L
Lance
Guest
I am shocked! NOT!
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Former ND president Fr. Hesburgh: "I have no problem with females or married people as priests..."
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
D
Deacon_Ed_B
Guest
Do y’all think that everyone could embrace Holy Mother Church as it is today, without always having to revert to the past. The Church is in the here and now. This is where we exist. The Here & Now. Embrace it, support it, love it and live it.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
T
Tantum_ergo
Guest
To a point, Deacon Ed, but as has been said, “Those who do not learn from the past are destined to repeat it.”
I have the highest respect for Fr. H as a priest. Ditto for Notre Dame as an institution, and for its students.
And heaven knows that people’s speeches can be easily taken out of context, or can be innocently ‘ambiguous’.
I just hope that it has been made clear --and with no disrespect intended to Father H., or Notre Dame, etc.–that as Catholics, there is simply no possible way that any Catholic can have ‘no problem’ with the idea of women being Catholic priests.
A Catholic would have to have ‘a problem’ with those Catholics who have ‘no problem’ with women being Catholic priests, because the Church has already made it quite clear it has no authority to ordain women. Being ‘neutral’ or implying such (and ‘no problem’ does imply that one is at least neutral, if not favorable, to the idea) likewise implies that one does not acknowledge or accept the Church’s decision as being ‘final’. That’s the problem with those Catholics who have ‘no problem’ with the idea that someday when the Church is ‘more enlightened’, they will ‘change their minds’ and ‘let women in’.
It won’t happen, but even little attempts to ‘crack the wall’ with “I personally have no problem with the idea of female priests” are hurtful to the Catholic faith by fostering disunity.
I have the highest respect for Fr. H as a priest. Ditto for Notre Dame as an institution, and for its students.
And heaven knows that people’s speeches can be easily taken out of context, or can be innocently ‘ambiguous’.
I just hope that it has been made clear --and with no disrespect intended to Father H., or Notre Dame, etc.–that as Catholics, there is simply no possible way that any Catholic can have ‘no problem’ with the idea of women being Catholic priests.
A Catholic would have to have ‘a problem’ with those Catholics who have ‘no problem’ with women being Catholic priests, because the Church has already made it quite clear it has no authority to ordain women. Being ‘neutral’ or implying such (and ‘no problem’ does imply that one is at least neutral, if not favorable, to the idea) likewise implies that one does not acknowledge or accept the Church’s decision as being ‘final’. That’s the problem with those Catholics who have ‘no problem’ with the idea that someday when the Church is ‘more enlightened’, they will ‘change their minds’ and ‘let women in’.
It won’t happen, but even little attempts to ‘crack the wall’ with “I personally have no problem with the idea of female priests” are hurtful to the Catholic faith by fostering disunity.
F
fix
Guest
That is the point, exactly. How can one have no problem with something that is contrary to the will of Christ?No problem with women priests? That’s like saying I have no problem with us deciding that 2+2=5.
D
Deacon_Ed_B
Guest
???To a point, Deacon Ed, but as has been said, “Those who do not learn from the past are destined to repeat it.”
I have the highest respect for Fr. H as a priest. Ditto for Notre Dame as an institution, and for its students.
And heaven knows that people’s speeches can be easily taken out of context, or can be innocently ‘ambiguous’.
I just hope that it has been made clear --and with no disrespect intended to Father H., or Notre Dame, etc.–that as Catholics, there is simply no possible way that any Catholic can have ‘no problem’ with the idea of women being Catholic priests.
A Catholic would have to have ‘a problem’ with those Catholics who have ‘no problem’ with women being Catholic priests, because the Church has already made it quite clear it has no authority to ordain women. Being ‘neutral’ or implying such (and ‘no problem’ does imply that one is at least neutral, if not favorable, to the idea) likewise implies that one does not acknowledge or accept the Church’s decision as being ‘final’. That’s the problem with those Catholics who have ‘no problem’ with the idea that someday when the Church is ‘more enlightened’, they will ‘change their minds’ and ‘let women in’.
It won’t happen, but even little attempts to ‘crack the wall’ with “I personally have no problem with the idea of female priests” are hurtful to the Catholic faith by fostering disunity.
How in the world does this apply to what I posted? Embrace the Church as it is today. It is not in error. The Holy spirit is guiding it. Opinions of one incorrect priest does not the Church make. Follow Rome, that is what will get us home.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
T
Tantum_ergo
Guest
But Deacon Ed, the point is that while the Church (God bless her) is not in error, even today there are many individuals. . .even priests. . .who are still in error. Thus, in order to embrace the Church’s teaching (and the teaching on women priests, that the Church has no authority to ordain women as priests, is correct teaching), one simply must ‘embrace’ that teaching and express it–even if in doing so one appears to contradict somebody else ‘in the church’ who** appears** to state otherwise (as Fr. H. could indeed have been speaking about non-Catholic priests, and not Catholic priests, in regard to women being ordained).
I do follow Rome. I hope Fr. H. follows Rome. It has not been proven that he is ‘dissenting’ (as I tried to make clear). The point is that we need to be clear ourselves in following Rome.
I do follow Rome. I hope Fr. H. follows Rome. It has not been proven that he is ‘dissenting’ (as I tried to make clear). The point is that we need to be clear ourselves in following Rome.
L
Lance
Guest
We have a parish mission going on right now and the speaker is Michael Cumbie a former Baptist minister who converted to Catholicism and that is exactly what he said last night. He felt that if America would just follow the advice of the pope, 85% of our problems would disappear.???
Code:Prayers & blessings Deacon Ed B
F
fix
Guest
Here is the quote:
Majority of the leadership? Is that we we call it now?It has to evolve over time. I have no problem with females or married people as priests, but I realize that the majority of the leadership in the Church would…
Dubium: Whether the teaching that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women, which is presented in the Apostolic Letter Ordinatio Sacerdotalis to be held definitively, is to be understood as belonging to the deposit of faith.
Responsum: In the affirmative.
T
Tantum_ergo
Guest
And with Fix’s giving the quote, I think we can see that this is a real problem.
No matter how often Rome speaks, it seems there are always some ‘in authority’ themselves who disagree with Rome, and the difficulty is that it is not always easy for the ‘average’ Catholic to know when their ‘own’ priest is speaking ‘with’ Rome or ‘against’ Rome. So while it is easy to say, “Follow Rome”. . .it is not always easy to do so. Many can be led astray.
No matter how often Rome speaks, it seems there are always some ‘in authority’ themselves who disagree with Rome, and the difficulty is that it is not always easy for the ‘average’ Catholic to know when their ‘own’ priest is speaking ‘with’ Rome or ‘against’ Rome. So while it is easy to say, “Follow Rome”. . .it is not always easy to do so. Many can be led astray.
D
Deacon_Ed_B
Guest
To quote a past president (unnamed) "LET ME MAKE THIS PERFECTLY CLEAR"
I,like Fr. H., personally would have no problem with women priests,** if **Pope John Paul II had not said that that would and could never be. That having been said by Pope John Paul the Great, I accept it with the fullest of my mind, body and soul, and firmly believe it will never change, because our Vicar of Christ has spoken. Can we have a married clergy? We do now. I am married clergy as a deacon. Can we have married priests? We do now with those who were protestant, with valid orders, who converted to Catholicism. Can priests marry? The answer to that is no. If one goes through laicization the man remains a priest forever due to the indelible mark of Holy Orders, but then with all faculties removed is then free to marry, but cannot function as a priest. So too with a deacon. Only in case of emergency can the priest (I have big time problems saying ex-priest because the indelible character of Holy orders always remains) can he exercise the powers of absolution that come with priestly ordination. I think this is what we have ll been saying but were going in a circular argument and not getting to the point.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
I,like Fr. H., personally would have no problem with women priests,** if **Pope John Paul II had not said that that would and could never be. That having been said by Pope John Paul the Great, I accept it with the fullest of my mind, body and soul, and firmly believe it will never change, because our Vicar of Christ has spoken. Can we have a married clergy? We do now. I am married clergy as a deacon. Can we have married priests? We do now with those who were protestant, with valid orders, who converted to Catholicism. Can priests marry? The answer to that is no. If one goes through laicization the man remains a priest forever due to the indelible mark of Holy Orders, but then with all faculties removed is then free to marry, but cannot function as a priest. So too with a deacon. Only in case of emergency can the priest (I have big time problems saying ex-priest because the indelible character of Holy orders always remains) can he exercise the powers of absolution that come with priestly ordination. I think this is what we have ll been saying but were going in a circular argument and not getting to the point.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
T
Tantum_ergo
Guest
I think that’s what we’ve been saying too, Deacon Ed.
Putting the “have no problem with woman or married priests” as a statement made it look as though they were two equal and legitimate possibilities. Of course, the second is and always has been permitted (before ordination as you correctly point out); the first has never been permitted and in fact has been quite consistently ‘impossible’ and of course reiterated in written form in Ordinatio Sacerdotalis by John Paul II, of happy memory.
So in essence, it’s a kind of ‘specious’ statement to say "I have no problems with females or married people as clergy’ because the second (Married clergy) has always been possible within the determined parameters of the Church, while the first has never been deemed possible and in fact has been consistently taught as impossible.
Putting the “have no problem with woman or married priests” as a statement made it look as though they were two equal and legitimate possibilities. Of course, the second is and always has been permitted (before ordination as you correctly point out); the first has never been permitted and in fact has been quite consistently ‘impossible’ and of course reiterated in written form in Ordinatio Sacerdotalis by John Paul II, of happy memory.
So in essence, it’s a kind of ‘specious’ statement to say "I have no problems with females or married people as clergy’ because the second (Married clergy) has always been possible within the determined parameters of the Church, while the first has never been deemed possible and in fact has been consistently taught as impossible.
L
Lance
Guest
Don’t forget our Eastern Rite brothers who have always had married priests and are no less Catholic than Latin Rite Catholics.Code:
D
Deacon_Ed_B
Guest
You are correct, but they have to be married before they can be ordained. Once ordained, they cannot marry or remarry, In fact, the bishops from the Eastern Rite are chosen from the single clergy, not the married ones.Don’t forget our Eastern Rite brothers who have always had married priests and are no less Catholic than Latin Rite Catholics.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
- Status
- Not open for further replies.