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DD2007
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It’s based on Christ and defending the Christian Faith. It is not the authority to judge truth, the bible is, but it is a good place to see if the RCC’s arguments hold up against people who have studied theology.
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Religio71
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Not so much. The vast majority of those that post on CARM have not extensively studied theology. What they have studied is the same anti-Catholic information we see all the time, which has the same errors that shows that they don’t think for themselves. And your logic is flawed, as those on CARM represent a one-sided viewpoint not shared by all that “study” theology.
Here is a sample of what CARM supporters said to a Catholic poster that said he was leaving the forum, and was discerning the diaconate and possibly priesthood:
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“Well Ed, there was a time when I had hopes for you man. But into the frying pan you go, I guess.”
“Well when is the funeral?”
“Good bye and don’t let the screen door slam you in the behind.”
“You were not converted, Onjion, you were snared from one form of death into another. It’s like the homeless girl who goes with the pimp because he offers to take care of her needs. And he does.”**
Kristin, this is what ex-Catholics try to do. They try to get you to read material by disgruntled former Catholics that is based in lies and hate. I am an ex-Mormon, and I would not send someone to an anti-Mormon site to learn about Mormonism. Likewise, for you to learn about Catholicism, read Catholic sources to see what we really believe. You will see that it does not match up with what the ex and anti-Catholics want you to THINK we believe.
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DD2007
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For instance, here is Dr. John Macarthur (well known and respected theologian, author, and exegete of the Macarthur Study Bible) speaking on the papacy from a theological perspective.
youtube.com/watch?v=dfl0jr159DE&feature=related
Dr. Macarthur is as educated as a human being can can possibly be educated in our colleges.
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Religio71
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Dr. Macarthur, a Baptist and a Calvinist (quick wikipedia search), who also says that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are not for these times.
And when you say “as educated as a human being can possibly be educated in our colleges”, you really mean “as educated in his specific field, which is evangelicalism”. There are MANY Catholics much more educated than him in theology.
This statement of mind stands again for him and all on CARM:
"And your logic is flawed, as those on CARM represent a one-sided viewpoint not shared by all that “study” theology."
Start a new thread if you feel the need to continue, you are ruining Kristin’s thread.
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Religio71
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Kristin, here are a few more recommendations that should help you on your journey to God’s Church:
ewtn.com/faith/Teachings/index.htm
ancient-future.net/davidstory.html
ancient-future.net/basics.html
Here are some books that you should consider buying:
amazon.com/Biblical-Defense-Catholicism-Dave-Armstrong/dp/1928832954/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1250490603&sr=1-8
amazon.com/Born-Fundamentalist-Again-Catholic/dp/089870569X/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1250490340&sr=8-7
amazon.com/Rome-Sweet-Home-Journey-Catholicism/dp/0898704782/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b
amazon.com/Father-Who-Keeps-His-Promises/dp/0892838299/ref=pd_sim_b_5
amazon.com/Catechism-Catholic-Church-Second-U-S/dp/0385508190/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1250490457&sr=8-1
amazon.com/Jesus-Nazareth-Pope-Benedict-XVI/dp/1586171984/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1250490490&sr=1-5
amazon.com/Introduction-Christianity-Communio-Cardinal-Ratzinger/dp/1586170295/ref=pd_sim_b_17
Enjoy! Lots to read, pray, and study!
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DD2007
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Catholics are allowed and encouraged to debate to the best of their abilities on CARM. Bring the pope if he is available.
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Religio71
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Oh believe me, we do. The point is that CARM supporters do not represent “those that study theology”, they represent “those that study their own theology”. So if you think someone should go to CARM to learn how beliefs stand up to what “those that have studied theology” say, they can come here as well to learn how their beliefs stand up to what “those that have studied theology” have to say.Catholics are allowed and encouraged to debate to the best of their abilities on CARM. Bring the pope if he is available.
Anyway, off topic.
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Rawb
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It amuses me to see how many people are telling Kristen to avoid CARM
Personally, I’ve not found a better apologetics argument against becoming whatever denom CARM claims, then letting people read CARM itself. One minute on that forum convinces any sane, understanding person to avoid CARM-denoms like the plague, unless they enjoy wallowing in willful and deliberate ignorance, stubborn bigotry, and hate.
I’ll finish by saying I do not cast such accusations lightly, and I understand that disagreeing with Catholicism is not being anti-Catholic. These people honestly and truly speak as if they hate Catholics (or anybody who slightly disagrees with them for that matter), and point-blank refuse to even consider the remotest possibility that anything a Catholic says could be true.
I’m still praying for you, Kristen, and your family.
Personally, I’ve not found a better apologetics argument against becoming whatever denom CARM claims, then letting people read CARM itself. One minute on that forum convinces any sane, understanding person to avoid CARM-denoms like the plague, unless they enjoy wallowing in willful and deliberate ignorance, stubborn bigotry, and hate.
I’ll finish by saying I do not cast such accusations lightly, and I understand that disagreeing with Catholicism is not being anti-Catholic. These people honestly and truly speak as if they hate Catholics (or anybody who slightly disagrees with them for that matter), and point-blank refuse to even consider the remotest possibility that anything a Catholic says could be true.
I’m still praying for you, Kristen, and your family.
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NoWings
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Read the Church Fathers, specifically the earliest ones you can find.
Justin Martyr, Clement of Rome, Ignatius of Antioch, and the Didache might interest you, especially concerning the Eucharist.
Justin Martyr, Clement of Rome, Ignatius of Antioch, and the Didache might interest you, especially concerning the Eucharist.
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MrsHall
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Congratulations! Now is also a great time to figure out your religious beliefs; a firm spiritual foundation for your child to grow up in is a great gift. (And Catholics love babies! I have yet to see an RCIA class that didn’t have mothers with babies sleeping in car-seats)…not that I’m pushing…or biased…
Hello Kristin,
First I want to echo this first quote here in my post. Most of our RCIA classes were attended by our entire family of eight. I won’t say it was easy every week but a new baby will usually sleep for an hour. There were times I had to turn my chair around and nurse the baby but no one seemed to mind. It is true that Catholics are baby lovers.
Our family came into the church at Pentecost (May 31) of this year. I would just like to give you one piece of advice that really helped us in our searching. If you want to know about the Church, go to the Church’s sources. Go to RCIA, talk to priests, talk to FAITHFUL Catholics. You won’t get anywhere talking to anti-Catholic Protestants or disgruntled Catholics who only want to talk about how women should be priests or why they don’t like the Pope. It will only put you on a merry-go-round and you won’t make any progress. You will have a bunch of half-truths to sort out when the whole truth is available with a lot less trouble.
We used the “Big, Green Catechism” as we call it in our house—the official catechism of JPII. It has a fantastic index and also a scripture index so you can look up what the Church teaches on different issues and verses of scripture. The Catholic Answers website is also excellent. There is good information out there. I personally can’t understand how there are still people who think “Catholics worship Mary” or “Catholics worship idols” in this day and age when a quick search on the Internet can give you the Church’s real teaching.
Pray, study and be patient. God has gotten you this far and He won’t leave you. You have a precious baby to guide in the Faith and so it is important that you make the right decision and know why you do what you do. I will be praying for you.
Sincerely in Jesus,
Kristyn Hall
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Tomster
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Kristin,
Welcome to Catholic Answers. You have made a good choice in selecting CA to get the “Rock” solid information you are looking for. Take your time, make some friends and converse with them. All of the questions you have regarding the Catholic Church can be answered here.
In regards to the Independent Baptist Church you were Baptised in, hang on to the love you received from all the members of that Church. Keep reading your Bible, daily. And above all pray to the Holy Spirit in the name of Jesus for guidance.
May God bless you abundantly.
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Tomster
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BTW - I forgot to mention two things. Get yourself a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church and refer to it when you read your Bible. Or, read the Catechism first and then read your Bible. The Catechism gives copious Biblical footnotes to questions you may have. Either way it is a win/win situation for you.
Second, tune in to EWTN, the Eternal Word Television Network. You will get just tons of the solid information that you are looking for. Watch the daily Mass above all else. ETWN provides dynamic preachers who will challenge you, personally, in your journey in faith.
Again, may God bless you and your loved ones abundantly!
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CWBetts
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Instead of Dr, John MacArthur, try reading Home Sweet Rome by Scott and Kimberly Hahn. Dr. Hahn is a form Presbyterian minister and a respected theologian who convertid to the Catholic Faith. Also try Journeys Home edited by Marcus Grodi. This book is a collection of conversion stories. Catholic and Christian by Dr. Alan Schreck is a good source for explaining specifically Catholic beliefs. The chapter on Mary is essential for those who see the Blessed Virgin as a stumblingblock. I myself used to be a Fundamental Independent Baptist, so i know what you are going through. Send me a PM if you have any questions.
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CWBetts
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And lest I forget, read Life is worth Living by Archbishop Fulton Sheen
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NotTooSmart
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Curious, what do you believe differently?
I am sure that as you have read here that the Catholic church claims to be the church of Jesus Christ and that everything that it teaches is true. I would think that before you become Catholic that you would owe it to yourself to verify that yes that indeed is the case.
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estesbob
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Welcome Krisitn. If you are truly interested in learning about the Catholic Church stick to Catholic sources. If, for instance, one wanted to find out about vegetarianism would they go to the American Beef Packers website?
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Tomster
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Excellent resources.
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pnewton
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Great idea in principle, although I do not know how much any of us posters going back an forth help. After all, should the side with the best debaters be a reason for any decision?
I would recommend that in addition to such reasons as provided by Catholics, look into anti-Catholic literature for the reverse argument. I personally liked John MacArthur, who is one of the sharper minds out there. He attempts to make a strong arguement for sola scriptura and a rejection of anything outside the Canon of Scripture. In doing so, he has to interject words into Pauls writings to Timothy and make the passage say more than it does not say. When I realized that a man of such profound exegetical skills can not support sola scriptura without logical hiccups, I realized that, as Catholics point out, that Christianity must be more than just a religion by the book. In other words, Jesus did not found a publishing company, but a Church.
I would recommend Mark Shea’s By What Authority for the Catholic POV.
FYI - I was not only a born and bred Baptist, but an preacher who went to an SBC seminary before becoming Catholic.
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Religio71
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pnewton
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I just noticed that the poster who suggested CARM also suggested John MacArthur. I think that is hilarious. By all means consider all points. Look into the history of the Church, what happened in the life time of those who walked with Christ and then the second generation. What you will find is the Catholic Church, with most of the docrtine and liturgy we have today while still be baptized in the blood of the martyrs. Let these “witnesses” guide you.
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