Former Mormons, How Do You Pray?

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My sense was that if rmcmullan was sincere in their intent, then s/he didnt seem to at least take the replies with charity but was an attempt to bait.

My leaving Mormonism wasnt wrapped around some “crisis of faith”. On the contrary, just reason and study, and lack of belief in LDS foundational beliefs.

So, it leaving was the only honest and integral thing to do.

There was no crisis of faith involved. But, to be fair, that is a myth that does exist.
That’s the way I took it also, hence my comment about beating around the bush. (looking at their history helped too :p)

You learning/studying your way out of mormonism is a very common, if not the most common reason I have heard from mormons who have left.

It makes me understand why so many lose faith altogether, and become Atheist. Praise God that some come back to **a **faith.

The availability of truthful information abounds in today’s technological age, and is making it harder and harder for SLC to keep the status quo.
 
That’s the way I took it also, hence my comment about beating around the bush. (looking at their history helped too :p)

You learning/studying your way out of mormonism is a very common, if not the most common reason I have heard from mormons who have left.

It makes me understand why so many lose faith altogether, and become Atheist. Praise God that some come back to **a **faith.

The availability of truthful information abounds in today’s technological age, and is making it harder and harder for SLC to keep the status quo.
Most former Mormons I have known have left for such similar reasons. They studied and used their intellect. Not that they had some “crisis of faith” or were “offended”

Those are myths that are put forth by some who cant accept that the real reason for people leaving has to do with research and study for the reasons of leaving.

As if having the ability to use reason and intellect is not worthy of God somehow. 🤷
 
Being a little obtuse with a bit of condescension thrown in for good measure don’t you think?

Unless you live in a vacuum, you know full well what this means.

I see a tried and true pattern here. Just sayin… 🤷
My sense was that if rmcmullan was sincere in their intent, then s/he didnt seem to at least take the replies with charity but was an attempt to bait.
+10 to both of you:)
 
I just can’t imagine going through a crisis of faith so severe that you would leave your church without a lot of Gethsemane style prayers. And to have that replaced with a diet solely of rote prayers would… a big change.
How do you know that any former Mormon left their faith with out a lot of heartfelt prayer?
Are you trying to say that if someone prayed hard enough they would remain Mormon?
Am I to understand that many of you pray…I’m not sure what tne word is but I’ll go with spontaneously? Why are there not more examples of Catholic prayer that is spontaneous?
I teach religious education to elementary age children and today we discussed saying a prayer after Communion to thank God and Jesus for a variety of things. We brainstormed some ideas and I explained that it is a good idea to thank God and Jesus right after Communion. That is an example of spontaneous prayer and yes, Catholics do it.

I think the main question should be: Why do Mormons believe that Catholics don’t have a rich prayer life or that our prayer life is somehow lacking?
 
How do you know that any former Mormon left their faith with out a lot of heartfelt prayer?
Are you trying to say that if someone prayed hard enough they would remain Mormon?

I teach religious education to elementary age children and today we discussed saying a prayer after Communion to thank God and Jesus for a variety of things. We brainstormed some ideas and I explained that it is a good idea to thank God and Jesus right after Communion. That is an example of spontaneous prayer and yes, Catholics do it.

I think the main question should be: Why do Mormons believe that Catholics don’t have a rich prayer life or that our prayer life is somehow lacking?
I believe that they (ex-mormons) did in fact pray a heartfelt prayer and The One True Living God did answer their prayers and showed them the Way.
 
I believe that they (ex-mormons) did in fact pray a heartfelt prayer and The One True Living God did answer their prayers and showed them the Way.
Yes, I agree!

I guess Mormons believe that the ex-mo’s didn’t pray hard enough. :rolleyes:
 
Yes, but their prayers were anti-mormon!
Either that, or “Please God show me the One True Church established by your Son Jesus Christ and guided by the Holy Spirit for the last 2,000 years - just as You promised!”
 
Yes, but their prayers were anti-mormon!
It was my grandmother’s prayers that brought me back, and she was hardly anti-Mormon. 😉

It’s a myth, as we all know, that people leave Mormonism because of “anti” sentiment.

It does however, give some Mormons some sort of explanation as to why someone would leave Mormonism.

The spiritual realities of Mormonism isnt something many Mormons are ready to face…
 
To RCMcMullen,

Isn’t it common posture for mormons to pray on their knees with their arms folded?

Aren’t the words during the washing and annointing prayers? They are repeated over and over. Rather rote wouldn’t you say? Maybe not so much nowadays since so many temples have much more limited hours.

Aren’t the words used during the temple sealings, proxy baptims, endowments all standardized prayers that are repeated over and over?

It is better to remove the beam from your eye before you point out the splinter in someone else.

Just sayin…🤷
 
To RCMcMullen,

Isn’t it common posture for mormons to pray on their knees with their arms folded?

Aren’t the words during the washing and annointing prayers? They are repeated over and over. Rather rote wouldn’t you say? Maybe not so much nowadays since so many temples have much more limited hours.

Aren’t the words used during the temple sealings, proxy baptims, endowments all standardized prayers that are repeated over and over?

It is better to remove the beam from your eye before you point out the splinter in someone else.

Just sayin…🤷
Yes, and whenever they pray before meals, it all sounds very similar.

“strengthen and nourish our bodies…” (even when all we were having was Tang and cookies! ;))
 
Spontaneous. Prayer? What is that, is that a thing?
A prayer that is not planned out in advance. The times you just want some time with God and say what is in your heart. Or, are praying for specific intentions with a group. The prayers of the Church often reflect what a person wants, or hopes to say. I tend to say more spontaneous prayers, in my own personal prayers. But I have a few prayers that I like, and use more often than others.

Some of the most beautiful, heart felt prayers, are right there in the middle of the OT. The Psalms.

If you look at the prayer forum, here at CAF, you’ll see a mix of spontaneous prayers and the prayers of the Church. The Our Father is a sacred prayer, given to us by Christ.

If you want to join Catholics in daily prayer, go to sacredspace.ie, which combines prayer and meditation using the daily readings. It encourages, in the meditations, taking the time to pray what is in your heart, and on your mind.
 
I just can’t imagine going through a crisis of faith so severe that you would leave your church without a lot of Gethsemane style prayers. And to have that replaced with a diet solely of rote prayers would… a big change.
For myself, I left Mormonsim without a crisis of faith. I just didn’t believe it so it was not a big deal. I’ve said here before, I clearly remember the moment when I realized I didn’t need to believe in God, at all, and it was one of the best moments of my life, up to that point. Kind of horrifies me now, but that is where I was at.

Some 20 years later, when a Catholic friend suggested that I should pray, it was more than an awkward endeavor. I felt like I was talking to the air, and felt very silly. So the suggestion was to pray the Our Father. After all that time, I had that prayer memorized. I think most Mormons do? Though I can’t recall why since Mormons don’t actually pray the Our Father. Anyway, it helped me get going with prayer. I could say it and think about what I was saying, what it meant, and spent quite a bit of time figuring out what it did, actually, mean. In depth, not a surface gloss over.

Then I found my own voice, which granted was repetitive, mainly because I didn’t trust that prayer wasn’t some kind of self fulfilling method to getting what you wanted. Ie, no one answering, just basic psychology. I was very careful to not pray for specific things that might betray my desire, rather, I wanted to know God’s desire…if God existed at all. My prayer was simple, for a long time, “lead me to you”.

It was not an easy journey. I didn’t sweat blood but there were times where I thought God was just really messing with me. What I came to read, eventually, as being wounded by Christ. I am still wounded, profoundly. For a long time after God led me to Him, my prayer was nothing more than thank you God, and please keep me with you. My new faith, firm in Him, but I had a worry that my wandering soul would get to wandering again.

Now, it just isn’t possible for my should to wander. It is stuck to Jesus. No, I am not perfect, I have my moments of doubts, but I know they pass. Echoes of my atheism, that I think will always just be there.

I prayed more to Jesus, as a convert. He is where my heart is. God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. What the Son knows, the Father knows, and so God knows me. Sees me. Hears me. I found it difficult to pray to the Father, for a long time. Still had “daddy issues”, for lack of a better term, with the idea of God as Father. That changed one day when I was praying in front of the Blessed Sacrament, and I was struck quite literally by a voice that I knew was Father. Scared me a little, because God scares me a bit. A friend says that is a good thing, holy fear. Which is probably good to have the fear of God when one has had a wandering soul like mine.

Anyway, I think your question has an element of fear. I understand that. There were points on my conversion where I felt God had led me to a cliff, and I had to either turn back or jump. I’d hang around the edge, sometimes for weeks, thinking and praying, “really, this is where you are leading me??” There was a point where I had to make a leap of faith, which was terribly difficult to do. But, I didn’t fall into an abyss, as I feared. I fell into God, which at times has been the experience of His wounds, at other times the experience of His heart.

There are Catholic prayers that I like and use, because they express what is in my heart. Most of the time I’m just winging it. I still pray rather awkwardly, but I’m ok with that. God knows what I need, I think very rarely, I know what that need is myself until He shows me.

You must remember, Jesus prayed in the Garden “thy will be done”. That is the heart of prayer, the reason for it, for us to align our will to God’s. Not for us to convince God to align His will to ours.
 
RebeccaJ, thanks for the excellent posts.

When I was Catholic I asked my Mom if spontaneous prayers were ok and she told me they were the exception rather than the rule and that the rote prayers were preferable, because God knows what you want. My Mom is not a priest though and I have never seen any examples of public spontaneous prayer in the Catholic church when I used to attend so I was left to assume my Mom was right.

As some posters have pointed out, there are set prayers for all the Mormon ordinances and the sacrament and many of the spontaneous prayers fit into a comfortable template with oft used phrases intermingled. So the LDS and I assume Protestant way of praying is not 100% spontaneous. But it seems as what everyone is saying is that the Catholic way of praying isn’t 100% rote either?
 
RebeccaJ, thanks for the excellent posts.

When I was Catholic I asked my Mom if spontaneous prayers were ok and she told me they were the exception rather than the rule and that the rote prayers were preferable, because God knows what you want. My Mom is not a priest though and I have never seen any examples of public spontaneous prayer in the Catholic church when I used to attend so I was left to assume my Mom was right.

As some posters have pointed out, there are set prayers for all the Mormon ordinances and the sacrament and many of the spontaneous prayers fit into a comfortable template with oft used phrases intermingled. So the LDS and I assume Protestant way of praying is not 100% spontaneous. But it seems as what everyone is saying is that the Catholic way of praying isn’t 100% rote either?
As you have refused to respond to my points…I assume you are apologizing for making such a ridiculous and unfounded thread…
 
RebeccaJ, thanks for the excellent posts.

When I was Catholic I asked my Mom if spontaneous prayers were ok and she told me they were the exception rather than the rule and that the rote prayers were preferable, because God knows what you want. My Mom is not a priest though and I have never seen any examples of public spontaneous prayer in the Catholic church when I used to attend so I was left to assume my Mom was right.

As some posters have pointed out, there are set prayers for all the Mormon ordinances and the sacrament and many of the spontaneous prayers fit into a comfortable template with oft used phrases intermingled. So the LDS and I assume Protestant way of praying is not 100% spontaneous. But it seems as what everyone is saying is that the Catholic way of praying isn’t 100% rote either?
Everyone has their own prayer life. We don’t measure how much of our prayer is rote and how much is not. The important thing is, to pray.

The prayers of the Church do cover everything, and there is nothing wrong with using them exclusively. I think what you aren’t “getting” are prayer intentions. Even if/when a person is using a long-used prayer, the intention they have when praying varies according to their own personal context. Whether or not it is a written prayer, we have our own private, or community, intentions when we pray.

Liturgy uses defined prayers, with the possible exception during the prayer intentions. The prayers are written out, but the priest who is officiating can add in additional intentions. Also, at Mass, there are times where I am praying my own, private prayers. We also can have a personal or community intention for the entire Mass. So while we may all be praying the Our Father together at every Mass, the entire Mass itself may have a particular intention for everyone there, and/or for every individual.

About a year ago I was at a Mormon funeral. The man dedicating the grave didn’t say something in the dedication prayer exactly right, and had to do it over again. I remember this occuring once or twice at sacrament meeting when I was a kid. It comes across to me as viewing prayer as a magic incantation, that when it is not said exactly right, it has no effect. Seems kind of weird to me to criticize written Catholic prayers when Mormons have written prayers that must be said exactly as they are written, or have prayers that must include exact phrases, in order to believe they are effective. 🤷

Also, I don’t know why you think Protestants don’t use rote prayers, when they do. Newer denominations, such as Evangelicals, have rejected them but I know Anglicans and Lutherans who have strong devotions to Mary. We all pray the Our Father. Many denominations have books of prayers. And as I already pointed out, the Psalms are hymns of praise, or in some cases lamentations. Prayers that are meant to be sung. I don’t know of any mainline Protestants that don’t sing the Psalms at some point.
 
The prayers of the Church do cover everything, and there is nothing wrong with using them exclusively. I think what you aren’t “getting” are prayer intentions. Even if/when a person is using a long-used prayer, the intention they have when praying varies according to their own personal context. Whether or not it is a written prayer, we have our own private, or community, intentions when we pray.

Liturgy uses defined prayers, with the possible exception during the prayer intentions. The prayers are written out, but the priest who is officiating can add in additional intentions. Also, at Mass, there are times where I am praying my own, private prayers. We also can have a personal or community intention for the entire Mass. So while we may all be praying the Our Father together at every Mass, the entire Mass itself may have a particular intention for everyone there, and/or for every individual.

About a year ago I was at a Mormon funeral. The man dedicating the grave didn’t say something in the dedication prayer exactly right, and had to do it over again. I remember this occuring once or twice at sacrament meeting when I was a kid. It comes across to me as viewing prayer as a magic incantation, that when it is not said exactly right, it has no effect. Seems kind of weird to me to criticize written Catholic prayers when Mormons have written prayers that must be said exactly as they are written, or have prayers that must include exact phrases, in order to believe they are effective. 🤷
I said the same thing early on in this thread and he has refused to respond to the point.

this thread was meant to inflame, not discuss…
 
I said the same thing early on in this thread and he has refused to respond to the point.

this thread was meant to inflame, not discuss…
I see someone who doesn’t know and is asking, with the preconceived ideas of Mormonism thrown in.
 
I see someone who doesn’t know and is asking, with the preconceived ideas of Mormonism thrown in.
Perhaps. But his question was not designed so…

and his failure to respond to points also speaks to more inflaming that discussing
 
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