Former Catholics, Please Post Your Story Here

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ktm:
Where did the universe come from?
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Pittsburgh?
 
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darcee:
TOm,
Your presentation of LDS theology is WRONG. Your views about what your church teaches is very much different from what is taught within the wards and stakes of the Mormon faith. It is your own spin taken to a extreme. LDS men are promised Heavely increase and Godhood through exaltation in the Temple rites and that this will make God and God of gods. Your versions are takeoffs on these teachings. You might as well be starting your own faith.

It seems you have spent a lot of time making Mormon theology palatable to yourself, but what you have developed is almost unrecognizable.

You try to paint the Catholic Church and the LDS Church as being two sides f the same coin. They simply are not.
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Darcee,

No, it is you who are wrong.

I do not see equality between the Catholic Church and the CoJCoLDS. I see the CoJCoLDS as having a superior position to the Catholic Church. I see a number of differences too, but I do focus on similarities a lot. Joseph Smith who grew up in a protestant environment with perhaps no exposure to 7 sacraments, saved by grace through faith and works, authoritative interpretation of scripture, authority to lead congregations, deification, and a number of other non-Protestant ideas; developed a church that was more similar to the Catholic Church than the churches that broke off and change 300 years before. That his church which is really His church is witnessed in the ECF is even more amazing.

If the CoJCoLDS is God’s true church. If the prophet is God’s representative on earth, you and ex-LDS are clearly deceived. Your witness that I do not know my faith or that I have created another faith is logically of little value.

I share much of what I believe with other LDS. (two days ago as part of home teaching I taught my ideas associated with “their creeds are an abomination.”) I know very clearly what LDS can and cannot believe. It is my opinion that many an ex-LDS left the church refusing to believe something that really was not something they needed to embrace. Many ex-LDS fall when they find that the prophets have not been perfect theologically. Many ex-LDS fal when they find that the prophets have not been perfect morally. Many ex-LDS fall when the view of Mormonism they have built up in their mind seems to conflict with something in the Bible, BOM, or …. These folks are the folks that left a straw man representation of their faith. Not me.

Charity, TOm
 
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ktm:
I expected as much. The truth is you have no answer to this question, nor does any agnostic or atheist.
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Well, the universe is pretty big, and I know a lot of big guys from Pittsburgh, so it made sense that it came from Pittsburgh. But if you say it came from Tallahassee, I’m willing to take your word for it.

KTM, you have a hard time taking a hint. You claimed you started this thread because you wanted to understand why Catholics left the church. I told you why I left.

You now seem to want to debate the validity of the reasons I left. You are welcome to do that all you like, but you’re going to have to do it without me. If it will help you feel better, I will admit that I am ignorant, apostate, hell-bound, tacky, snide, and generally lacking in manners, common sense, and tact.

I will also admit that you won the debate. I did not explain where the universe came from. You win the prize.
 
Auberon Quin:
You now seem to want to debate the validity of the reasons I left. You are welcome to do that all you like, but you’re going to have to do it without me. If it will help you feel better, I will admit that I am ignorant, apostate, hell-bound, tacky, snide, and generally lacking in manners, common sense, and tact.
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No need for this kind of talk. If you wanted to stop debating, all you had to do was let the thread die on its own, sheesh.

Best wishes,

Kevin
 
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darcee:
You try to paint the Catholic Church and the LDS Church as being two sides f the same coin. They simply are not.
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BTW, I have a Catholic friend (not on this board) who has stated that his purpose is to show that the CoJCoLDS has not introduced so many restored concepts into Christianity. He has argued that the similarities that exist do not witness to a need for a restoration. He puts forth similarities in Trinity concepts and deification ideas.

Charity, TOm
 
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ktm:
No need for this kind of talk. If you wanted to stop debating, all you had to do was let the thread die on its own, sheesh.
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What, and let you get the last word?

Perish the thought.
 
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ktm:
Best wishes
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You deserve a better response than the one you think I gave you.

Look at my post #39 in this thread, which actually was a serious response. I believe that the things I listed there – the things of day-to-day existence – are what should be occupying my attention.

I don’t know where the universe came from. I don’t even know whether it came from anything, just always was, or is a figment of my deluded and hyperactive imagination. It just doesn’t matter, though. The important things are the things I listed in that post. Those are the things I have to do as well as I can, with attention and compassion.

I do not have to figure out where the universe came from. The question does not interest me. I do have to figure out how to get the ticks off the dog and what to feed a child who has decided that he is only going to eat foods that begin the letter “M.” (Calling it “meat” does not work. He says it’s chicken.)
 
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chrisg93:
Binky,
…you left us wondering as to what untrue doctrines and lost credability you speak of. … I would be interested in learning more about your specific objections to the Catholic Church.

Thanks
Chris G
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Chris:
I know the polemics of this Catholic/ Evangelical-Fundamentalist debate so well that I can pretty much argue either side of the case in my sleep, and while I am sure you don’t wish to “rip” me, I know how these things usually unfold. As the question was , in essence, “Why did you leave?” as opposed to, “What did you find objectionable within the Catholic Church?”, I tried to confine it to that. I wanted neither to start an apologetics fight, nor earn a patronizing pat on the head about “journeys home”; only to explain why I left the RCC.
**Again, there came a time when I had to make a decision. I don’t apologize for, or regret, that decision, and I have tried to relate it with as little rancor as possible. But, perhaps the apologetics forum is a better place to address the doctrinal and historical issues. I prefer to leave such discussions to others, asI am reluctant to go down that road within a Roman Catholic venue, lest I be accused of being ungracious: I am, after all, a visitor here. **
 
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TOmNossor:
Darcee,
No, it is you who are wrong.
I share much of what I believe with other LDS. (two days ago as part of home teaching I taught my ideas associated with “their creeds are an abomination.”) I know very clearly what LDS can and cannot believe. It is my opinion that many an ex-LDS left the church refusing to believe something that really was not something they needed to embrace. Many ex-LDS fall when they find that the prophets have not been perfect theologically. Many ex-LDS fal when they find that the prophets have not been perfect morally. Many ex-LDS fall when the view of Mormonism they have built up in their mind seems to conflict with something in the Bible, BOM, or …. These folks are the folks that left a straw man representation of their faith. Not me.
Charity, TOm
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I did not fall when I left the Mormon church. the LDSs teach that God was once a man, that exalted men can become Gods, that there is at least one Heavenly Mother, that creeds of non-LDS churches are an abomination. The LDS church has inconsistent teachings… what one prophet declares as inviolate the next might contravene.

You have built an interesting version of Mormon teaching, but it is NOT what you would get in a gospel doctrine class nor is it what you would get in the temple ceremonies. You might say that one is not “required” to believe all that you are taught but I would say what is the point of belonging to a church with so much false teaching that you have to shift through everything that is said by leaders who are hailed as prophets, seers and revelators just to find the small bits that are true?
-D
 
Auberon Quin:
I get up in the morning. I put the dog out. I meditate, or sometimes I do my karate warm-ups on the deck. I let the dog in. I feed the fish. I wake the kids up and get them moving. I shower and get dressed. I make sure the kids get to the bus stop.

I go to work and do my job.

I come home. I make dinner, play with the kids, put the dog out again, and feed the cat. I take the kids to karate, and maybe I go myself, or run instead. I talk with Mrs. Quin. We put the kids in bed. I read or do chores, then I go to sleep.

(repeat)
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Auberon Quin

Your day sounds very much like mine, except I’m the Mrs. in our household. The depressing thing at the end was when you put “repeat”. Why do you do these things over and over, day in and day out? To what end? Yes, I know your family needs to be cared for and you are doing your part. That’s wonderful. But what then? Faith gives hope - and my hope is an eternal life with God and my loved ones. Did you ever consider that you are responsible not just for the lives of your family, but that they are eternal lives?
 
Auberon Quin:
You deserve a better response than the one you think I gave you.
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Dear Auberon,

Thank you for taking the time to write your messages. I apologize for not treating you with proper respect and for upsetting you.

See you around the boards,

Kevin
 
Hi Binky,

I appreciate you reserved reply. The original post did ask to understand the reason you left the Church so I didn’t think you would mind my question.

Your latest reply referenced Evangelical Christianity, which your first reply did not, so I get the picture now.

Thanks for participating and God Speed.

Chris G
 
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TOmNossor:
As I struggled with some things, I emerged with the somewhat spiritual, somewhat logical conviction that God the Father wanted me to be like him. He wanted to deify me. God became man that I might become God, deified.
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You can give it up right now. Between humans and Gods an impassable gulf is fixed. Humans are not Gods, nor they can ever become ones. Wishing to become a God is hubris, which is a grave sin that leads to ruin.
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ArisSlatr:
I am here to show you what I have learned in my time of this planet, and to explain why hope can be found without a higher power. Why god is not needed, and why people can be good without the help of someone more powerful.
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I wish you wouldn’t. Many people are perfectly happy in their religion and would be in distress without it. It’s really none of your business what other people believe, unless they start acting on your expense.
 
Little Mary:
Why do you do these things over and over, day in and day out? To what end? Yes, I know your family needs to be cared for and you are doing your part. That’s wonderful. But what then? Faith gives hope - and my hope is an eternal life with God and my loved ones. Did you ever consider that you are responsible not just for the lives of your family, but that they are eternal lives?
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The end is that the kids are fed, the dog is de-ticked, the work is done, and so on. When I am hungry, I eat. When I am tired, I sleep. What does “what then?” have to do with any of it?
 
Auberon Quin:
The end is that the kids are fed, the dog is de-ticked, the work is done, and so on. When I am hungry, I eat. When I am tired, I sleep. What does “what then?” have to do with any of it?
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I asked “what then” because to me all of those things are things we all do to live - pay the mtg., raise the children, care for the pets, eating , sleeping - they are everyday things, survival, if you will.

If you are content with that - eat, sleep, die - then that’s OK. For me, after those things are done, I see much, much more in store for my life and for those around me - spiritually I mean - and I hope for the best. That’s what I meant by “hope” and “what then”.

I guess I was only focusing on what I see vs. what you see (thank God)!
 
Binky Brown said:
Knowing full well that a thread of this type usually degenerates into a “let’s lay into the apostate” feeding frenzy, here goes:
I ultimately left the RCC because it seemed like a more intellectually honest thing to do than to maintain an association with an institution whose claims no longer held credibility, whose doctines flew in the face of biblical admonitions to the contrary, and whose members’ lives came nowhere near to the standards of godliness .
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I have separated myself from the Church and I suppose I am in what Patrick Madrid on EWTN called a “limbo” existence. I simply cannot maintain active participation in the diocese of Saginaw which was seriously damaged by the recently deceased Bishop, who did not teach authentically and who encouraged a lot of experimentation in the rubrics of the Mass. Just today I dispatched a letter to the Apostolic Nuncio, who filters the candidates to succeed this bishop, and registered my hope that Rome would send us an orthodox, holy bishop to repair the severely damaged church of Saginaw.

It was one thing to live through Vatican II Council and see that there were differing opinions among the bishops, but it is another thing to have to live and worship in what is, in effect, a protestant church – a church (meaning the diocese) where the pronouncements of the Pope are openly criticized and questioned. Canon Law and Mass rubrics often give options or alternates or give unspecified options and the late bishop drove us right through every one he could find – to make some point or other.

His dissension from the Church was expressed almost exclusively outside the diocese, such that the local Catholic newspaper basically carried none of it, whereas the National Catholic Reporter covered all of his dissension, over the years.

To me, it was simply a practical matter that I couldn’t take the stress of it anymore. I haven’t left the faith or the Church; it just simply doesn’t exist here, but rather one masquerading as the Holy Church. 😦
 
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briand:
I was baptized a Catholic, my mother was Catholic, my father was told he had to be Catholic to merry her. I truly wanted to be a good Christian, of course this has no meaning at all. I add it to try to point out that I was sincere, though often I have been called a liar. I had to wait to go to my first communion because of an accident that left me in the hospital for over a year, again irrelevant but offered for why I was waiting. When I went to my first communion I could not read, Learning disabilities, another charactor flaw to be sure, but I learned the prayers by having them repeated to me over an over again.

As I was preparing for my first communion I started watching WCG broadcast on TV, the images scared the heck out of me, another Charactor flaw to be sure. At my first communion I did not know what to do, some just said make up something for the priest, I did not wish to. As I understand it as this story is told to me because others were there, me and my mother were chased out of the church by the priest because I said I could no go to confession, of course I was 9 years old and full of charactor flaws by this time. He caused us out and chased me out of my holy communion. Most people tell me Im a liar, I dont know what I would gain by lying but so be it.

Many years later I talked to this preist, another vile charactor flaw, as often pointed out to me by christians, and we reconiled. I have become convinced that there is no way to come home, where ever home is. I know that to is a charactor flaw. This and almost every other single christian experience I have had has lead me to believe in the utter fulitlity of trying. Of course this to is a charactor flaw. I dont wish to offend, I have often asked what to do, what is the gospel and so on. I have great hope for the Christian faith, but being a reprobates soul from the foundations of the Earth, and an eternal enemy of God it is hard to believe that applies to me. Agian a Charactor flaw.
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Dear Briand,

#1 Go to confession and tell the Priest everything.

#2 Go to mass on a regular bases.

#3 Recieve the sacraments (confession and communion) on a regular bases.

If indeed these are charictor flaws, recieving the sacraments will help you in getting rid of them.

Pax
John
 
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TOmNossor:
BTW, I have a Catholic friend (not on this board) who has stated that his purpose is to show that the CoJCoLDS has not introduced so many restored concepts into Christianity. He has argued that the similarities that exist do not witness to a need for a restoration. He puts forth similarities in Trinity concepts and deification …

Charity, TOm
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Dear TOm,

The truth remains though that no where in Church teachings or Tradition do these concepts appear.

In order to have proof, you would need to tell what Apostle taught this and the succeeding teachers.

The point is that Christ wants us all in heaven, not as Gods. How indeed can we become a God if we were created?

Pax
John
 
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