Former Protestant Pastor in the Eastern Rite

[Dan-Man916]

Personally, I think Rome is way overstepping their boundaries in getting involved with the ordination of married man in an Eastern Rite Church. This should simply be a matter for the Bishop to decide.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

Sure. But it is wrong to use this method of ascribing converts. The system takes over and has a life of it’s own - reason flies out the window.

If the Protestant converts into a Byzantine Catholic parish and understands the theology in this particular way the “system” has got him. He has to be Latin to become a priest, or he can just hit the road.

But he isn’t a Latin, he is spiritually a Byzantine regardless of what the ‘paper’ says. He would be a square peg. The Pastoral Provision as explained here is unfair because the Latin church has a monopoly on the convert ministers who desire to be priests, even though the eastern churches already have a tradition of married priests and they with their families would fit in all the better.

I have seen the opposite phenomena as well: some Orthodox convert to Catholicism spiritually as full-blown Latins … Augustine, Anselm, Aquinas and Dave Armstrong all down the line, Council of Orange, Opus Dei … the works. But they are ascribed to a “corresponding Eastern Catholic church” automatically. When people complain about Latinizations they should think of this because new members like this will not help them restore the traditions and spirituality in the parish, they will undermine it to whatever extent they have influence in the little parish community, and are themselves best served in a Latin parish anyway.

But that can be fixed and is not so bad as denying a vocation to an experienced married pastor who wants to be a Byzantine priest but granting a vocation once they become resigned to being a Latin. It is totally discriminatory to the Byzantine churches.

On the whole I would agree with you. As you may have noticed from my previous postings I don’t think Eastern Christianity is treated well by the west.

I do not know personally of any Protestants (excl. Anglicans) who have ‘converted’ to Catholicism. I suspect, here in England at least, the majority would come from the Anglican Church, i.e. the Church of England. I see ‘conversions’ from Baptists, Methodists, etc. being less likely though I don’t doubt they happen. Going back to the Anglicans they would, I think, most likely be Anglo-Catholics so for them (excepting the priestly marriage/celibacy issue) the Roman variety of Catholicism would seem the most appropriate as they have more than likely been behaving like Latin Catholics.

I can understand how because the Eastern Churches have a married clergy former Protestant clergy who are married and have a family may fit in better. What I fail to see is how very many Protestants would have a ‘Byzantine spirituality’. Perhaps it’s to do with location. There isn’t much exposure, if any, where I live to any Eastern Christian Churches (Assyrian, EC, EO, OO).

 

[ConstantineTG]

Personally, I think Rome is way overstepping their boundaries in getting involved with the ordination of married man in an Eastern Rite Church. This should simply be a matter for the Bishop to decide.

This should be ideally how it is. But the political aspect plays in. The Western World was evangelized by the Roman Catholics and is technically their territory. Of course migration has changed over the past 2000 years where people get to keep their cultural identities no matter where they are in the world thanks to rapid travel and the ability of a lot of people to move. Unlike in the past when only a small group would travel long distances and therefore would be assimilated into another culture, today loads of people come into new countries as permanent residents still keeping their original cultural identity. So the problem now is that you have Eastern Catholics in lands that are claimed by Roman Catholics as their territory.

 

[rcwhiteh]

[A] Protestant is always received into the Latin Church.

Did you mean to say that an ordained Protestant minister could only received into the Latin Church? The way you wrote it, it sounds as though Protestants (ordained or not) could only enter the Latin Church and never the Eastern - which is erroneous, because I was a Southern Baptist and was received into the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church 26 years ago.

In any event, I’ve never heard of a married ordained minister of any Protestant denomination **other **than Episcopalian being received into the Latin Church and allowed to retain his priesthood.

 

[5Loaves]

In any event, I’ve never heard of a married ordained minister of any Protestant denomination other than Episcopalian being received into the Latin Church and allowed to retain his priesthood.

After discernment, and then education as needed, some have been ordained as priests in the Latin Church. Marcus Grodi has interviewed a number on his The Journey Home radio and TV program. His primary ministry is to pastors of other denomination who find themselves called to full communion with the Catholic Church. He himself is a former protestant pastor. He was not been called to the priesthood.

Most Reverend Timothy M. Dolan, Archbishop of Milwaukee, on July 26, 2008 on married clergy becoming priests [clearly he’s only speaking of the Latin Church not ECC/OCC]

Q. Is this practice of married priests wide-spread in the United States?

A. There are approximately 100 active priests in the United States who are married. Without exception they came to Catholicism from other churches. They formerly served the Episcopal, Lutheran, Presbyterian, or Methodist churches as ordained ministers. At some point they felt the call to communion with the Catholic Church and entered a process of transition. They and their families entered into full communion with the church, and the former Protestant ministers petitioned Rome for permission to be ordained as Catholic priests. They are now active in priestly ministry throughout the country.

Q. Has this practice evolved over the last 28 years?

A. Yes. Originally this practice only applied to men who had been Episcopalian / Anglican clergy. It also involved the situation of whole parishes coming into full communion along with their minister. They were even permitted to use adapted liturgical practices that borrowed from their Episcopalian roots. **Over the years, petitions from ministers from other Protestant denominations were considered and permission granted. **

 

[ConstantineTG]

After discernment, and then education as needed, some have been ordained as priests in the Latin Church. Marcus Grodi has interviewed a number on his The Journey Home radio and TV program. His primary ministry is to pastors of other denomination who find themselves called to full communion with the Catholic Church. He himself is a former protestant pastor. He was not been called to the priesthood.

Most Reverend Timothy M. Dolan, Archbishop of Milwaukee, on July 26, 2008 on married clergy becoming priests [clearly he’s only speaking of the Latin Church not ECC/OCC]

Also note that many Ministers did go to Bible School so they are educated more than the average layperson, Protestant or Catholic. They would still have to catchup on Catholic theology and other related subjects but many have already a head start.

 

[Hesychios]

In any event, I’ve never heard of a married ordained minister of any Protestant denomination other than Episcopalian being received into the Latin Church and allowed to retain his priesthood.

They have come from numerous backgrounds, although the Pastoral Provision was perhaps originally intended for ‘Anglicans’, that restriction very quickly unraveled. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think it was originally in connection with the Anglican Use.

Here in Illinois (Joliet diocese) we have one who was a Lutheran minister with family heading a very large suburban parish.

Here is a news article announcing a recent candidate with family on his way to becomeing a priest. Note that EWTN actually mentions that it was intended for "allowing married Lutheran, Anglican and Episcopal ministers to enter the priesthood … ", then it says he was a Protestant minister.

Here is a news article about the same married former minister, Scott Caton, on his way to holy orders, but this article in a non-Catholic media source reveals that the man was actually a Baptist.

So the rules are stretched by the Vatican when convenient, except perhaps when the candidate wants to be a Byzantine Catholic priest.

 

[BernadetteM]

I think you misunderstood. I do not think MBd is speaking about being ordained but being assigned as a pastor of a Church.

It is my understanding that the Roman Church, or at least some bishops in it, refrain from assigning married convert clergy as a pastor of a parish (except for the Anglician Use parishes).

Fr. Ernie Davis is the Pastoral Administrator of St. Therese the Little Flower in Kansas City Missouri. He is the Pastor at this parish and it combines both a Latin Rite parish and an Anglican Use parish under one roof. They are only separate in the aspect of Fr. Davis using the Latin Rite Mass for one group and the Anglican Use Mass for another, but anyone can attend either. I do believe he is married.

I don’t know about other dioceses, it might depend on the Bishop.

God Bless

Bernadette

 

[pm1853]

Let’s say a protestant pastor decides to convert to the Catholic Church, but he wants to get baptized and become a priest. If he becomes Roman, he won’t know for sure if he will be allowed to be a pastor. What if he becomes an eastern catholic?? will he be allowed to be a pastor?

Thanks for your answers. God bless

Since the original question doesn’t mention marriage, yes, it is possible for a protestant pastor to become a pastor in an Eastern Catholic church. I have no laws or rubrics to cite, but the pastor at the Ruthenian Catholic parish in Alaska (and its mission) is a former protestant pastor.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Fr. Ernie Davis is the Pastoral Administrator of St. Therese the Little Flower in Kansas City Missouri. He is the Pastor at this parish and it combines both a Latin Rite parish and an Anglican Use parish under one roof. They are only separate in the aspect of Fr. Davis using the Latin Rite Mass for one group and the Anglican Use Mass for another, but anyone can attend either. I do believe he is married.

I don’t know about other dioceses, it might depend on the Bishop.

God Bless

Bernadette

Just a note. A Pastoral Administrator is not a Pastor. A Pastor is a canonical term and carries with it certian rights and duties that a Pastoral Administrator does not have.