists, that is not quite how the Bible puts it. We are PROPHETS, PRIESTS, and KINGS.
Though we should not come to these places demanding respect, what ever little we get from our hosts demonstrates the degree to which they understand the innate dignity God affords human beings.
Their overly restrictive forum rules are meant to bind the hands of the believer while they kick that poor soul around in their hatred. More dignity is afforded a representative of a head of state with whom we are at war than in this den of hypocrites.
Like prophets driven from town, or kings slain in the dust, we must leave them be. Let them have their little victory dance over the supposed grave of Catholicism.
They would not be the first do this dance and unfortunately for them, historical precedence shows those who dance hardest are the ones destined for nonexistence. Isn’t that right, Puritans? … Hello? Puritans? Gnostics? Donatists? Shakers?
This is important to note because we worship the Maker – the one who brings things into existence. Those who align themselves against him risk their very being.
These former Catholics unified on nothing but anti-Catholicism are not winning over any new converts. This is in stark contrast with this forum, which time and again does win souls for Christ by direct invite to the unbeliever as well as by equipping other Catholics with the necessary tools to defend our 2000 year old faith.
These former Catholics are doomed by their very own philosophy to extinction. Bible alone means that nothing they themselves write concerning the meaning of Scripture will be preserved – to do so would be to hold to an extra-biblical teaching tradition.
(Of course, they already have at least two extra-biblical interpretive traditions. One would be the very idea of Sola Scriptura. The other would be the authoritative power of the KJV – none of these ideas are supported by the plain meaning of Scripture and are a source of debate even among Protestants.)
If their words are not to be kept, well this is the very definition of a clanging gong – a loud sound that slowly fades over time until there is nothing left at all.
Being former Catholics, none of them come from backgrounds that hold these views and my guess is that they will be unable to pass on these views to the next generation because they are so anti-Church and that means they are anti-family, anti-organization and anti-teacher (because the Church is family, organization, and teacher).
Because our faith is founded by Reality Himself we know that those who misunderstand our faith misread reality and are doomed to non-existence.
Until they can adopt more sincere rules of engagement like we have here, let them enjoy their gongs.
T
TPJCatholic
Guest
I was thinking about going over tehre to refute their argument that Baptism is not required. I even put together a list of Bible quotes from the KJ version. Here they are:
Baptism:
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. [Mark 16:16]
Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. [Matthew 3:13-17]
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of **water **and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. [John 3:5,22]
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:[Matthew 28:19]
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him. 1 Peter 3:18-22]
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Titus 3:5]
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. [Galatians 3:27]
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. [Acts 22:16]
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call. [Acts 2:38-39]
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: [Romans 6:3-5]
But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him. [Luke 7:30]
Baptism:
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. [Mark 16:16]
Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. [Matthew 3:13-17]
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of **water **and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. [John 3:5,22]
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:[Matthew 28:19]
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him. 1 Peter 3:18-22]
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Titus 3:5]
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. [Galatians 3:27]
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. [Acts 22:16]
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call. [Acts 2:38-39]
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: [Romans 6:3-5]
But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him. [Luke 7:30]
P
Photini
Guest
I dunno… you can try, but it just seems like you may be “casting your pearls before swine,” ya know? :nope:
Pray for 'em-- there’s hope. I’m living proof!
T
Toni
Guest
Great site for Scott Hahn to go to. He could convert them all. Me I was simply apalled.
B
BlindSheep
Guest
I’ve been posting there for a couple of days now. You should come on over; it’s fun! 
C
Celia
Guest
Wow, I had to leave after only a few minutes. Gets my blood pressure up! 
It’s sad…they are so far off from the real Truth. Their logic is completely screwy. There’s a poster on there asking really good, calm questions (is it you, Blind Sheep? 
) and they’re like screaming back at her with no real answers than a bunch of prejudiced garbage about what the “RCC *really *teaches” 
Then they accuse her of all sorts of things. They know nothing of what the church really is. I feel bad for them.
It’s sad…they are so far off from the real Truth. Their logic is completely screwy. There’s a poster on there asking really good, calm questions (is it you, Blind Sheep? ) and they’re like screaming back at her with no real answers than a bunch of prejudiced garbage about what the “RCC *really *teaches” Then they accuse her of all sorts of things. They know nothing of what the church really is. I feel bad for them.
M
Michael_Francis
Guest
CAF in no way encourages “board swarming”.
Do not, repeat, DO NOT, post links to that forum on this thread or I will be forced to close and pull it.
If you do not appreciate anti-Catholics swarming us here at CAF then consider how they will feel and how they will react if a bunch of you swarm them there. The result is often a “board war” and creates a moderation nightmare as well as doing no one any good.
Luke 6:31 And as you would that men should do to you, do you also to them in like manner.
Matthew 7:12 All things therefore whatsoever you would that men should do to you, do you also to them. For this is the law and the prophets.
Michael Francis
Do not, repeat, DO NOT, post links to that forum on this thread or I will be forced to close and pull it.
If you do not appreciate anti-Catholics swarming us here at CAF then consider how they will feel and how they will react if a bunch of you swarm them there. The result is often a “board war” and creates a moderation nightmare as well as doing no one any good.
Luke 6:31 And as you would that men should do to you, do you also to them in like manner.
Matthew 7:12 All things therefore whatsoever you would that men should do to you, do you also to them. For this is the law and the prophets.
Michael Francis
B
BlindSheep
Guest
Michael: 'm sorry, it was stupid of me to say “come on over”. You’re right; it would be wrong to “swarm” their board.
Celia: Thanks for the compliment (if it’s my posts you saw)! I’m trying to ignore the ad-hominem stuff. It’s just a distraction. I figure that, though the posters might not be receptive, I might post something that “plants a seed” for someone lurking on a forum like that one. Though honestly, I don’t know how long I can carry on being barraged with insults and not let it upset me.
Celia: Thanks for the compliment (if it’s my posts you saw)! I’m trying to ignore the ad-hominem stuff. It’s just a distraction. I figure that, though the posters might not be receptive, I might post something that “plants a seed” for someone lurking on a forum like that one. Though honestly, I don’t know how long I can carry on being barraged with insults and not let it upset me.
K
Kotton
Guest
Michael Francis:
Any criticizism of their interpetations is called refusing GOD’s word
I’ve been on that board years ago and their attitude has only become worse.
Yes, it’s better to not go there for posting and just pray for them.
Kotton
Michael, while I understand your point, it’s really not the same on that board. They would crow about the great number of Catholics coming to read their TRUTH. Their lies and discusting manner would cause the Catholics to leave and they would brag that God’s word isn’t accepted.
Any criticizism of their interpetations is called refusing GOD’s word
I’ve been on that board years ago and their attitude has only become worse.
Yes, it’s better to not go there for posting and just pray for them.
Kotton
S
sires6
Guest
yuck. How can those of Christ be so… and against each other, too? Yuck.
S
sires6
Guest
Upon further consideration, I see what is going on as more proof for the Catholic Church’s idea of salvation by grace through faith and works. These people say “Lord, Lord.” and yet, do not do… Is what they are doing wrong? Anyone who reads their visciousness can see it. Why can’t they?
S
Sherlock
Guest
Because, as Catholic convert and writer Mark Shea puts it, “Sin makes you stupid”. Pretty much sums it up…
C
Celia
Guest
You’re doing a great job so far. I think anyone reading it from the outside would appreciate your calm, cool stance versus their hyped-up, offering no real answers to your questions thing they got going on there. Anyway, good luck. And stay cool! They’re trying to refuse to see the Truth is all.
B
BlindSheep
Guest
That is one of the things that helped lead me to the Church; the contrast between the calm, reasonable way Catholics presented their ideas as opposed to the irrational approach of the protestants, on boards like this.
I think I’m getting to the root of what they hate about the Church…or what they *think *the Church is. It seems like a lot of these people were exposed to false “Catholic” doctrine in their parishes, or misunderstood what they were taught…a lot of them seem to have recieved bad advice from their priests, and there also seems to be a lot of fear directed toward the teaching authority of the magisterium and marian devotion as being “deceptions of the devil” - so these are the issues to especially focus on. To dispell their fears about the Pope as a “prince of this world” and Mary as “another Christ”, and to show why the bad advice they got did not represent the actual teachings of the Church - this is what would be needed to reach them. I tthink intellectual arguments are not enough, though - their fear that the Church will decieve them and make them practice idolatry needs to be dispelled.
C
Celia
Guest
Very true. :yup:
I’ve found that the majority of people that have left the church simply have a totally messed up idea of what it’s teachings actually are and mean. It’s sad really.
S
Silvertip
Guest
I posted there for a while in defense of our faith, but I had to leave because their site was making me feel like I needed to wash the slime off myself.
People like GloryBe and Buzzard are just complete ID 10 T s.
It really is useless to argue with people who won’t listen to anything you say simply because of who you are.
People like GloryBe and Buzzard are just complete ID 10 T s.
It really is useless to argue with people who won’t listen to anything you say simply because of who you are.
S
St.Eric
Guest
So true. I just left a forum that I was a long time member of. I had supposedly former Catholics ranting about how the church is “wrong.” Thing is, you could tell that if they were really former Catholics, they were never catechised. My suspiscion was that they were never really Catholics to begin with. One guy told me he had gone to Cahtolic school and was a catholic, all totalling 35 years. He then stated he is now 43 and a Baptist. He then stated that he had alsways been taught about “purgatory” and he now sees the the teaching of “limbo” is now being discarded. He thought the 2 teachings were one in the same. He also said that he was taght if he wore a scapular when he died he would not go to hell. It was laughable and sad at the same time. If he was a Catholic he got some bad educatioin. I suspect he wasn’t though…
M
malachi_a_serva
Guest
Hello again ST.Eric. Just to validate how this could happen. I thought “Limbo” and purgatory were one in the same. As well I thought that if I had the scapular I would not go to Hell. It has right on it “Those Wearing this Scapular shall not suffer Eternal Fire!” I wore it at times and carried it in my wallet for years (yes I realize that that invalidated its use and now that I have studied up on it realize its significance etc)…But at the time I thought it meant what it said. This story similarily reflects my experience.
S
system
Guest
What I don’t get is why or how the Former Catholics For Christ folks can be so devoted to the King James Version. King James was probably more “Catholic” than they think and probably repudiated some of the most important tenets of Fundamentalists, like a separation of church and state, believers baptism only and that by immersion, a non-sacramental view of salvation, two ordinances vs. seven sacraments, religious freedom, etc. The KJV itself was the product of people who could hardly be considered Fundamentalist and the King was the supreme head of the Church which is very evident in the version’s name.
- Status