M
marywarfield
Guest
Yes and no. Those who go believing he is supreme
truth no. Those who do not believe that yes.
I think. Which are you talking about? The Mary worshippers
or those that don’t?
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truth no. Those who do not believe that yes.
I think. Which are you talking about? The Mary worshippers
or those that don’t?
D
dronald
Guest
What I’m wondering is (besides Buddha isn’t a saint or anything) what are the main differences between their reverence for Buddha and your reverence for Mary?
When researching Buddhist beliefs I noticed the lighting of candles, the statues, the kneeling before statues, and asking Buddha for help without “worshiping him” are similar to Catholics and Mary.
So i’m wondering what the main differences are besides Buddhism being incorrect with regards to reverence?
M
marywarfield
Guest
Oh I have absolutely no idea as I’m not particularly
Buddhist fluent lol.
But my understanding is they don’t think Buddha is
God do they? Or do they?
D
dronald
Guest
Check this out: buddhanet.net/ans6.htm
There are different types of worship. When someone worships a god, they praise him or her, making offerings and ask for favours, believing that the god will hear their praise, receive their offerings and answer their prayers. Buddhists do not indulge in this kind of worship. The other kind of worship is when we show respect to someone or something we admire. When a teacher walks into a room we stand up, when we meet a dignitary we shake hands,when the national anthem is played we salute. These are all gestures of respect and worship and indicate our admiration for persons and things. This is the type of worship Buddhist practise. A statue of the Buddha with its hands rested gently in its lap and its compassionate smile reminds us to strive to develop peace and love within ourselves. The perfume of incense reminds us of the pervading influence of virtue, the lamp reminds us of light of knowledge and the flowers which soon fade and die, reminds us of impermanence. When we bow, we express our gratitude to the Buddha for what his teachings have given us. This is the nature of Buddhist worship.
There are different types of worship. When someone worships a god, they praise him or her, making offerings and ask for favours, believing that the god will hear their praise, receive their offerings and answer their prayers. Buddhists do not indulge in this kind of worship. The other kind of worship is when we show respect to someone or something we admire. When a teacher walks into a room we stand up, when we meet a dignitary we shake hands,when the national anthem is played we salute. These are all gestures of respect and worship and indicate our admiration for persons and things. This is the type of worship Buddhist practise. A statue of the Buddha with its hands rested gently in its lap and its compassionate smile reminds us to strive to develop peace and love within ourselves. The perfume of incense reminds us of the pervading influence of virtue, the lamp reminds us of light of knowledge and the flowers which soon fade and die, reminds us of impermanence. When we bow, we express our gratitude to the Buddha for what his teachings have given us. This is the nature of Buddhist worship.
M
marywarfield
Guest
Again what we are talking about is postures and incense.
Lots of people light incense that are atheists.
From the Catholic perception whether the Church
condemns a Mary goddess cult or not like the
Collyridians mentioned above is entirely dependent
on who they profess Mary to be.
For Catholics adoration is an interior disposition. If
interiorly you are perceiving Mary as a deity your
disposition is disordered.
If you recognize fully that she is not part of the Trinity
and have no intention of making her so your disposition
is well ordered.
It has nothing to do with kneeling, incense, lighting
candles etc.
Like I said a person can perform all the correct
postures of piety and still interiorly be worrying
about the cost of his car repairs. Lol.
The Church professes that God is God the Father,
God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.
Mary is only a saint. Now actually she is the queen of
saints the most venerated saint therefore queen of
heaven. But she is still just a saint like
Pope John Paul II or Francis of Assisi.
If you profess her to be anything else your views are disordered.
I’ll give you another example. I belong to a Marian order
meaning we believe Mary is our patron saint. We pray
rosaries while staring intently at the Exposed Eucharist.
We meditate and think about Jesus.
Our mouths say Hail Mary. This is well ordered.
On the other hand a few years ago a person brought
a statue of Mary from Manila and
claimed the statue was demanding morning offerings
of pineapples and bananas To keep her from destroying
the earth.
The Bishop condemned that group.
B
Brandall
Guest
I’ve been following this thread since the beginning and this is the most useful of any of the posts that I’ve seen. Though it’s barely on topic, it does remind us that the outward motions are useless unless they are a mirror of the inner. Thanks for sharing.
D
Doug_Kraeger
Guest
I want to honor Joseph and Mary exactly as God does, nothing more, nothing less. God as Creator of all things, all space and time and everything else, can have only one, single, infinite, always in the present tense thought, Word, and therefore God is always thinking only one single infinite thought and His way of Honoring Joseph and Mary does not change. Ln all that He did as man, Jesus Christ perfectly conformed His human will to God’s infinite, Divine Will and therefore revealed it. Jesus Christ honored Joseph and Mary with the love, honor and obedience of a perfect Son and that was God’s eternal changeless Will. If you want to contend that God’s will is transient in time, that God thinks one thing at one time but something else later on, make that explicit claim. My God has only one single infinite thought, Word, and He honors Joseph and Mary eternally as Jesus revealed. This is an unfathomable mystery and may be why Lucifer said “He would not serve”. Do you believe the teaching of the Catholic Church in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC 600) that all time is present in its immediacy to God and therefore 2000 years ago is always present to God?
CCC 314 states that “when we see God face to face and partial knowledge ceases” we will know all the ins and outs of God’s grace and I say then we will know how God did everything while eternally honoring Joseph and Mary the way Jesus revealed was God’s will while He lived in their home.
CCC 314 states that “when we see God face to face and partial knowledge ceases” we will know all the ins and outs of God’s grace and I say then we will know how God did everything while eternally honoring Joseph and Mary the way Jesus revealed was God’s will while He lived in their home.
D
Dorothy
Guest
Thank you for that excellent post, and welcome to CAF!
J
JM3
Guest
The difference is that Buddha is the object of their worship. In the veneration (worship) of the Blessed Virgin, God is the object, who is Father, Son and Spouse of the Blessed Virgin. She is God’s most perfect and pure creation and this is why the Holy Spirit made sure that her words were recorded for all ages, ‘My existence glorifies the Lord’ (Luke 1:46)(While the Latin and English say ‘magnifies’, the Greek can also be translated as ‘glorifies’).
Wisdom chapter 7
25 For she is a vapour of the power of God, and a certain pure emanation of the glory of the almighty God: and therefore no defiled thing cometh into her.
26 For she is the brightness of eternal light, and the unspotted mirror of God’s majesty, and the image of his goodness.
A
andrewstx
Guest
Buhdists (sp) do not worship Budha (sp) as a god, Buhdism is basically atheist. Their ultimate goal is Nirvana sinking into nothingness.
It is when Buddism blends with other religions like Shinto and Confusianism that the trouble begins.
It is when Buddism blends with other religions like Shinto and Confusianism that the trouble begins.
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benhur
Guest
Actually I am wondering about the kneeling for when it happens to non diety in scripture i think they are told to get up as being improper at least in spiritual sense (might be ok in earthly palaces). Can’t recall specific biblical instance-could be Peter and maybe to John in revelations.
S
SteveVH
Guest
Kneeling is nothing more than a posture of prayer. We pray to Mary, not in adoration, but in petition. As has already been said, it is our interior posture that is important. God reads our hearts.
M
marywarfield
Guest
This is a POSTURE. Those vary from rite to rite. For
instance during the Consecration in a Latin Rite.
Everyone kneels. Also they genuflect before the
tabernacle and exposed Eucharist. And genuflection
is ONLY for God.
When we kneel during the Consecration it’s because ALL
if Heaven is immediately present.
In the Eastern Rites they STAND. They don’t kneel.
And in stead of genuflecting they have three sort of bows
depending on how present God is.
A bow of the head, a bow from the waist, or full
prostration on the floor.
But they KISS their icons of Mary.
The point is it is irrelevant whether they, kneel,
sit, bow, prostrate themselves, make a sign of the Cross-
Tthese are man made gestures signifying supposedly
an interior disposition that ranges from respect all the
way to full adoration. None of them are DOGMA
and as I said they change.
The important thing is what the person’s intention
is.
And all of it is useless if you are thinking about your car
instead.
Primarily what these gestures are is humility.
A humble heart needs a way to express humility
before that which is holy before that which is
saintly and before GOD.
Without humility it really doesn’t matter if you stand
on your head does it?
B
Bernard_Lyons
Guest
1Peter3:6 "Even as Sara obeyed Abraham,calling him Lord,whose daughters ye are,as long as ye do well,and are not afraid with any amazement "Wow … what gymnastics you must be going through … though I get that your personal interpretation guides you … You have taken personal interpretation to new heights when the understanding [or how you understand the understanding] of those around Jesus is the determination of what a passage means … regardless of what the passage states -
You discount the clear meaning of scripture because Elizabeth may not have realized the fullness of what “my Lord” meant in relationship to the Jesus who was to come - to die - and to rise again?
I ask you - Who is the Lord being referred to by Elizabeth? The answer - the only answer is that the Lord is Jesus - it can be no other … Would Elizabeth have referred to any other child in the womb as ‘My Lord’? Answer - ‘No’ …Is the mother Mary or some other pregnant woman also within view? Answer - ‘Mary’ … Mary had no other child but Jesus …
Hi YADA,
Yes ,Elizabeth’s ‘Lord’ ( in Luke 1:43) is the Son of the most high ,the eternal Son of God:Christ,“come in the flesh” (1John 4:2).
But within the context of this chapter ,I believe ,this verse :“the mother of my Lord” ,shows not the same depth of understanding ,which is evidenced in both Elizabeth and Mary ,in regards to “the Lord” (verses36&46).
Would you agree that " the Lord "
In these verse’s refers to 'the Lord ,'that is ,God of the holy angel ,messenger to Mary ,that is before the incarnation?
Then if so ,do we not see Elizabeth continue her reference ( to “the Lord”) into the present and future tenses with these words?
“And blessed is she that believed:for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord” (Luke 1:45)
Then for me ,it is not to question of doubting the eternal origins of “that holy thing ,which shall be born”, that is, here seen to be in the womb of Mary,at that time,but what did Elizabeth ( and Mary) really understand,when Elizabeth says: “the mother of my Lord”.
As the same word is used by Sara in respect to Abraham( Lord) ,in 1Peter 3:6, then your “proof” verse ,proves nothing.
That is in the context of their understanding ,you would have to show both " my Lord" and
“the Lord”, to be what Elizabeth was in fact comprehending to be one and the same.
Not ,(which is only natural,)because we posses the facts( in the NT) automatically assume it to be so.
The Holy Spirit ( by the verse) did not reveal this as a fact ( in Elizabeth’s wording) but for you to have any substance to your " evidence" ,For me anyway, one would at least expect (showing the same understanding in the holy women) to see this verse unite at this very point,with such as:
“the mother of The Lord:my Lord”
M
marywarfield
Guest
I am really wondering after so many (to Catholics anyway)
irrelevant arguments put forth about Mary and
the Rosary or kneeling if those with questions
or concerns have ever actually read through an
actual Rosary with Meditations?
Since the current discussion concerns Mary’s visit
to Elizabeth I thought I would post a link
for the Joyful Mysteries.
catholicism.about.com/od/rosaryprayers/ss/Joyful-Mysteries-Of-The-Rosary.htm
It would be actually excellent if Benhur and Bernard
and the others took a quick read at the five Joyful
Mysteries before continuing. Since you are not praying
it but instead just reading it to understand what’s
going on in a Catholics brain when they pray it
it will only take you three or four minutes.
It is obvious from the discussion that some of you
have no idea at all what we believe or do concerning
Mary so it would be very considerate of you to grant me
this favor.
irrelevant arguments put forth about Mary and
the Rosary or kneeling if those with questions
or concerns have ever actually read through an
actual Rosary with Meditations?
Since the current discussion concerns Mary’s visit
to Elizabeth I thought I would post a link
for the Joyful Mysteries.
catholicism.about.com/od/rosaryprayers/ss/Joyful-Mysteries-Of-The-Rosary.htm
It would be actually excellent if Benhur and Bernard
and the others took a quick read at the five Joyful
Mysteries before continuing. Since you are not praying
it but instead just reading it to understand what’s
going on in a Catholics brain when they pray it
it will only take you three or four minutes.
It is obvious from the discussion that some of you
have no idea at all what we believe or do concerning
Mary so it would be very considerate of you to grant me
this favor.
M
marywarfield
Guest
Then quite rightly considering we are self interpreting
the Gospel here, you must also have doubts concerning
who Christ’s father was, correct? After all when Jesus was
lost at the Temple Joseph and Mary searched everywhere
in great sorrow and when He was found Mary said:
"“And his mother said to him: Son, why hast thou done so to us? behold thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing” (Luke 2:48). And then those wondrous words emerge from His lips, “Did you not know that I must be about my father’s business?”
What’s going on here? Read literally according to our
present standards this passage WOULD mean
that Joseph is Jesus’ dad in fact and Jesus wants
to join his Dad in the furniture making business.
D
dronald
Guest
Why do Catholics take the kneeling posture when asking Mary for help then?
What does it represent?
What does it represent?
M
marywarfield
Guest
Humility before that which God in His Wisdom
determined worthy to bear His Only Son.
D
dronald
Guest
Do you believe she wants people kneeling to her when asking her for prayers?
M
marywarfield
Guest
No I think God does. The way He expected Moses to
remove his sandals before approaching the burning
bush. In the same way God demands I revere any of His
sacred creations.
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