"Forming Consciences for Faithful Citizenship"

[BVM_1221]

I had decided to re-visit this document meant to “help out” Catholic Voters in the 2008 elections. But this document is no longer at the USCCB website. I had wanted to check out if the Bishops had made any effort to properly define “intrinsic”.:coffeeread:

As a former Rocket Scientist (JPL 1973-1986), I have always used the term “intrinsic” as a quality, not a quantity.

As anyone who has browsed The Forums know, we now have an overwhelming number of people who make “intrinsic” a quantity, not a quality. They further argue that “intrinsic” = “infinite”. From this re-definition stems arguements that we must always vote Republican, no matter what. Because the Democratic platform is pro-abortion and the Republican platform is anti-abortion.:banghead:

So, does anybody have any lead as to what the Bishops actually meant when they used the word “intrinsic”? And are copies of the original document somewhere on the Internet, if not at the USCCB website

 

[Rence]

I think this is a re-print of it here:

txcatholic.org/documents/faithful-citizenship-statement.pdf

I’d download it before it disappears…

 

[ChadS]

I don’t know, that’s interesting though. I wonder if they define “intrinsic” in any way or just assume they are using it in the way everybody understands its use. Words we get hung up on and whole arguments pivot on could be words that are just assumed to be right and sound good without necessarily giving it the analysis we are.

ChadS

 

[The_Rock]

I had decided to re-visit this document meant to “help out” Catholic Voters in the 2008 elections. But this document is no longer at the USCCB website. I had wanted to check out if the Bishops had made any effort to properly define “intrinsic”.:coffeeread:

As a former Rocket Scientist (JPL 1973-1986), I have always used the term “intrinsic” as a quality, not a quantity.

As anyone who has browsed The Forums know, we now have an overwhelming number of people who make “intrinsic” a quantity, not a quality. They further argue that “intrinsic” = “infinite”. From this re-definition stems arguements that we must always vote Republican, no matter what. Because the Democratic platform is pro-abortion and the Republican platform is anti-abortion.:banghead:

**So, does anybody have any lead as to what the Bishops actually meant when they used the word “intrinsic”? **And are copies of the original document somewhere on the Internet, if not at the USCCB website

The use of the term “intrinsic” when refering to “intrinsicly evil” acts in the document stems from Thomistic Moral Theology rather than scientific terminology; it is not simply a mater of quantitative vs qualitative. To gain insight into how the Catholic Church uses the term, I would suggest the encyclical by Pope John Paul II, Veritatis splendor
vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_06081993_veritatis-splendor_en.html

From Veritatis splendor:

The object of the deliberate act

1. These theories (proportionalism, consequentialism) can gain a certain persuasive force from their affinity to the scientific mentality, which is rightly concerned with ordering technical and economic activities on the basis of a calculation of resources and profits, procedures and their effects. They seek to provide liberation from the constraints of a voluntaristic and arbitrary morality of obligation which would ultimately be dehumanizing.

Such theories however are not faithful to the Church’s teaching, when they believe they can justify, as morally good, deliberate choices of kinds of behaviour contrary to the commandments of the divine and natural law. These theories cannot claim to be grounded in the Catholic moral tradition…

1. The morality of the human act depends primarily and fundamentally on the “object” rationally chosen by the deliberate will, as is borne out by the insightful analysis, still valid today, made by Saint Thomas

The Church has always taught that one may never choose kinds of behaviour prohibited by the moral commandments expressed in negative form in the Old and New Testaments. As we have seen, Jesus himself reaffirms that these prohibitions allow no exceptions: “If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments… You shall not murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness” (Mt 19:17-18).

 

[The_Rock]

From Veritatis splendor

1. Reason attests that there are objects of the human act which are by their nature “incapable of being ordered” to God, because they radically contradict the good of the person made in his image. These are the acts which, in the Church’s moral tradition, have been termed “intrinsically evil” (intrinsece malum): they are such always and per se, in other words, on account of their very object, and quite apart from the ulterior intentions of the one acting and the circumstances. Consequently, without in the least denying the influence on morality exercised by circumstances and especially by intentions, the Church teaches that “there exist acts which per se and in themselves, independently of circumstances, are always seriously wrong by reason of their object”.131

 

[BVM_1221]

From Veritatis splendor

Ahhh…thank you for that quote:thumbsup:

Again, my impression is that the term “intrinsic” was intended as a quality, much like the word “inherent”; and not intended to be a synonym for “infinite”. :coffeeread:

 

[Beth_Cecilia]

The link to the PDF file seems to be broken, but I suspect it will be up again soon. Maybe they are having tech problems, or maybe they have rewritten or revamped the document. In any event, you can still buy it from them for $4.

usccbpublishing.org/productdetails.cfm?PC=993

They also have a number of other resources available to Churches, families and individual voters- many which cite the document.
faithfulcitizenship.org/church/statements

 

[Beth_Cecilia]

I forgot to mention, the USCCB is changing the look of their whole website. I would not be surprised if there are other strange tics. Expect it back soon.

 

[BVM_1221]

I forgot to mention, the USCCB is changing the look of their whole website. I would not be surprised if there are other strange tics. Expect it back soon.

I do hope for that the Bishops would use the down time to re-write the document, and especially making it clearer just what is meant by “intrinsic”, proportional cause" and the rest of the obscure points