FORMER Jehovah's Witnesses....

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…Don’t you mean for Jehovah? I mean, most of us might be willing to die for our faith, but, not anything less.

And on what grounds would it have been “necessary”?
No I can speak for myself only…
but for me the Organization was
no different from the holy places
that Muslims will die over and fight
over.

For Catholics The Church is open
about the mistakes of her sinfull
members.

For Jehovahs witnesses…The Organization dose NOT disclose information about errors or ANY mistakes by members. That is why
Jehovahs witnesses view Bethel
as next to HEAVEN.
 
=adstrinity;5299720]What made you decide that JWsing was not for you? Was it something somebody showed you? How well did you know about the JW religion before you left it?
I have a cousin (JW) who wants to know how I can believe in the Trinity when “YHWH/JHVH” was only translated to “LORD”, that is, we’re missing something in translation…

Of course, I can use the Bible, and ONLY the Bible. 😉

Any help?

And, I mean, any personal help? I already am looking through the tracts and the Encyclopaedia on this site…
Here are two you can show, BUT they do NOT accept the bible EXCEPT when they THINK ot proves their point. So good luck.🙂

Eph. 4:4 "There is one body and one Spirit, {Holy Spirit] just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, 5 one Lord, [Jesus Christ] one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father [The Father] of us all, who is above all and through all and in all.

I have my shoes on but I think that’s three persons and One God:thumbsup:

Mt. 3:13"Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to John, to be baptized by him. 14 John would have prevented him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?” 15 But Jesus answered him, “Let it be so now; for thus it is fitting for us to fulfil all righteousness.” Then he consented. 16 And when Jesus was baptized, [ONE] he went up immediately from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened and he saw the Spirit of God [TWO] descending like a dove, and alighting on him; 17 and lo, a voice from heaven, saying, "This is my beloved Son, [THREE] with whom I am well pleased."

There ya go friend! Bet ya he does not accept it!
 
Hiya,

First, sorry to hijack your thread but: If any Catholic ex-JWs who read this are from New Zealand, especially the Chch area please email me: traviche@me.com I feel like the only ex-JW in NZ sometimes!

The main things that made me realise that the JWs teachings are incorrect were:
  • Loaded Language within their literature.
  • Scripture quoted out of context.
  • I realised I read everything, not just publications, without questioning it. Basically I realised that I had been trained to not question anything I read. Scary stuff.
Now the following is just my opinion, so take it with a grain of salt.

I believe the problem is a question of authority, rather than one of doctrine.

What I mean is that JWs believe the Governing Body is the only authority able to interpret scripture, so basically like you say you are only able to use the Bible, which puts you at a disadvantage for a start as your JW friend won’t be just using the Bible, they will use the Societies publications as well, whereas if you use any outside source they will immediately discount it.

Like a previous poster pointed out you just need to plant seeds (1 Cor 3:6)

Like my title suggest I am currently studying the Catholic Faith. Over the course of study I got in contact with Tom Cabeen, and I mentioned to him that I was having trouble with the Trinity, as I assume most ex-JWs do.

I hope he doesn’t mind but I would like to quote, in part, what he said to me:

To very briefly address your question about the Trinity, I must start by telling you that the WT doctrines against this teaching are meant to counter a caricature of the doctrine, for the writers of WT publications either are completely ignorant as to what the doctrine actually is, or they purposefully misrepresent it so that it is easier to “refute”. Of course, a refutation of a caricature of a doctrine is no refutation at all. It is meaningless.

If you have a copy of the JW brochure ‘Should you believe in the Trinity’ I would suggest reading it, as this will confirm what Tom says. First they try to refute the Trinity Proper in part, then move on to mis-quoting the Church Fathers, then they set up a straw man by refuting Arianism. It is poorly written, which is obvious when you know the truth, but when you do not its arguments are quite convincing.

Jeffery Schwehm also has some great articles that may help you:
catholicxjw.com/doctrines.html
catholicxjw.com/Trinity1.html

The other disadvantage that you have is your choice of Bible translation. If you use the NWT it will add weight to your JW friends argument, as that is how it has been translated. But if you use a Catholic translation there will be doubt in their mind as it is not the NWT.

I am going through something similar with my Grandmother at the moment, who is still a JW. I have not approached the Trinity yet, as I am taking a different approach. I am trying to convince her of the Magisterium first, then will tackle everything else later. It’s not easy

Basically I think you need to show why the organisation should not be trusted to interpret Scripture due to the way they present shoddy arguments to prop up their theology.

If you decide to do this, and it sticks, just make sure you or somebody is there to help them pick up the pieces of their shattered life.

Well, that’s my 2c, I hope it helps.
 
Here are two you can show, BUT they do NOT accept the bible EXCEPT when they THINK ot proves their point. So good luck.🙂

Eph. 4:4 "There is one body and one Spirit, {Holy Spirit] just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, 5 one Lord, [Jesus Christ] one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father [The Father] of us all, who is above all and through all and in all.

I have my shoes on but I think that’s three persons and One God:thumbsup:

Mt. 3:13"Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to John, to be baptized by him. 14 John would have prevented him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?” 15 But Jesus answered him, “Let it be so now; for thus it is fitting for us to fulfil all righteousness.” Then he consented. 16 And when Jesus was baptized, [ONE] he went up immediately from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened and he saw the Spirit of God [TWO] descending like a dove, and alighting on him; 17 and lo, a voice from heaven, saying, “This is my beloved Son, [THREE] with whom I am well pleased.”

There ya go friend! Bet ya he does not accept it!
She. My cousin is a she…as am I. The thing is, from what I have read, they do not deny that Jesus is the SON of God…just that He is NOT God.

Thank you to all who have yet replied and keep the posts coming if you think they could help.

Thank you, especially, to all who said just plant seeds now. A VERY good Protestant friend of mine said the same thing.

My cousin was shocked and kept pushing that we do not read the Bible at Mass and that I have taken religion courses but not Bible courses. My Protestant friend (who, again, IS Protestant) suggested I asked her who translated her Bible. Let her do the research and find the translator’s credentials.

And, this would be easier to explain if I was dealing with a Protestant, at least they can view history for themselves. JWs believe that the Church went apostate early on and so, whatever history I may have in my corner…pffffft. I mean, I COULD point out that the Church was around before the Bible, but, I don’t know why I would.

Oh! Here’s something for you JW’s & former JWs…are the JWs a works based religion? That is, it is not by grace that we are saved? I mentioned to my cousin that the OT Laws were not in place b/c they were impossible, but, because (as I learned from a Jewish poster here), it was for those who could keep the laws perfectly, they needed more structure. My cousin pointed out to me that it was a way to work or earn our way up to God…I may have twisted this in my brain. What is this about?

And, just as a curious factor, that has nothing to do with anything pertenant here, what’s it like to be a kid and not have birthdays? Was this not a weird thing because you didn’t know any different or did you all feel cheated?
 
**Bible at Mass:
**I may be wrong, if I am someone please correct me. This is due to a difference in views between a Catholic and JW. For the JWs their meetings are a place to learn, therefore they use the Bible, whereas for a Catholic Mass is all about Worship.

**Are the JWs a works based religion?
**They claim to be saved by faith alone, but they are a works based religion. They will tell you otherwise though.

The claim of the Christian Church into apostasy is an interesting one. The Society will quote from the Ante Nicene Fathers but I have found that the average JW will put no stock in their writings, aside from what the Society quotes. It is very difficult to get around. If you find a way let me know.

And, just as a curious factor, that has nothing to do with anything pertenant here, what’s it like to be a kid and not have birthdays?
Missing Birthdays never worried me for some reason. I really missed Christmas though. Same today, I would not be worried about not celebrating my birthday, except for the milestone ages, but I could never not celebrate Christmas.
 
Oh! Here’s something for you JW’s & former JWs…are the JWs a works based religion? That is, it is not by grace that we are saved? I mentioned to my cousin that the OT Laws were not in place b/c they were impossible, but, because (as I learned from a Jewish poster here), it was for those who could keep the laws perfectly, they needed more structure. My cousin pointed out to me that it was a way to work or earn our way up to God…I may have twisted this in my brain. What is this about?
Well, honestly, I don’t remember the whole salvation argument being the same like it is for Catholics/Protestants. You have to follow the rules as laid out by the organization to be in good standing. Only those in good standing have any hope of making through Armageddon or being resurrected. It’s very black or white. And again circular logic, very hard to argue with.

Also, they do not have “grace” as we know it. They call it “undeserved kindness”. Who knows why 🤷
And, just as a curious factor, that has nothing to do with anything pertenant here, what’s it like to be a kid and not have birthdays? Was this not a weird thing because you didn’t know any different or did you all feel cheated?
For me, it wasn’t bad. My early years shaped me to be the person I am today, and I have learned that I like me 😛 So I really wouldn’t want to go back and change anything. One thing that is backwards though, and sort of funny now, is that my parents divorced when I was 6. He was disfellowshipped and remarried. Once I got a little older, they started buying me birthday and Christmas presents. Nothing extravagant, just something small. I tried to hide that from my JW friends and others who knew me. Because I didn’t want people to think I was living a double life or didn’t love Jehovah enough to give them back or something. Weird, huh?
 
My cousin was shocked and kept pushing that we do not read the Bible at Mass and that I have taken religion courses but not Bible courses.
Why not invite her to Mass then and have her pay attention to the words? The whole mass is loaded with passages from the Bible! Though it would seem that even then she closes her eyes to seeing the truth.

As has been said though, one should plant the seed, wait, and pray patiently for it to grow.
 
Why not invite her to Mass then and have her pay attention to the words? The whole mass is loaded with passages from the Bible! Though it would seem that even then she closes her eyes to seeing the truth.

As has been said though, one should plant the seed, wait, and pray patiently for it to grow.
She told me she was Catholic, though, not a practicing Catholic as her dad wasn’t a practicing Catholic (I have never met her dad). Her grandmother was, though, apparently. She has been to Mass…and, she was also curious, as are most people, why I go to a Latin Mass.
 
A non-practicing Catholic is something I’m also finding a way to deal with in my life (someone I know). It’s easy for them to say they don’t believe or aren’t sure of this or that when they don’t even want to realize the fact that they hardly know what it means to be Catholic and what we really believe.
 
She. My cousin is a she…as am I. The thing is, from what I have read, they do not deny that Jesus is the SON of God…just that He is NOT God.
The reason its so hard to sell that Jesus is God to a JW is one little simple flaw in there bible.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was** A ** God.

In John the correct translation should read “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

The difference a letter makes…🤷
 
=Ali_formerJW;5305411]Blood issues are quite serious. They may have relaxed somewhat very recently, but if you were having a surgery or needed any kind of transfusion, you were to refuse at all costs. That went for your child as well. You should let them die before you give in and get a blood transfusion. Google it. Scary stuff.
The difference between Jehovah and the Organization gets a little fuzzy.
So if this same child was standing on the edge of a cliff and told you “I want to see if I can fly, so I’m going to jump” you’d say nothing?

“It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness”

“It is better to have tried and failed than not to have tried”

“It is better to do what one can, and pray for diliverence, than to dispair”

What is scary is that doing nothing because of both what you think you know and what you do not know, assumes rights belonging soley to God. {Who I know JW’s do not believe exist]. There are risk in every decisson we make, but millions upon millions have been saved because of blood work. Have some been killed, certainly, but an extremely small percentage. Your NOT God, not even a god.
 
Great point. A JW just left my house and we’ve already had that point. What is the deal with their translation? He said “I believe this because it’s in the Bible.” I asked him how he knows how to trust the bible. “Scholars, people smarter than me…” That’s as far as I could get down that path with him. Any advice on how I can approach the authenticity of their translation? Thanks!
 
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