Former Questions Please share with us why?

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No offense, Light - but every thing I just read seems to come from a person who not only doesn’t have a clue who the God of Christianity is but is clueless about Catholic doctrines. 🤷
Hello Elvisman,

Could you please explain your comments? If I am mistaken that those items I listed are tenets of the Catholic faith, I would be most interested in knowing that. I prefaced the comments by stating that I am not currently a Catholic, and I believed the original poster was asking for people such as myself to state the reasons they left the Church. I did that to the best of my ability and with the intention of bestowing the utmost respect to members of the faith. Is your comment one of disagreement? Or are you stating that I misunderstood Catholic doctrine? I’m confused by your post. I am sorry that I offended you, as I attempted to undertake every precaution to avoid that. Certainly it does not come as a surprise that some individuals have left the Church, and have specific reasons for having done so? That was the nature of my post–to explain why I left, as the original poster intended in her question. In my post, I meant not to refute the Church’s tenets–but to explain why they don’t match up with my spiritual quest. Nothing further.

Peace to each of you,
Light1111
 
Hello Elvisman,

Could you please explain your comments? If I am mistaken that those items I listed are tenets of the Catholic faith, I would be most interested in knowing that. I prefaced the comments by stating that I am not currently a Catholic, and I believed the original poster was asking for people such as myself to state the reasons they left the Church. I did that to the best of my ability and with the intention of bestowing the utmost respect to members of the faith. Is your comment one of disagreement? Or are you stating that I misunderstood Catholic doctrine? I’m confused by your post. I am sorry that I offended you, as I attempted to undertake every precaution to avoid that. Certainly it does not come as a surprise that some individuals have left the Church, and have specific reasons for having done so? That was the nature of my post–to explain why I left, as the original poster intended in her question. In my post, I meant not to refute the Church’s tenets–but to explain why they don’t match up with my spiritual quest. Nothing further.

Peace to each of you,
Light1111
First of all - you state that “… all worshipers of God are seen by Him as attempting to go forward in this world from a posture of love, gratitude, and respect.” * You indicate that there are many paths to God because to accept the Catholic view is unacceptable.*
That is your FIRST mistake.

There IS only one path to God – through Jesus. Jesus and his Church are indivisible (Acts 9:4-5). Since Jesus set up his Church as the dispenser of grace (Matt. 16:19, 18:15-18, John 20:21-23) – wew are saved through the church. We aren’t saved BY it – but THROUGH it.

You state that homosexuality is not a sin – even though the Scriptures are replete with condemnations for those who practice homosexuality (Lev. 18:22-23, 20:13, Rom. 1:26-7, 1 Tim 1:9-10). Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed because of sexual immorality – including homosexuality (Gen 19:5-8).

You reject that we are born with Original Sin – a fallen nature. Rom. 5:12-13 EMPHATICALLY states:
“Therefore, just as through one person sin entered the world, and through sin, death, and thus death came to all, inasmuch as all sinned for up to the time of the law, sin was in the world, though sin is not accounted when there is no law.”


Verses 15-19 go into further detail on the matter.

You reject confessing your sins to a priest, yet Christ himself instituted this sacrament (Matt. 16:19, 18:15-18, John 20:21-23, 2 Cor. 5:18-20, James 5:16).

You reject the Church’s position on Birth Control – placing an artificial barrier between us and God – yet the Church Fathers are unanimous in their condemnation of it. Just as Onan was killed by God for spilling his seed on the ground (Gen. 38:9-10) - all barriers we place before God are sinful.

Your HIV argument is ridiculous because you’re NOT supposed to be having sex outside of marriage in the first place.
 
Why are you hassling someone in their attempt to give an honest answer to the OP? The OP asked for charity. In fact, the forum rules demand charity.

I’m not seeing much grace in Graceland.
 
Why are you hassling someone in their attempt to give an honest answer to the OP? The OP asked for charity. In fact, the forum rules demand charity.

I’m not seeing much grace in Graceland.
I’m not hassling anybody. As a matter of fact - here is my first response to him:

"No offense, Light - but every thing I just read seems to come from a person who not only doesn’t have a clue who the God of Christianity is but is clueless about Catholic doctrines."


I was merely pointing out that this person doesn’t have a grasp on the God of Christianity or the Church. This is a person who claims to have been a Catholic, yet misrepresents the Church’s teachings.

No hassling here, friend. 🤷
 
I’m not hassling anybody. As a matter of fact - here is my first response to him:

"No offense, Light - but every thing I just read seems to come from a person who not only doesn’t have a clue who the God of Christianity is but is clueless about Catholic doctrines."

I was merely pointing out that this person doesn’t have a grasp on the God of Christianity or the Church. This is a person who claims to have been a Catholic, yet misrepresents the Church’s teachings.

No hassling here, friend. 🤷
Elvis, to me, it read like you were attacking the poster because you found his answer to the OP was lacking. Yet he was expressing his spiritual journey and not asserting Catholic TRUTHS that needed correction.
 
If i may just make a remark.

I’ve looked at Elvisman’s reply on the many questions asked. I’ve looked into the word and have to say scripture does not lie.

The original sin, i can planly see. It matters not about birth, we are all born to die, thats from Adam. The law was not in it yet, but it does seem sin was in this respect.

Personal sin as such, judged by the law was not about at that time, that came in when the law came in. I’m right thus far i think?

So being baptized at that age means the baby is known by God ? Not before this act?

In later life people come to the faith have to repent and be baptized etc? Mark 16:15-16 and others. Why does scripture say that, if, they have been baptized as babies?

Ric
 
Whether you agree with the Didache or not, but reading it seems to tell me that a candidate for baptism had a mentor of sorts, and then after a time of teaching ( In the way) and learning, then they were baptized.
Child baptism is not mentioned in light of the teaching set out.

Thoughts anyone?
Ric
 
Elvis, to me, it read like you were attacking the poster because you found his answer to the OP was lacking. Yet he was expressing his spiritual journey and not asserting Catholic TRUTHS that needed correction.
Indeed. Todd, PLeeD, I am most grateful to both of you. I mentioned in my post how warmly I have been greeted by those in this forum, and my thanks go out to the both of you for your comments following my post. You both understood my remarks, and defended my intention in making them.

Elvis, I am well aware of the Catholic teaching in regards to the issues I discussed. In my post, I highlighted the very fact that these items are a part of Catholic doctrine. I explained why, from my heart, I cannot align myself with those teachings. I do not refute that they are teachings. I was raised a Catholic, as I stated earlier, and from a very young age, these same issues plagued me. As I mentioned in the discussion about Muslems, in a separate thread, it was my heart and my sincere intent to learn the nature of God and to be close to Him, that led me to follow an example that does indeed diverge from that of the Church. I appreciate your pointing out to me that according to Catholic doctrine, there is only one path to God – through his Son. Again, this is simply a point I don’t agree with. I was expressing a personal faith belief in so stating–not refuting yours.

I had hoped that members reading my post would realize it was inherent in my words, that I was accepting of the facts as presented; that they did indeed align themselves with Catholic doctrine. As a non-Catholic, I wished to elucidate how one might find himself separating from the Church, from out of an inner sense that those teachings did not align perfectly with one’s own internal sense of God.

I am sincere in stating that I am moved each time I visit this forum, to see those members who follow God’s word and who worship Him in open sincerity. I do not take issue with Catholics on their quest to follow God. When I say I believe all paths lead to God, I naturally include Catholics in that “all.” I was merely explaining the reasons why I personally have left the Church. I am aware that this could indeed make a follower of the Church see me as one of the fallen. I apologize to you for having offended you. I never intended that. But please try to see that refuting my spiritual beliefs does not accomplish your objective. You ‘corrected’ my spiritual beliefs, and that is not really possible. Just as I would not attempt to ‘correct’ your spiritual beliefs–there is nothing to correct. Any spiritual belief is beautiful, to me. I believe one can come to a posture of ‘knowing’ God, which is not necessarily found in all religions, by all persons of sincerity. It can be very difficult to find, to feel, and to know God. Many of those with whom I was raised within the Catholic Church expressed remorse over their lack of knowing; their inability to feel close with God during mass, or moments of quiet repose, in deep prayer. My heart goes out to all who have difficulty in achieving this quest. As a matter of fact, once I was an adult both of my parents admitting to atheism! They took us to mass once a week, and had us attend Catholic school – with the intention of instilling in us a faith in God they never managed to achieve. While I did leave the Church, I do believe in God, and I worship Him privately, and several times a day. So my parents’ objective was successful!

For me, I have found that God has touched me the most deeply during times of trauma and pain. I have known He walked with me when I was in my darkest hour. Like my very favorite poem, “Footprints in the Sand.” One might meet their end and ask God, why were you not with me when I found myself in my darkest hour? You said you’d be with me during the hardest times. I see only set of footprints in the sand, during those times I felt the greatest pain. And God responds by saying, Child, those times you see only set of footprints in the sand . . it was then that I carried you.

Elvis, I wish you could see that God would not wish for you to harshly criticize and chastise a person who sincerely spoke to their heart and their soul. I am a loving person who is kind to others. I am now a visitor to the Catholic Forum because at my current position in faith, I am reaching out to a former community, one I knew as a child. I have greatly enjoyed renewing my knowledge base regarding Church doctrine, and I find my spiritual quest has been greatly enriched by this knowledge.

Perhaps it is difficult for you to fathom my divergence from the Church, but consider the following. Which items did I list, and why did I list them? . . . in defense of homosexuals, whom I do not believe deserve such harsh judgment. In defense of the newly born soul, again whom I do not believe deserve such harsh judgment. In defense of the impoverished and the disease-stricken, whom I witness in their suffering as they attempt to be faithful to CC. In defense of those injured by us, when we trespass against them; I do not believe they are justly served when we make amends merely by visiting the priest for confession, but not by visiting them directly, to apologize. Each of the points I listed addressed instances I saw judgment negatively impacting individuals. It is my empathy for them that brings me to my departure from formal doctrine.

Peace to each of you, and my heartfelt gratitude goes out to Todd and PLeeD, for displaying the open charity of your hearts.

Light1111
 
Elvis, to me, it read like you were attacking the poster because you found his answer to the OP was lacking. Yet he was expressing his spiritual journey and not asserting Catholic TRUTHS that needed correction.
Todd - you would accuse me of anything and everything because you don’t like when I present the truth. Yor some reason, you have a problem with that.**

You do this on every other thread so I’m not surprised you decided to add your two cents . . . :rolleyes:
 
Elvis, I am in regards to the issues I discussed. In my post, I highlighted the very fact that these items are a part of Catholic doctrine. I explained why, from my heart, I cannot align myself with those teachings. I do not refute that they are teachings. I was raised a Catholic, as I stated earlier, and from a very young age, these same issues plagued me. As I mentioned in the discussion about Muslems, in a separate thread, it was my heart and my sincere intent to learn the nature of God and to be close to Him, that led me to follow an example that does indeed diverge from that of the Church. I appreciate your pointing out to me that according to Catholic doctrine, there is only one path to God – through his Son. Again, this is simply a point I don’t agree with. I was expressing a personal faith belief in so stating–not refuting yours.

I had hoped that members reading my post would realize it was inherent in my words, that I was accepting of the facts as presented; that they did indeed align themselves with Catholic doctrine. As a non-Catholic, I wished to elucidate how one might find himself separating from the Church, from out of an inner sense that those teachings did not align perfectly with one’s own internal sense of God.

I am sincere in stating that I am moved each time I visit this forum, to see those members who follow God’s word and who worship Him in open sincerity. I do not take issue with Catholics on their quest to follow God. When I say I believe all paths lead to God, I naturally include Catholics in that “all.” I was merely explaining the reasons why I personally have left the Church. I am aware that this could indeed make a follower of the Church see me as one of the fallen. I apologize to you for having offended you. I never intended that. But please try to see that refuting my spiritual beliefs does not accomplish your objective. You ‘corrected’ my spiritual beliefs, and that is not really possible. Just as I would not attempt to ‘correct’ your spiritual beliefs–there is nothing to correct. Any spiritual belief is beautiful, to me. I believe one can come to a posture of ‘knowing’ God, which is not necessarily found in all religions, by all persons of sincerity. It can be very difficult to find, to feel, and to know God. Many of those with whom I was raised within the Catholic Church expressed remorse over their lack of knowing; their inability to feel close with God during mass, or moments of quiet repose, in deep prayer. My heart goes out to all who have difficulty in achieving this quest. As a matter of fact, once I was an adult both of my parents admitting to atheism! They took us to mass once a week, and had us attend Catholic school – with the intention of instilling in us a faith in God they never managed to achieve. While I did leave the Church, I do believe in God, and I worship Him privately, and several times a day. So my parents’ objective was successful!
Perhaps it is difficult for you to fathom my divergence from the Church, but consider the following. Which items did I list, and why did I list them? . . . in defense of homosexuals, whom I do not believe deserve such harsh judgment. In defense of the newly born soul, again whom I do not believe deserve such harsh judgment. In defense of the impoverished and the disease-stricken, whom I witness in their suffering as they attempt to be faithful to CC. In defense of those injured by us, when we trespass against them; I do not believe they are justly served when we make amends merely by visiting the priest for confession, but not by visiting them directly, to apologize. Each of the points I listed addressed instances I saw judgment negatively impacting individuals. It is my empathy for them that brings me to my departure from formal doctrine.

Peace to each of you, and my heartfelt gratitude goes out to Todd and PLeeD, for displaying the open charity of your hearts.

Light1111
My problem with you all along is NOT that you left the Church - that’s your business. My problem is NOT that you disagree with the the Church’s teachings - that’s your problem.

**My problem with people like you is that you misrepresent the Church’s teachings. Regardless of what you claim - you are not “well aware of Catholic teaching”. Having charity doesn’t mean that I should let you get away with spreading lies. TRUE charity is in admonishment and correction of such untruth.

**You state that the Church’s position on homosexuality is that it is a sin and that homosexuals are condemned to hell. **That is a complete misrepresentation of Catholic Doctrine. It is the homosexual ACT that is considered sinful - not the fact that one is homosexual.

You also completely misrepresent the Church’s teaching on Original Sin. You state that the Church teaches that unbaptized babies "go straight to hell". The Church leaves all unbaptized persons to the mercy of God. Nowhere, does the Church teach that unbaptized babies go straight to hell.**

As for your othr beliefs - I think you’re way off the mark, but I’ll leave that alone for now.
 
Perhaps it interests you to know that I quoted what I was taught in Catholic School, and at Catholic Church. In any case, whatever I believe, I am surprised by your harsh attitude, and I am quite certain that is a violation of Christ’s teachings. To my way of thinking, that is a far more grave concern than any personal belief I may hold.
 
Perhaps it interests you to know that I quoted what I was taught in Catholic School, and at Catholic Church. In any case, whatever I believe, I am surprised by your harsh attitude, and I am quite certain that is a violation of Christ’s teachings. To my way of thinking, that is a far more grave concern than any personal belief I may hold.
Again - I’m not being “harsh” - just defending the faith and not allowing others to misrepresent or besmirch it.

**The fact that you went to Catholic School is of no consequence.
 

I do understand why the CC forbids condom use, or birth control. I too respect the unborn soul. I simply see the ramifications of not using birth control as far outweighing the downfalls inherent in using it. The world suffers due to overpopulation; the family suffers due to poverty; the individual suffers due to disease.

I don’t!!

A condom is a barrier type birth control, like the diaphragm. When in use no life is created, so no life is destroyed.

Barrier ontraceptives are the perfect answer for the loving married couple to use especially if for health reasons they should not have children.
 
No offense, Light - but every thing I just read seems to come from a person who not only doesn’t have a clue who the God of Christianity is but is clueless about Catholic doctrines. 🤷
I think it is offensive, whether you say “no offense” or not. The Thread Question is “Former - please share with us and why”? Light has shared in detail what the objections might be. Light never claimed to be a Christianm, or a Catholic. I think your response is uncharitable.
 
Whether you agree with the Didache or not, but reading it seems to tell me that a candidate for baptism had a mentor of sorts, and then after a time of teaching ( In the way) and learning, then they were baptized.
Child baptism is not mentioned in light of the teaching set out.

Thoughts anyone?
Ric
One of the reasons that the Didache was not included in the NT canon is that it is a Liturgical manual for the clergy with instructions for their duties. The Didache, just like the NT, was never intended to be a full compendium of faith and practice. It addresses some specific liturgical practices.

Adult baptism always has, and still is, practiced in the manner described in the Didache. Yes, they had a sponsor, just as Barnabas sponsored Paul with the Apostolic college.
 
I think it is offensive, whether you say “no offense” or not. The Thread Question is “Former - please share with us and why”? Light has shared in detail what the objections might be. Light never claimed to be a Christianm, or a Catholic. I think your response is uncharitable.
Sorry you feel that way,** Guan**** - but I simply refuse to allow anybody to misrepresent the Church. This is exactly what Light1111 was doing.
Read the posts.**

As I stated earlier - it is not more charitable** to allow somebody to spread falsehoods about the Church. **He falsely asserted some things about the Church’s teachings on Baptism and homosexuality.

**It is ****far **more charitable to correct them and point them in the right direction.
 
I don’t!!

A condom is a barrier type birth control, like the diaphragm. When in use no life is created, so no life is destroyed.

Barrier ontraceptives are the perfect answer for the loving married couple to use especially if for health reasons they should not have children.
Tell me something, Schaick - why is it that up until 1930 - ALL Protestant denominations condemned ANY sort of artificial birth control?

After the Anglican Church’s 1930 Lambeth conference where they made allowances for contraception in some cases - EVERY Protestant denomination followed suit.

**Any church that changes positions on a doctrinal position cannot be the truth.
 
Sorry you feel that way,** Guan**** - but I simply refuse** to allow anybody to misrepresent the Church. This is exactly what Light1111** was doing.
Read the posts.**

As I stated earlier - it is not more charitable** to allow somebody to spread falsehoods about the Church. **He falsely asserted some things about the Church’s teachings on Baptism and homosexuality.

**It is ****far **more charitable to correct them and point them in the right direction.
It’s all the extra things you throw in, not the correcting what you think is incorrect understanding. There’s a nice way to correct wrong ideas and your way.
 
**Tell me something, Schaick **- why is it that up until 1930 - ALL Protestant denominations condemned ANY sort of artificial birth control?

**After the Anglican Church’s 1930 Lambeth conference where they made allowances for contraception in some cases - **EVERY Protestant denomination followed suit.
**Any church that changes positions on a doctrinal position *cannot ***be the truth.
You haven’t proven that birth control is non Biblical, thus wrong doctrinal position.
 
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