Former Catholics...

[Keikiolu]

I’m 15, and I left the church two weeks ago as a result of these forums and deep research, actually. It all started with me reading about the origin of evil, somewhere on this forum, and the poster replying something along the lines of, “Lucifer decided not to serve God, and he fell out of the heavens into hell…”

The origin of evil is the bad choices of man. Is that what you learned?

Anyway, it sounded like much of a fairy tale, or story to me.

You seem the intelligent sort…! Have you ever read the catechism?

It’s not much of a story, which seems like what you DON’T want, and is more an explanation of core beliefs, which may be more to your “technical” liking.

I started reading both sides of the argument, of say, free will. I read arguments for why God exists and why the Christian God does not exist. The arguments for the latter make much more sense to me.

The Christian side of the argument is that God exists because everything says He soes. The “other side” of the argument is that God doesn’t exist because the universe says He’s not necessary. You’ll quickly notice, with your intrinsic brightness, that both beliefs are based on faith.

The question is what you want out of your chosen faith?

Now, I’m agnostic - or perhaps Deist, since I believe God probably was the cause of the big bang, but is not involved in everyday life. I’m still searching, though.

Keep searching…!!

It WILL lead you to the truth.

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.

 

[qui_est_ce]

I’d be REALLY interested in what about “Christianity” you “just don’t believe in”…!

The wiccan deities are “demons and angels”, though mostly demons.

I’ve moved from where you are to where I am, as an ex-wiccan-oid (celtic mostly), by way of realizing (finally) the silly “in-fighting” between the gods, which is a necessary quality of them, and a great “convincer” (to me) of the internal “energy wasting” (friction) which points AWAY from “the gods” being the REAL face of deity.

’

Good answers to both. Do you really believe these people? Do you even think they will be back to discuss? I had fun reading your replies, though.

 

[Keikiolu]

Good answers to both. Do you really believe these people? Do you even think they will be back to discuss? I had fun reading your replies, though.

I don’t care if I believe them or not.

I’ll take them for what they say until they prove themselves totally ridiculous and unworthy of further conversation.

My comments are entirely selfish,… I just like to comment on what is presented to me, and that’s where I get my enjoyment in this wacky “arena of blithering fools who like to prove that fools can occassionally be interesting as well as foolish.”

If they come back to further the conversation, that would be lovely.

If they don’t,… they lose an opportunity to disprove their idiocy.

In any case,… I’ve already had my fun,… so I’ll just go find another table to try my hand at makin’ that ellusive flush hand, which I have YET to draw to, darn it.

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.

 

[royal]

I’m 15, and I left the church two weeks ago as a result of these forums and deep research, actually. It all started with me reading about the origin of evil, somewhere on this forum, and the poster replying something along the lines of, “Lucifer decided not to serve God, and he fell out of the heavens into hell…”

Anyway, it sounded like much of a fairy tale, or story to me. I started reading both sides of the argument, of say, free will. I read arguments for why God exists and why the Christian God does not exist. The arguments for the latter make much more sense to me.

Now, I’m agnostic - or perhaps Deist, since I believe God probably was the cause of the big bang, but is not involved in everyday life. I’m still searching, though.

If it makes more sense to you that God does not exist, then how do you explain your existance? Did you come from an egg?

 

[BrewMax]

Why did you leave the Church? I am curious because I often hear of people that have a bad experience occur in the Church OR in their personal lives then they either get much closer to the Church or they turn away.

What is your story?

I’m just about to leave it. I have been joining my wife and my son in their church (Anglican) on Sunday mornings. The priest is much more in tune with the parish and the parishioners are much more educated on their faith. It’s great to be together with my family for church. I cannot buy into the Catholic church 100% anymore. The Marian doctrines, The Authority of the pope and much of the church discipline I do not believe is truth. Anglicanism isn’t 100% perfect either, but I believe that it is much more the church that Jesus founded. Besides, the Anglican mass is almost identical to the Catholic mass. Very little difference.

 

[qui_est_ce]

I’m just about to leave it. I have been joining my wife and my son in their church (Anglican) on Sunday mornings. The priest is much more in tune with the parish and the parishioners are much more educated on their faith. It’s great to be together with my family for church. I cannot buy into the Catholic church 100% anymore. The Marian doctrines, The Authority of the pope and much of the church discipline I do not believe is truth. Anglicanism isn’t 100% perfect either, but I believe that it is much more the church that Jesus founded. Besides, the Anglican mass is almost identical to the Catholic mass. Very little difference.

Now that explains everything, I have been following your posts, wondering where you are coming from.

I am divorced. I would like to be Anglican so I can marry again. It would be so easy to join the Anglican church so I could marry again and still participate in the Sacraments.

Oh wait, they wash the Body and Blood of Christ into the sewer lines…oh, now there is a schism regarding the ordination of gay priests and bishops…

Which Anglican denomination are you going to join? I have a lot of respect for the Anglican Church, but the Episcopalians in the US are beginning to join the “feel good” theology of the Evangelical Fundamentalists.

I maintain the Catholic Christian Church is an “Inconvenient Truth.”
and Al Gore is not the inventor of Inconvenient Truths.

 

[BrewMax]

Now that explains everything, I have been following your posts, wondering where you are coming from.

I am divorced. I would like to be Anglican so I can marry again. It would be so easy to join the Anglican church so I could marry again and still participate in the Sacraments.

Oh wait, they wash the Body and Blood of Christ into the sewer lines…oh, now there is a schism regarding the ordination of gay priests and bishops…

Which Anglican denomination are you going to join? I have a lot of respect for the Anglican Church, but the Episcopalians in the US are beginning to join the “feel good” theology of the Evangelical Fundamentalists.

I maintain the Catholic Christian Church is an “Inconvenient Truth.”
and Al Gore is not the inventor of Inconvenient Truths.

I expected this from you. First of all, I have never been divorced. Secondly, I am converting to he Anglican church, not the Episcopal church. Her church is very seriously not Episcopalian. Your accusations of washing the Eucharist down tthe sewer is totally unfounded and ridiculous. Aagain, more Catholic propaganda and untrue rumors.

 

[Keikiolu]

I’m just about to leave it. I have been joining my wife and my son in their church (Anglican) on Sunday mornings. The priest is much more in tune with the parish and the parishioners are much more educated on their faith. It’s great to be together with my family for church. I cannot buy into the Catholic church 100% anymore. The Marian doctrines, The Authority of the pope and much of the church discipline I do not believe is truth.

Anglicanism isn’t 100% perfect either, but I believe that it is much more the church that Jesus founded.

Besides, the Anglican mass is almost identical to the Catholic mass. Very little difference.

So, you want something “confortably familiar”, but which will allow you to "have it your way…?

Very protestant of you, and you’re welcome to wherever you go. God be with you.

You’ll get what you want,… until you need what you need,… when the “inconvenient truths” will be too much to ignore but seemingly too little to “matter”,… at which point the real struggle begins.

Best to you on your pilgrim journey,… with a “sketchy” map, but the very best to you regardless, and Godspeed in getting to the hard part. Best it happen early and quickly.

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.

 

[PaulDupre]

I won’t get into such things as the 44-68 million murdered as a result of the papacy during the middle ages and other atrocities since it has nothing to do with current catholics or catholicism.

A little history would be in order here. During the middle ages, the entire population of Europe never exceeded 12 million people at any given time (Source: The Age of Faith by Will Durant - no friend of the RCC btw).

Do the math - in order for the papacy to have killed 44-68 million people, the entire population of Europe would had to have been killed 4-5 times over. Seems unlikely, doesn’t it?

Someone is lying to you.

God love you,
Paul

 

[Keikiolu]

Maybe I should’ve been more clear about what I have a problem with since I was awfully vague:

Purgatory
Idolatry
The papacy & peter being the first pope
Praying for the dead
Praying to saints and angels
The churches teachings on last judgment
The 7 sacraments
Position on contraception
Position on whether you can lose your salvation
Lent
Calling priests father
Mary supposedly being sinless
The assumption of mary
Transubstantiation
Celibacy for priests when peter was married
Being “born again”
Only catholics will be saved

I won’t get into such things as the 44-68 million murdered as a result of the papacy during the middle ages and other atrocities since it has nothing to do with current catholics or catholicism.

Wow,… so what does:
King James Dispensational…
Bible believing
Mid-Acts Pauline

…mean?

Other than that,… is there anything at all that you DON’T have a problem with about the Church?

Best to you in your “edification”, you KJDBMAP person,… you…!

Here’s hoping you’ll actually listen (what are the odds!?) to any answers that we might offer to your questions while you’re here.

When the frustration level finally becomes overwhelming in dealing with us heathens, please take a few breaths, read some of the good book dealing with “annoying gentiles”, and come on back for some more fun with your chosen “adversary”…!

Yeah,… we love ‘ya, but sometimes it CAN be a tryin’ chore…!

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.

 

[qui_est_ce]

I expected this from you. First of all, I have never been divorced. Secondly, I am converting to he Anglican church, not the Episcopal church. Her church is very seriously not Episcopalian. Your accusations of washing the Eucharist down tthe sewer is totally unfounded and ridiculous. Aagain, more Catholic propaganda and untrue rumors.

I am sorry you feel that way about me. I had hoped that the many posts defending the teachings of CC would excite you to a renewal in your faith journey. It has been posted in another thread (former Protestant, what was the last straw) that their last straw was the flushing of the wine. Maybe they were Episcopal. Please do not call well-researched posts as propganda and ridiculous rumors.

 

[qui_est_ce]

I am sorry you feel that way about me. I had hoped that the many posts defending the teachings of CC would excite you to a renewal in your faith journey. It has been posted in another thread (former Protestant, what was the last straw) that their last straw was the flushing of the wine. Maybe they were Episcopal. Please do not call well-researched posts as propganda and ridiculous rumors.

Brew, you yourself actively participated in this thread and saw the below post. Please be honest before you tell me I am spreading rumors and propoganda.

I hope you continue to come back to this forum. You were here for a reason. Perhaps you could start a thread and tell us of your experience.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=173716&page=10&highlight=what+was+the+last+straw
*
well, as an Episcopalian, there were a LOT of straws!

The one that finally made me realize I needed to come into full communion with the Church was the widely varying understandings of “Real Presence” that are accepted within the doctrinal boundaries of Anglicanism.

The Episcopal Church and diocese I grew up in and attended until my Tiber swim was pretty conservative, doctrinally, and I never really had to personally deal with any of the serious heterodox problems that plague much of the rest of that denomination, which was a great blessing. However, one day, we (the Lay Eucharistic Ministers aka LEMs) were meeting in the Sacristy, when I noticed that the sink had been re-piped to have both sinks going to the septic system. Now, if you know something about Sacristies, they should have one sink or repository that goes into the ground, for sacramentals like Holy water to be disposed without putting them into a septic tank!

I was aghast that for an indeterminate amount of time, people had been pouring the consecrated blood of Christ into a septic tank! When I expressed this, all of the layfolk there were pretty much like “so?”. I think the deacon (a female former Lutheran) was the only one who was equally upset about it.

That pushed me to really look deeper into why Anglicanism permitted such a wide and contradictory variety of beliefs. I understand some things in theology must be “held in tension”, but c’mon! Anyway, it got to the point that I realized that I was now outside of communion not only with Pope Benedict, whom I greatly respected as an Anglican, but the great Anglican saints of old like Thomas Becket and Anselm of Canterbury.

Long, rambling story short? Doctrine of the Eucharist.

---

Tiber Swim Team - Class of '05*

 

[BrewMax]

I am sorry you feel that way about me. I had hoped that the many posts defending the teachings of CC would excite you to a renewal in your faith journey. It has been posted in another thread (former Protestant, what was the last straw) that their last straw was the flushing of the wine. Maybe they were Episcopal. Please do not call well-researched posts as propganda and ridiculous rumors.

But they are ridiculous and propaganda. You just admitted it yourself and probably didn’ realize it (Maybe they were Episcopal). Not very well researched in my book.

 

[qui_est_ce]

[SIGN][/SIGN]

But they are ridiculous and propaganda. You just admitted it yourself and probably didn’ realize it (Maybe they were Episcopal). Not very well researched in my book.

When I wrote “maybe they were Episcopal” I was deferring to your detachment of Anglicans from Episcopal. I can’t know everything about everything, but I do know that Episcopalians flow from Anglicans.

Please explain your position.

 

[flyersfan1088]

Hi Jordan

, I don’t have a “denomination” because I don’t believe in following man, or man-made religion, I believe in following Jesus Christ, because His Name is the only Name under Heaven by which I (or anyone) can be saved. My guidance is the Word of God and the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit tells me in no uncertain terms that I am to remain in the Church that the Lord founded. He also tells me that it is wrong for a person to reject that Church. Why does the Spirit tell us two different things?

 

[BrewMax]

[SIGN][/SIGN]

When I wrote “maybe they were Episcopal” I was deferring to your detachment of Anglicans from Episcopal. I can’t know everything about everything, but I do know that Episcopalians flow from Anglicans.

Please explain your position.

Sure, just like the Blue Army women most popular in the 80’s who rejected the church’s teachings on the Marian doctrines flowed from the Roman Catholic church.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Sure, just like the Blue Army women most popular in the 80’s who rejected the church’s teachings on the Marian doctrines flowed from the Roman Catholic church.

Blue Army is Catholic. They promote the devotion to Our Lady of Fatima. They do not reject teachings of CC.

wafusa.org/

Are you saying Epsicopals and Anglican are not in Communion? The way you talk of the relationship is like that of Catholic vs 7th Day Adventist
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Episcopalian
*
Episcopal in principle means “of Bishops”, from the latin for bishop, episcopus, and the ancient Greek επίσκοπος.

It may therefore refer to:

**
An Episcopal Church, an alternative term for a church of the Anglican Communion, since Anglican churches are based on the concept of church governance by the bishops collectively (as an “Episcopal polity”). The term Episcopal is in several churches considered preferable to the term Anglican***, which originates in ecclesia anglicana, a Medieval Latin phrase dating to at least 1246 meaning “the English Church”.[1] Some feel that this might imply that there is an English ecclesiastical superority, which is not correct. A member of an Episcopal church is an Episcopalian:

Could you tell us the differences? I’ll ask Contarini as well.

 

[peary]

The problem is (and was) that we have lost two generations already to poor catechetical training. This started in the late 60s and continued into the 80s. Seeing the problem, John Paul II made sure that a new catechism of the Catholic Church would be developed and that all teaching at the parish level be in conformity with it. It will take another two generations to get things back on track. Hopefully, those that have left for other denominations may wish to re-examine their decisions. But we have to also remember that other denominations have a life of grace as well as the Bible. God works in each person’s heart (if we let Him). We need to trust the Holy Spirit on this one.

 

[BrewMax]

Blue Army is Catholic. They promote the devotion to Our Lady of Fatima. They do not reject teachings of CC.

wafusa.org/

Are you saying Epsicopals and Anglican are not in Communion? The way you talk of the relationship is like that of Catholic vs 7th Day Adventist
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Episcopalian
*
Episcopal in principle means “of Bishops”, from the latin for bishop, episcopus, and the ancient Greek επίσκοπος.

It may therefore refer to:

**
An Episcopal Church, an alternative term for a church of the Anglican Communion, since Anglican churches are based on the concept of church governance by the bishops collectively (as an “Episcopal polity”). The term Episcopal is in several churches considered preferable to the term Anglican***, which originates in ecclesia anglicana, a Medieval Latin phrase dating to at least 1246 meaning “the English Church”.[1] Some feel that this might imply that there is an English ecclesiastical superority, which is not correct. A member of an Episcopal church is an Episcopalian:

Could you tell us the differences? I’ll ask Contarini as well.

You obviously have not read or heard about the hundreds of Anglican chuches that have severed ties with the Episcopal church to be part of one of the other 38 Primates of the Anglican communion. These churches includng the one my wife and son belongs to is Anglican and not Episcopal. It is now in the Church of Uganda and is overseen by a bishop in Virginia.

 

[qui_est_ce]

You obviously have not read or heard about the hundreds of Anglican chuches that have severed ties with the Episcopal church to be part of one of the other 38 Primates of the Anglican communion. These churches includng the one my wife and son belongs to is Anglican and not Episcopal. It is now in the Church of Uganda and is overseen by a bishop in Virginia.

Thank you for clarifying. Yes, I have heard about Anglican churches that have served ties with the Episcopal. I didn’t realize it was hundreds. Am I correct that the Episcopal Church in the US is also on the brink of schism? It seems there are many Anglicans and many Episcopals who are not in communion with other Anglicans and Episcopals.