Former Catholics...

[vocatio]

If you have left the Church either now or before returning, did you officially renounce the Church by submitting a letter to your bishop? If so why? And if not why not?

Did you know that the Catholic Church will always consider you a Catholic as long as you do not officially defect from Catholic Church by submitting a letter. I was officially baptized in a Protestant Church and the Catholic Church still did not reconize that as an official defection. I was still considered Catholic…which made coming back home much easier too. So if that is a door you want to leave open I guess you can. But if you’re brave enough to tallk about it, then please do. No body’s reason could ever trump mine, unless you were killed of course.

 

[cheddarsox]

When I left Catholicism, I didn’t know about sending a letter to a Bishop. I had never heard how to officially renounce the church, it wasn’t something I was taught growing up. What I was taught was once a Catholic always a Catholic, that Baptism left an idellible mark, so my understanding was that no matter what I did or didn’t do, I would be considered part of the Catholic church, by the church and other Catholics, till I die.

It was some number of decades later that I found out about the official renunciation. If I had left over some particular issue or event, or in a dither of anger or deep hurt, perhaps such an act might have provided some sort of symbolic closure for me, and have been cathartic. But really, at this point it seems meaningless. Letter or no, as far as the Church is concerned I have that mark on my soul. Maybe they would stop counting me on their statistics?

It doesn’t matter enough for me to go back and go through the bother now.

 

[Mickey]

Did you know that the Catholic Church will always consider you a Catholic as long as you do not officially defect from Catholic Church by submitting a letter.

Wow! That must mean that the Catholic count is terribly over inflated.

 

[JugglingReferee]

Wow! That must mean that the Catholic count is terribly over inflated.

Doesn’t the Orthodox church keep FBI-like records on every human on the planet, just like the Vatican does?

 

[Mickey]

Doesn’t the Orthodox church keep FBI-like records on every human on the planet, just like the Vatican does?

No.

 

[c659smith]

When I left Catholicism, I didn’t know about sending a letter to a Bishop. I had never heard how to officially renounce the church, it wasn’t something I was taught growing up. What I was taught was once a Catholic always a Catholic, that Baptism left an idellible mark, so my understanding was that no matter what I did or didn’t do, I would be considered part of the Catholic church, by the church and other Catholics, till I die.

It was some number of decades later that I found out about the official renunciation. If I had left over some particular issue or event, or in a dither of anger or deep hurt, perhaps such an act might have provided some sort of symbolic closure for me, and have been cathartic. But really, at this point it seems meaningless. Letter or no, as far as the Church is concerned I have that mark on my soul. Maybe they would stop counting me on their statistics?

It doesn’t matter enough for me to go back and go through the bother now.

So you deny Jesus Christ and Him being the Son of Man. You deny the Holy Spirit?

You deny He came down from heaven, was crucified, died, and was buried, rose again, and ascended into heaven?

You deny he died for the forgiveness of your sins.

 

[HashemEchad]

If you have left the Church either now or before returning, did you officially renounce the Church by submitting a letter to your bishop? If so why? And if not why not?

Did you know that the Catholic Church will always consider you a Catholic as long as you do not officially defect from Catholic Church by submitting a letter. I was officially baptized in a Protestant Church and the Catholic Church still did not reconize that as an official defection. I was still considered Catholic…which made coming back home much easier too. So if that is a door you want to leave open I guess you can. But if you’re brave enough to tallk about it, then please do. No body’s reason could ever trump mine, unless you were killed of course.

Many years ago, in NY, I knew a woman who was born Jewish and had become Catholic. She left the Catholic church after doing some research into Jewish history, Scriptures, etc via an exit organization I was involved with at the time.

Anyway, I do remember her sending a letter to the Cardinal in NY (I forget who it was at the time), telling him she wanted to be excommunicated because she had left the RCC.

 

[HashemEchad]

I have a friend visiting my home right now, who is a former Catholic who has converted to Judaism. He just gave me another reason why some former Catholics might not send a letter to the Bishop, asking to be removed as members of the church.

In my friend’s case, he owns a cemetery plot in an Archdiocesan-run cemetery, and family members are already buried there. He is concerned that if he gives formal notice, they will force him to disinter the bodies and/or sell the plot back to the cemetery (only Catholics can own plots in Archdiocesan-owned Catholic cemeteries.)

Is this a possibilility? If so, it could explain one reason why some ex-Catholics might not want to stick their heads too high above the parapet on this one. Just a thought.

 

[Minnie31]

If you have left the Church either now or before returning, did you officially renounce the Church by submitting a letter to your bishop? If so why? And if not why not?

Did you know that the Catholic Church will always consider you a Catholic as long as you do not officially defect from Catholic Church by submitting a letter.

I left the church many years ago and thought about how to formally remove myself, but I didn’t know how to go about doing it at the time.

 

[vocatio]

Wow! That must mean that the Catholic count is terribly over inflated.

You know I’ve thought about that and would love to see the real numbers. My current understanding is that 10% of Catholic leave or stop claiming to be Catholic. I’m not sure. But it is a valid question to ask I think.

67 Million in the United States, not counting Orthodox. Somewhere between 1 and 1.2 Billion world wide. About 250 Million Orthodox world wide.

 

[vocatio]

Doesn’t the Orthodox church keep FBI-like records on every human on the planet, just like the Vatican does?

Yes, we know that only the select members of Opus Dei act as the Vatican’s Secret Agent man. And the Jesuits are hit men [Watched the Tutor’s lately?]

And the Vatican is tracking everyProtestant since they broke form Rome. Better watch your credit cards. All of your credit will be ruined once the Vatican decides to make is move to…To…TAKE OVER THE WORLD [Pinky and the Brain voice].

 

[vocatio]

Many years ago, in NY, I knew a woman who was born Jewish and had become Catholic. She left the Catholic church after doing some research into Jewish history, Scriptures, etc via an exit organization I was involved with at the time.

Anyway, I do remember her sending a letter to the Cardinal in NY (I forget who it was at the time), telling him she wanted to be excommunicated because she had left the RCC.

From my understanding, that is exactly what you are requesting and why it must be thought through carefully. However, getting reinstated is not out of reach but from what I understand takes time. I just don’t know the actual process. I feared that when I returned that I’d have to wait years. Since I did not “officially defect” I just had to go to confession. It was a very wet moment for the priest. I balled like a baby. 17 years away.

 

[HashemEchad]

From my understanding, that is exactly what you are requesting and why it must be thought through carefully. However, getting reinstated is not out of reach but from what I understand takes time. I just don’t know the actual process. I feared that when I returned that I’d have to wait years. Since I did not “officially defect” I just had to go to confession. It was a very wet moment for the priest. I balled like a baby. 17 years away.

Actually, until this woman did that, I didn’t realize you COULD send a letter, asking to be excommunicated! I thought you just did it, and if you returned to the church, you just went to confession.

Maybe she didn’t realize a letter is required either; I think she did it because she was just so angry at the Catholic church, and wanted to “make a point” somehow. At least that was the impression I’d gotten at the time.

 

[vocatio]

I’m curious. Why do you hang out on the Catholic forums then. I know why I do…to proselytize you…no just kidding. I’m learning and sharing what I’ve learned. I hope that someone out there sees my posts and realizes that the Church leadership even realizes it’s mistakes from the past and is working hard [but not hard enough to at least some] at correcting its mistakes like catechesis. The clergy scandals opened the eyes of a lot of people and in many ways may end up being the scandal that opens up a healthier dialog within the Church. That’s my dumb opinion anyway.

 

[HashemEchad]

I’m curious. Why do you hang out on the Catholic forums then. I know why I do…to proselytize you…no just kidding. I’m learning and sharing what I’ve learned. I hope that someone out there sees my posts and realizes that the Church leadership even realizes it’s mistakes from the past and is working hard [but not hard enough to at least some] at correcting its mistakes like catechesis. The clergy scandals opened the eyes of a lot of people and in many ways may end up being the scandal that opens up a healthier dialog within the Church. That’s my dumb opinion anyway.

Actually, I’m probably not going to be here much longer. I first showed up a few months ago because I was Googling some old Holy Week customs my late mother (a former catholic turned Orthodox Jew) had once told me about. That Google search led me to this forum, where I found a thread discussing it.

Once I was here, I looked around, saw some threads about trying to convert Jews to Catholicism, and because I’ve been an exit counselor/countermissionary for about 30 years now, it piqued my interest (I have also lurked/posted on forums for “messianic jews” and other Christian missionaries for the same reason.

 

[vocatio]

Actually, until this woman did that, I didn’t realize you COULD send a letter, asking to be excommunicated! I thought you just did it, and if you returned to the church, you just went to confession.

Maybe she didn’t realize a letter is required either; I think she did it because she was just so angry at the Catholic church, and wanted to “make a point” somehow. At least that was the impression I’d gotten at the time.

You see I can relate. But I was studying Vatican Council II documents and had read in some other documents that all you had to do was make a public act of denouncing the Catholic faith…like baptism, which is what I did. At the time I didn’t know what I’ve discovered now. I still get angry about feeling deceived, and I probably was in some ways. But it was the laity and illicit clergy and religious that were running amuck interpreting the VCII and either lying or teaching false doctrine that really through me off so much. As I read the historical documents I felt deceived and that I wasn’t truly Catholic and if I don’t know the truth about what it teaches how could I be Catholic. Actually that only helps with culpability of the sin of leaving the Church for a Protestant faith. I really thought I did the right thing at the time. We do exist you know… I hear pride this and that. That’s only partly true. There is such a thing as self-preservation. I was in protection mode not knowing who to trust all those years. That’s why bible only felt so right or safe at the time.

 

[vocatio]

Actually, I’m probably not going to be here much longer. I first showed up a few months ago because I was Googling some old Holy Week customs my late mother (a former catholic turned Orthodox Jew) had once told me about. That Google search led me to this forum, where I found a thread discussing it.

Once I was here, I looked around, saw some threads about trying to convert Jews to Catholicism, and because I’ve been an exit counselor/countermissionary for about 30 years now, it piqued my interest (I have also lurked/posted on forums for “messianic jews” and other Christian missionaries for the same reason.

That’s very interesting. I assume you are born Jewish or how would one say that? I believe there is a fundamental difference between true Catholicism and Fundamentalism [Messianic Jews]. But that thread has been beat to death. I’m interested in talking here about my original post.

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut. I’ve been dabbling in learning about Orthodox Judaism. I realy love the similarities or how orthodox Catholicism/Orthodoxy are reflected in Jewish Liturgy. I’m still not able to carry on an intelligent conversation on the subject. But I do see how our Liturgy of the Eucharist is historically based on the Passover.

 

[HashemEchad]

You see I can relate. But I was studying Vatican Council II documents and had read in some other documents that all you had to do was make a public act of denouncing the Catholic faith…like baptism, which is what I did. At the time I didn’t know what I’ve discovered now. I still get angry about feeling deceived, and I probably was in some ways. But it was the laity and illicit clergy and religious that were running amuck interpreting the VCII and either lying or teaching false doctrine that really through me off so much. As I read the historical documents I felt deceived and that I wasn’t truly Catholic and if I don’t know the truth about what it teaches how could I be Catholic. Actually that only helps with culpability of the sin of leaving the Church for a Protestant faith. I really thought I did the right thing at the time. We do exist you know… I hear pride this and that. That’s only partly true. There is such a thing as self-preservation. I was in protection mode not knowing who to trust all those years. That’s why bible only felt so right or safe at the time.

I’m quite familiar with Catholic doctrine and dogma (I’ve studied all the major faiths due to my involvement in ecumenism), and one thing I know: baptism is regarded as a sacrament that cannot be removed. So this means that even if someone is excommunicated (whether by a church official or latae sententiae), they remain baptized, right?

As for me, I’m born Jewish, yes. My mother converted to Judaism in 1944 and I was born about 16 years later.

 

[vocatio]

I’m quite familiar with Catholic doctrine and dogma (I’ve studied all the major faiths due to my involvement in ecumenism), and one thing I know: baptism is regarded as a sacrament that cannot be removed. So this means that even if someone is excommunicated (whether by a church official or latae sententiae), they remain baptized, right?

Yes. You are correct. Once anyone is baptized they receive and indelible mark on their soul and it remains forever whether they want it or not.

As for me, I’m born Jewish, yes. My mother converted to Judaism in 1944 and I was born about 16 years later.

I suspected. It seems you can tell by the tone in someones post. The culture is very different between Catholics and Protestants. And I could see you seemed different. But that is difficult to tell on the boards. Thanks for your friendly posts here.

You know, Catholics typically do not Proselytize. It is NOT our way. But I’m sure they’re out there. We prefer that someone after seeing the evidence either accept it or reject it on their own accord. My favorite Catholic personality right now is starting her own religoius order. She went from Jewish to Protestant to Catholic. You probably know who I’m talking about.

 

[HashemEchad]

Yes. You are correct. Once anyone is baptized they receive and indelible mark on their soul and it remains forever whether they want it or not.

I suspected. It seems you can tell by the tone in someones post. The culture is very different between Catholics and Protestants. And I could see you seemed different. But that is difficult to tell on the boards. Thanks for your friendly posts here.

You know, Catholics typically do not Proselytize. It is NOT our way. But I’m sure they’re out there. We prefer that someone after seeing the evidence either accept it or reject it on their own accord. My favorite Catholic personality right now is starting her own religoius order. She went from Jewish to Protestant to Catholic. You probably know who I’m talking about.

I know who you mean; I was actually a neighbor of her brother’s, many years ago, when he still lived in NY. I want to thank you for your honesty as to the path her conversion took: I have met Catholics who were not so honest, and tried to tell me she went directly from Judaism to Catholicism (unfortunately for them, I knew of her and actually knew her brother David!)

Its extremely unusual for Jews to voluntarily convert to Catholicism directly; in my years of exit counseling I’ve only encountered 3 who did it that way. The other few went via Protestantism, which makes more sense to me.