Former Questions Please share with us why?

[PJM]

=SteppingAlong;6980267]I became a Catholic four years ago (after 18 months of weekly RCIA) because I married a cradle Catholic. We both left the church 3 months ago. And the answer is not an easy one because when I converted, I was in love with the Catholic Church. I was truly happy for a long time but then slowly, I began to crave God in a way that I was not finding in the Catholic Church. …Yes, there are things I believe to be undeniably true about the Catholic Church. But do I believe that Christ is only found in the Roman Catholic Church? Absolutely not. I’m a well-educated woman and I understand tradition versus scripture and all those aspects of the Catholic faith but I also know that the relationship with God is personal and we have to go where He calls us.

Is this position biblical?

WOW!

While I certainly appreciate your views; you have **actually and literally **LEFT JESUS CHRIST for a church that makes you and your husband “feel better.” That friend is a extremely poor; soul endangering trade off.

Only in the Catholic Church can one find the REAL IN PERSON Jesus Christ [Mt. 26:26-28; Mark 14:22-24, Luke 22:19-21; John 6:46-57; and Paul 1 Cor. 11: 23-29.] Nothing can replace this reality!

Christ fully aware that soon He would die and Rise from the dead on our behalf; instituted a New Covent; a SINGLE New Faith and only ONE Church. [There are in the NT over 100 references to his ONE Church], that existed for 1,600 years BEFORE the Protestant Revolution, Luther, Calvin and the KJ [edited and reduced] bible. What was true when Christ founded His Catholic Church, remains true today. [SEE: Jn. 17:14-19 especially v.19].

ONLY in the CC can one find KNOWN forgiveness of sins. [See 1 Jn. 1: 8-10; 1 Jn.5:16-17 and John 20:19-23 [Christ words not mine].

Look again at Mt. 16:19 and 18:18. Again Christ Words, not mine.

Acts.20:28 “Take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church [SINGULAR] of God which he obtained with the blood of his own Son. “

Eph. 2:19 So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, [singular] built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; [singular] in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

Eph. 4: 4 -7“There is one body [One Church] and one Spirit, [One set of beliefs] just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, one Lord, [One God] one faith, [One set of doctrine and dogma] one baptism, By water in the Trinity] one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all. But grace was given to each of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift. "

2 Thess. 1: 8 inflicting vengeance upon those who do not know God and upon those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They shall suffer the punishment of eternal destruction and exclusion from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might

Heb.6 Verses 4 to 10: 4 For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, [Baptized into the CC] who have tasted the heavenly gift, [Catholic Eucharist] and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, [Confirmed into the CC] and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt. For land which has drunk the rain that often falls upon it, and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed; its end is to be burned.

Mt. 7: 21-23 "Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.”

Your story of not being fed the instruction you desired is all too common. It is the consequence of the Novus Ordo Mass that places humanity on the same level as our God. Or worse; of higher significance than God. By having the priest face us, the altar become a stage, and FAR LESS a place of Devine Worship. Homilies are “feel good” don’t upset anyone, rather than the truths of salvation they MUST TEACH and we must obey! [Mt. 18:6-14].

But that being true DOES NOT eliminate our GRAVE responsibility to learn, know, live, practice and defend when necessary our faith. *. Today; especially in the climate of “we are the church,” ones obligation extends far beyond Mass, which is ONLY a starting point, and thee ultimate source of God’s necessary graces; not available elsewhere.

I Jesus give you Peter [on whom I am both founding My ONE Church, and entrusting it’s care and guidance too]; THE KEY’S TO THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN!” Mt. 16:15-19 v. 19] SINGULAR!

My dear friends, you would do well to rethink your position and your priorities.

I can assure you your abortion teaching experience is unique to your pastor. Many if not most never discuss this critical issue.

God cannot lie. [2 Tim.3:15-17].

After reading these verses; perhaps you can explain to me the grounds for the existence of the KJ bible? Seven fewer chapters and numerous text changes.

Love and prayers,
Pat*

 

[PJM]

=TedDC;6981060]I simply came to the realization that I do not believe all of the essential tenets of the Catholic faith.

Fair enough?

But my dear friend in Christ; did you; do you, have a proper understanding of them?

ONLY in the CC can one find the Ral Person of Jesus Chrsit; In Person; not only in Spirit.

ONLY in the CC can one find TRUE forgiveness of sin and KNOW [hot simply hope or blindly beieve that one is forgiven] 1 Jn. 1:8-10; 1 Jn. 5: 16-17 and John 20: 19-23.

ONLY in the CC can one find the Seven sacraments all instituted by Jesus.

ONLY in the CC does one find a TRUE [unedited, non-abbreviated] Bible

ONLY in the CC can one be a member of the New Covenant of God, a member of the ONLY church Jesus Founded, and the sourse of ALL truth on ALL matters of Faith and Morals.

Eph. 4: 4 “There is one body [One Church] and one Spirit, One set of beliefs] just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, one Lord, One God] one faith, [One set of doctrine and dogma] one baptism, By water in the Trinity] one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all.But grace was given to each of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift. "

Heb.6 Verses 4 to 10:For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, [Baptized into the CC] who have tasted the heavenly gift, [Catholic Holy Communion] and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, [Confirmed into the CC] and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, …. if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt. For land which has drunk the rain that often falls upon it, and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed; its end is to be burned.

**Matt.7: 21 **"Not every one who says to me, `Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Matt.22: 29 But Jesus answered them, “You are wrong, because you know neither the scriptures nor the power of God.”

Friend you may wish to review these few passages?

Mt.16:19, 18:18; the above John references; and John 17:14-19 especially v.19.

Thanks for sharing,

Love and prayers,
Pat

 

[PJM]

Originally Posted by ImReallyNice
I went to Catholic Mass for a year and attended RCIA to the point of Baptism, but without going through to the Baptism. I found that I could not agree with the church’s stances on Abortion, Gay Marriage, Priestly Marriage, Contraception, and child abuse.

Friend in doing so you actually are denying God; which is the one unforgivable sin.

Abortion is MURDER. The Fifth Commandment is thou shall not Kill.

I could refute the otherss too, but The first Commandment is “have no STRANGE- gods before Me.”

Each of your “reasons” is a STRANGE god?

We, not God, chose heaven or hell for our eternity. You would be lovingly advised to rethink your positions while there is time.

Love and prayers,
Pat

 

[TedDC]

peace and blessings Br Ted, if i may ask what does the spirit have you do since?

Thanks - actually I’m just working on following the Ten Commandments and the Golden Rule for now. I figure I’ll focus on those and worry about all the doctrine and dogma stuff once I’ve got them under control (which looks to be a very long time).

 

[Katrina5]

Thank you for the questions, to all who asked.

Well, I attended Catholic mass for close to one year. Every Sunday I would hop out of bed and do all that is Catholic. I genuflected, made the sign of the cross, said the “and also with you” to the priest…everything. I knew how the mass went very well and you would have mistaken me for a cradle Catholic really…I knew my way around the place. I went to the Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults. This class helps prepare you to enter into Catholicism. We discussed a lot of topics, really.

One thing about me is that I am actually a fairly strong supporter of a woman’s right to choose abortion. I do believe that it should be legal and safe in most cases. It is her right to terminate the pregnancy, I think. I suppose this puts me at odds with the Catholic church. I don’t think the church should necessarily change it’s position, though that would be nice. I just think that perhaps this means that I’m not a good fit for this church. Either that, or I’d be something of a Catholic who dissents on the subject.

On Marriage, I actually agree with the church teaching. I don’t think a faithful church would allow gay marriage, as that is reserved for one man and one woman. I do think that gay Christians should be allowed to take communion and enter clergy. Once again, I’m not advocating the church change it’s position…I think it would be a nice accommodation for me but what it really means is that perhaps I’m just not a good fit for the church because I’d be a dissenter.

I think priests should be allowed to marry. I’ve been to both and I feel like I can relate more to married priests. They have to experience family life like the rest of us. I think that celibate priests simply don’t get that familial experience. I can tell. It would also help lower the cases of priestly abuses of children.

I do realize that most of the church is against priestly abuses of children. There is a select class within the church, however, that has been diligent in protecting the practice and fostering it. Many of them are in higher power, away from the parishes now. They are high ranking Cardinals, Bishops and Popes. This bothers me to some measure.

One thing I like about the Episcopal church is that it is very patriotic. It has it’s roots in the American Revolution. Freedom, liberty, God, and Country are all deeply felt in my congregation. The church’s strict allegiance to Rome somewhat hinders patriotism because church comes before country. I like the roots of the distinctly anglo-american religions.

That said, my experiences with the Catholic Church have deeply impacted my spiritual life. When it comes to my view on the church, communion, priesthood, and a myriad of other topics, most of my views were formed on a foundation of Catholicism. I currently attend an Episcopal Cathedral. I walk in, Genuflect, make the sign of the cross, say the responses…it’s very much like the Catholic church but more Americanized. I have, however, only attended this church for a month. My views on liturgy, worship, real presence, priesthood, and many other views all have very Catholic foundations. Catholicism has forever impacted the way I view these things. There are, however, certain particular issues that I do disagree on. Most are not theological disagreements but social and ecclesiastical disagreements.

I did not mean to insult the religion it’s self. I love Catholicism. I love Catholics. I just don’t think I’d make a good one. lol

Sorry if I offended anyone. I tried my best to not come off as offensive.

**Edit: (I would like to note that I am not completely sure on this subject. I still retain an open mind to becoming Catholic. I would just need more information and much guidance on how I could reconcile some of my beliefs with the church first, before becoming Catholic. I just wanted to say, however, my mind is still open to the possibility)

To sum it up: I don’t have a problem with becoming Catholic. I would have to work on reconciling our differences though. **

I have to put in my two cents on the “pro-choice Catholic” thing-- NO.
That said, when you say that you are for “women’s rights”, sorry, but that is the biggest smoke screen going.
It takes two people to create the baby, embryo, fetus…one can walk away with his “rights” intact, the other is left with a potential lifetime of duty.
So if she aborts your baby, how does that have anything to do with HER rights?
Abortion is for the man, not the woman.

You aren’t offensive, at least you are thinking, praying, seeking-- all good. I will keep you in my prayers. You seem to have a lot going for you.

PS Sex abuse of minors, like any rape, is not about sex, it is about POWER. Being married doesn’t lower the incidence. Another thread, another time.

 

[maryj]

I have to put in my two cents on the “pro-choice Catholic” thing-- NO.
That said, when you say that you are for “women’s rights”, sorry, but that is the biggest smoke screen going.
It takes two people to create the baby, embryo, fetus…one can walk away with his “rights” intact, the other is left with a potential lifetime of duty.
So if she aborts your baby, how does that have anything to do with HER rights?
Abortion is for the man, not the woman.

You aren’t offensive, at least you are thinking, praying, seeking-- all good. I will keep you in my prayers. You seem to have a lot going for you.

PS Sex abuse of minors, like any rape, is not about sex, it is about POWER. Being married doesn’t lower the incidence. Another thread, another time.

Just like to add…how about the rights of the child being aborted that is a “female”. Where are her rights?

 

[TedDC]

Just like to add…how about the rights of the child being aborted that is a “female”. Where are her rights?

Yes - though I’m no longer Catholic, I think this is one area where the Church has got it exactly right. The view that life begins at conception is infinitely more rational and morally defensible than the legal contrivance of “trimesters”.

One of my criticisims of Catholic sexual and reproductive morality is its inappropriate invocations of “Natural Law” (presumptuously referred to as “The Natural Law”, as though it were an actual book of statutes rather than a philosophical approach) to defend arbitrary man-made rules. One sees it in this forum from time to time, when someone cries “Natural Law! Natural Law!” as their trump card to end a debate over some Church rule. But in the case of abortion, a reasonable application of Natural Law does indeed support the Church’s position.

 

[TedDC]

TedDC;6981060:

I simply came to the realization that I do not believe all of the essential tenets of the Catholic faith.

Fair enough?

But my dear friend in Christ; did you; do you, have a proper understanding of them?

I understand the Church’s claims and the arguments made in support of them. That understanding led to my disbelief.

 

[Katrina5]

Yes - though I’m no longer Catholic, I think this is one area where the Church has got it exactly right. The view that life begins at conception is infinitely more rational and morally defensible than the legal contrivance of “trimesters”.

One of my criticisims of Catholic sexual and reproductive morality is its inappropriate invocations of “Natural Law” (presumptuously referred to as “The Natural Law”, as though it were an actual book of statutes rather than a philosophical approach) to defend arbitrary man-made rules. One sees it in this forum from time to time, when someone cries “Natural Law! Natural Law!” as their trump card to end a debate over some Church rule. But in the case of abortion, a reasonable application of Natural Law does indeed support the Church’s position.

With DNA analysis available, one could presumably test the DNA of an embryo, fetus, or infant to find out if it is indeed “human” and even if it is “alive”. I think the idea that life begins at some other stage of gestation is a philosophical argument that has been trumped by science.
We are digressing from the thread.

 

[danonwaveland]

EditBTW, that website is quite sickening. ****

I didn’t mean to jolt you like that, but, on the other hand, I guess I did. Sorry.

It’s sickening because it is murder, and a pretty gruesome way to die, at that. People complain about the abuse of dogs at puppy mills, and rightfully so. People complain about the mistreatment of poultry and livestock at factory farms, and rightfully so. Yet, the unborn are humans and you can see how they were killed.

Even though a woman may have been raped or is very poor or may be carrying a child with intellectual and/or physical challenges, the unborn child is still innocent and does not deserve to die. As the body of Christ, we are all responsible to help these women and their children and the Catholic church has, at least here in Chicago. Of course, more needs to be done, just as more needs to be done to assist the elderly, the poor, the depressed, the lonely, etc. That’s why our Catholic faith is not a “me ‘n’ Jesus” thing, but an “us ‘n’ Jesus” thing. (Sorry for the rant, but having said all this, I guess I’ve got to go look in the mirror. . . you know, practice what I preach.)

So, the long answer to your question about “pro-life Catholics” is “No”. God guide you on your journey.

God bless,
Dan

 

[Katrina5]

Just like to add…how about the rights of the child being aborted that is a “female”. Where are her rights?

That is my point exactly. I just read where China aborts females over half the time. The same is true in India.
I am all for women’s rights, starting at conception until natural death, which includes her entire LIFE.

 

[maryj]

That is my point exactly. I just read where China aborts females over half the time. The same is true in India.
I am all for women’s rights, starting at conception until natural death, which includes her entire LIFE.

Simple as that…a big Amen

 

[maryj]

I understand the Church’s claims and the arguments made in support of them. That understanding led to my disbelief.

Again the truth…the church does not have claims’s, it proclaims the truth. And just because we don’t understand does not make it any less the truth. Understanding does not lead to disbelief, Come home.

 

[TedDC]

Again the truth…the church does not have claims’s, it proclaims the truth. And just because we don’t understand does not make it any less the truth. Understanding does not lead to disbelief, Come home.

Proclaiming something does not make it true.

 

[maryj]

Yes - though I’m no longer Catholic, I think this is one area where the Church has got it exactly right. The view that life begins at conception is infinitely more rational and morally defensible than the legal contrivance of “trimesters”.

One of my criticisims of Catholic sexual and reproductive morality is its inappropriate invocations of “Natural Law” (presumptuously referred to as “The Natural Law”, as though it were an actual book of statutes rather than a philosophical approach) to defend arbitrary man-made rules. One sees it in this forum from time to time, when someone cries “Natural Law! Natural Law!” as their trump card to end a debate over some Church rule. But in the case of abortion, a reasonable application of Natural Law does indeed support the Church’s position.

So lets talk about those arbitrary man-made rules. That’s totally a buzz line to me…

 

[TedDC]

So lets talk about those arbitrary man-made rules. That’s totally a buzz line to me…

There’s really no point in doing so. Your faith requires you to believe that the rules set by the Church come from God, and it’s not my intention to dissuade anyone from their faith. I simply do not believe what you believe.

 

[maryj]

Proclaiming something does not make it true.

Yes when the church doing the proclaiming is the church founded by Jesus Christ. But I’ll guess you already have heard that. Praying Christ leads you home.

 

[Greg27]

I can say I have my reasons but the decision to leave was not easy. I think though it boils down to the situation I was very unhappy in the Catholic Church, primarily because the church seemed to demand me to accept a large number of things with blind obedience, particularly on ethical matters like contraception and abortion. Appeals to infallibility or inerracy never worked for me because a lot of these ethical issues were complex and involved many factors. But above all I basically learned an authoritarian power structure gels badly with a person who tends to dissent, question, and ask for reason and evidence to support a position rather than being told to believe by an authority. I think unfortunately the Roman Church and me were ultimately a poor fit, and like a bad marriage, it could only end in divorce.

I am much happier in the Anglican church. While the communion has its problems, I can freely express my doubts, concerns and dissent without being threatened, punished or censured. I feel I fit in much better and it is also much easier to practice my faith and apply its principles to my life generally, and I don’t constantly concern myself about my failure to be perfect.

There are many good things about the Roman church but also things I think need reforming, particularly the church’s attachment to the idea of perfection in terms of doctrine. I think it is untenable in the present time to adhere to absolute certainty when our understanding of things is so frail and weakened by sin and evil. I think all churches need to be more humble, especially in light of their horrible historical record of persecution, violence and repression to each other, non-Christian religions, and the ‘untouchables’ like homosexuals and women. I would like to see a more compassionate and welcoming church which focuses on giving people, especially the poor, the stigmatised, the failures and the outcasts, a loving and affirming welcome, rather than constant ravings about abortion and contraceptive use. Above all I would like to see a Roman Church that is more relaxed in its control and allows more diversity in terms of liturgy, allowing women into leadership roles, giving Catholics more room to decide issues according to conscience rather than blindly following church teaching, and accepting people for who they are. I would also like to see the church do much more to deal with sex abuse and admit it was wrong in the way it handled it.

A church to have the courage to admit it is wrong is what I would like most to see from Catholicism. I think that is more attractive than a church that parades ‘infallibility’ and certainty which it clearly does not possess, given its manifest weaknesses and failings due to human sin and other causes in the past and in the present.

I am quite happy for the church to speak out on moral issues with a firm voice and with well-argued and reasoned positions. But I don’t think any church has a moral monopoly, or a perfect insight superior to all others into moral questions.

 

[maryj]

Greg27, one question…could you point me to where Jesus tells us that it is suppose to be “easier” to practice our faith?

 

[ChristianSurfer]

I think priests should be allowed to marry. I’ve been to both and I feel like I can relate more to married priests. They have to experience family life like the rest of us. I think that celibate priests simply don’t get that familial experience. I can tell. It would also help lower the cases of priestly abuses of children.

1 Corinthians 7

32 I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord’s affairs—how he can please the Lord. 33 But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world—how he can please his wife— 34and his interests are divided. An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord’s affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world—how she can please her husband. 35I am saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but that you may live in a right way in undivided devotion to the Lord.

Also Its not really up to personal opinions. Personal opinions don’t do well when we are Christians when it needs to be based off scripture. Too many people are using “I feel likes” instead of what it should be and what it is. If all we had was morality based off feelings then where do we stand? Whats easy or whats true? We have the gospels for many reasons.

Things like

You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’[e] 28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

are already established, now we may quarrel about what exactly constitutes looking “lustfully” but you cannot abolish scripture itself with personal opinions. Just my :twocents: :ehh: