Fornification, Homosexuality, Hypocrites

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Isn’t it a bit ironic how many Christians (not only catholics) criticise homosexuality as we all know it is a sin, yet forget to realize their own actions of fornification as sin. While a reletively small population of people are gay, many are Christian and see fornification as no big deal. While It is true we need to teach the word of god and spread the knowledge of the sin of homosexuality, we need not to forget to preach the word of god that neither will fornificators inherit the kingdom of god. 1 Corinthians 6:9
-your comments?
 
Fornication, adultery, sodomy, even looking upon a woman with lust, are all condemned as sinful in the scriptures. It seems to me that most Christians do accept those commandments as binding. To what extent they follow them faithfully I cannot say.

But I’m curious as to what others think: Has Christian society in general decided that fornication is no longer a sin? Has it now become acceptable if you’re “in love,” or “in a committed relationship” but not married?
 
I’ve been told by more than one Protestant adult that they don’t believe sex outside of marriage is a sin because God is Love and He understands. One 38 year old co-worker told me that she has physical needs that God gave her and so it can’t be very wrong. They also see celibacy as an unatural way of life and so are less likely to view chastity as a requirement for people who aren’t married.

I haven’t known many Catholics in a committed relationship who waited for marriage. As singles not in committed relationships, we seem to do a bit better in the chastity department.
 
But is not the definition of fornification “sex outside of marriage?”
 
society looks down upon gays, active or not. Not the sin itself.

The sin is only used against then when it comes to laws, religious families, but it’ll still be consider wrong even if it wasn’t a sin.

It’s more of prejudice. Would you rather have your kid sinning from straight fornication of sex or a gay kiss? Look at katy perry she’s only kissing while hip hop (other genres) songs have strippers drugs and violence all over. Katy Perry gets more attention because of society.

Also gays have no choice to either stay celibate or stay in a relationship. So straight fornication have options, marriage.
 
concerneduser,

I was really responding to JimG’s open question. Sorry; should have said so.

But to answer yours, of course it’s fornication and a sin. I’ve had the opportunity to engage a number of women in conversation about this topic because I’m a celibate single adult and most people don’t get it.
 
I have also noticed that many Christians take the attitude that sex outside of marriage is not a sin, if there is real love and respect. The word fornication either doesn’t get used by such people, or they use it to mean casual sex.

However, in most cases I find the same people have no problem with gay marriage, so I wouldn’t say they are inconsistent on that point.
 
Isn’t it a bit ironic how many Christians (not only catholics) criticise homosexuality as we all know it is a sin, yet forget to realize their own actions of fornification as sin. While a reletively small population of people are gay, many are Christian and see fornification as no big deal. While It is true we need to teach the word of god and spread the knowledge of the sin of homosexuality, we need not to forget to preach the word of god that neither will fornificators inherit the kingdom of god. 1 Corinthians 6:9
-your comments?

I think you bring up a very good point. But I would remind you that identifying oneself as heterosexual, homosexual, or asexual implies no sin in its name sake in direct relation to sexual orientation. It’s the willful deliberate fornication acts that the Church and God abhors in His Ten Commandments.
Christians (not only catholics) criticize homosexuality as we all know it is a sin
This is because Christians and many Catholics automatically assume homosexuality (“always”) involves the fornication act between the attraction of same sex individuals. (“This is not always true”). There are in fact Homosexuals of live celibate lives despite the fact of such individuals identifying themselves with homosexual tendencies.

As for Heterosexuals not unlike myself, it is fair and truthful to say that Heterosexuals can be just as big or bigger fornicators amongst heterosexual sexual orientation couples than their homosexual counter parts. Heterosexuals have nothing to brag about no more the Homosexuals where acts of fornication is involved.

If one makes the commitment to study Sexual Ethics as it pertains to God and (“His Commandments”) you’ll perceive a very wide scope on just who fornicators are which doesn’t pick favorites with individuals belonging to different sexual orientations.
 
But is not the definition of fornification “sex outside of marriage?”
Yes, it is sexual intercourse outside of marriage. In the case of a married person engaging in sex with someone not their spouse, it would be the sin of adultery.

Just on an anecdotal basis, it would seem that heterosexual fornication is a much greater problem in our society than homosexual behaviors. Indeed, I would say that it is casual unmarried sex that has caused the huge decline in the institution of marriage. One might look on it as pre-marital adultery; what is meant for one’s future spouse is given freely to others. Christians can be casual about it only by ignoring scripture.
 
Yes, it is sexual intercourse outside of marriage. In the case of a married person engaging in sex with someone not their spouse, it would be the sin of adultery.

Just on an anecdotal basis, it would seem that heterosexual fornication is a much greater problem in our society than homosexual behaviors. Indeed, I would say that it is casual unmarried sex that has caused the huge decline in the institution of marriage. One might look on it as pre-marital adultery; what is meant for one’s future spouse is given freely to others. Christians can be casual about it only by ignoring scripture.

Just on an anecdotal basis, it would seem that heterosexual fornication is a much greater problem in our society than homosexual behaviors.
I’m glad you made this point which needs to be addressed more readily in the Catholic Church than is presently seen. There is much on the topic of Sexual Ethics in the Church that rarely comes to the forefront when discussing fornication as merely a topic for Marriage.

Paraphilia/Sexual Deviancy under Fornication

The definition of sodomy was expanded in the 14th century by the Catholic church to include masturbation, oral sex, and any “sex between the legs and from behind” by same-sex male couples. Thomas Aquinas expanded the definition of sodomy even further to include lesbian sex and any sexual act where the woman was not in the bottom submissive position. (a)

As the Catholic church expanded the definition of sodomy to include everything but the “missionary position” on the one hand, it allowed the practice of prostitution during this era to flourish on the other. It was believed that straight men needed an outlet to release their sexual tension or they would commit acts of adultery, rape or homosexuality. The Catholic church and Thomas Aquinas saw prostitution as a “necessary evil.” (a)

It was also during this period as well that the Catholic church decreed that all priests had to be and remain celibate for the priesthood. They believed that wives and women were a hindrance to church mission. (a)

This puts Luther’s views about priests, celibacy and marriage into context; Martin Luther knew that Catholic doctrine had changed based on the desire of its leaders. And there wasn’t anything written in scripture to back their new-found doctrine. As a matter of fact, the Bible speaks about the latter days when people will be forbidden to marry.

It’s important for us to note that the Truth does not change over time - God is Truth and does not change, according to the old and new testaments. But, as we see, what changes are definitions, sexual acceptance, and church doctrines. Therefore, the truth is and will always be that sodomy is sex from the backside. Period. Regardless, of gender, age, race, nationality, or religious affiliation the definition of sodomy is the same for all; there is no discrimination.

Furthermore, the Bible makes no mention of masturbation, oral sex, or same-sex sex. I believe that God created us to experience pleasure in sex. Biological evidence suggest this is in fact true. Case in point: God created women to have two pleasurable spots. One pleasurable spot has absolutely nothing to do with penetration; and neither require ovulation to occur before orgasm. This is highly suggestive that sex is not just for pro-creation.

Even Paul eludes to sex as more than an act of pro-creation in I Corinthians 7. Speaking about sex between couples Paul’s opinion was this (I Cor 7:5-6): “Defraud ye not one another, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for you incontinency (failure to restrain sexual appetite - Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary; 10th edition).

See, in maintaining a marriage according to the principles of the Bible, we keep ourselves from sexual temptation and are thus able to restrain our sexual appetite. That’s another reason why Paul says it is “better to marry than to burn.” It’s not that marriage is a sacrament, it’s that marriage keeps us from temptation of the flesh - in this case, a temptation that can be but isn’t always sexual in nature: lust.

God created us to enjoy the pleasures of sex in the context of a committed relationship. Sex is not a duty for offspring; it’s an intimate act to bring two people to the closest bond humanly possible. This bond, as Paul states, is an example of the type of bond we can expect to have with Christ our Lord for eternity on the new earth. Like marriage is suppose to represent the bond that is created by God which cannot be broken. “What God hath put together let no man put asunder” because “the twain shall be one flesh” - “but I speak concerning Christ and the church.” And this applies equally to all.

When I look at scripture I see liberty in Christ’s doctrine and God’s word. I see the freedom that God gave me to marry whomever I choose, even someone of the same sex; and the liberty to enjoy that union and all the pleasure of sex it brings. In God’s word I am truly free to be happy.

Sexual perversions are conditions in which sexual excitement or orgasm is associated with acts or imagery that are considered unusual within the culture. To avoid problems associated with the stigmatization of labels, the neutral term “paraphilia,” derived from Greek roots meaning “alongside of” and “love,” is used to describe what used to be called sexual perversions. A paraphilia is a condition in which a person’s sexual arousal and gratification depend on a fantasy theme of an unusual situation or object that becomes the principal focus of sexual behavior.

Description

Paraphilias can revolve around a particular sexual object or a particular act. They are defined by DSM-IV as “sexual impulse disorders characterized by intensely arousing, recurrent sexual fantasies, urges and behaviors considered deviant with respect to cultural norms and that produce clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational or other important areas of psychosocial functioning.” The nature of a paraphilia is generally specific and unchanging, and most of the paraphilias are far more common in men than in women.
 
Other types of Fornication include.

Paraphilias differ from what some people might consider “normal” sexual activity in that these behaviors cause significant distress or impairment in areas of life functioning. They do not refer to the normal use of sexual fantasy, activity or objects to heighten sexual excitement where there is no distress or impairment. The most common signs of sexual activity that can be classified as paraphilia include: the inability to resist an impulse for the sexual act, the requirement of participation by nonconsenting or under-aged individuals, legal consequences, resulting sexual dysfunction, and interference with normal social relationships.

Paraphilias include fantasies, behaviors, and/or urges which:
Code:
* involve nonhuman sexual objects, such as shoes or undergarments
* require the suffering or humiliation of oneself or partner
* involve children or other non-consenting partners
The most common paraphilias are:
Code:
* exhibitionism, or exposure of the genitals
* fetishism, or the use of nonliving objects
* frotteurism, or touching and rubbing against a nonconsenting person
* pedophilia, or the focus on prepubescent children
* sexual masochism, or the receiving of humiliation or suffering
* sexual sadism, or the inflicting of humiliation or suffering
* transvestic fetishism, or cross-dressing
* voyeurism, or watching others engage in undressing or sexual activity
A paraphiliac often has more than one paraphilia. Paraphilias often result in a variety of associated problems, such as guilt, depression, shame, isolation, and impairment in the capacity for normal social and sexual relationships. A paraphilia can, and often does, become highly idiosyncratic and ritualized.
Necrophilia, Pedophilia, Sadism, Sexual asphyxia, Sexual deviancy, Telephone scatologia, Transvestism, Urolagnia, Voyeurism, Zoophilia.
 
I have also noticed that many Christians take the attitude that sex outside of marriage is not a sin, if there is real love and respect. The word fornication either doesn’t get used by such people, or they use it to mean casual sex.

However, in most cases I find the same people have no problem with gay marriage, so I wouldn’t say they are inconsistent on that point.
I think the “its not sin because it is love” argument is something that is commonly used in many circles. Heteresexual couples, homosexual couples, cheating, extra marital affairs. I had a friend who said that she saw nothing wrong with a married man with children to leave his wife and family for her as long as it was done in the name of love.

Anyway, I agree, there is a lot of hypocracy for sure. However, it seems to me that the people who usually support sex outside of marriage are also those who support homosexual relations. Additionally, I would say there is a large diffrence between sex outside of marriage for a heterosexual couple and homosexual sexual relationships. In my opinion, homosexuality is a perversion of the natural human love Eros. Whereas, fornication between heterosexuals is taking something that is natural within Eros, but doing it in an inapropiate time of the relationship and for the wrong reasons. So one is an expression of love gone wrong, and the other is love expressed wrongly. These is just my thoughts.
 
I think the “its not sin because it is love” argument is something that is commonly used in many circles. Heteresexual couples, homosexual couples, cheating, extra marital affairs. I had a friend who said that she saw nothing wrong with a married man with children to leave his wife and family for her as long as it was done in the name of love.

Anyway, I agree, there is a lot of hypocracy for sure. However, it seems to me that the people who usually support sex outside of marriage are also those who support homosexual relations. Additionally, I would say there is a large diffrence between sex outside of marriage for a heterosexual couple and homosexual sexual relationships. In my opinion, homosexuality is a perversion of the natural human love Eros. Whereas, fornication between heterosexuals is taking something that is natural within Eros, but doing it in an inapropiate time of the relationship and for the wrong reasons. So one is an expression of love gone wrong, and the other is love expressed wrongly. These is just my thoughts.
I think the “its not sin because it is love” argument is something that is commonly used in many circles.
Well; I would most definitely have to disagree.
How is it you like so many others equate (“love with sex”) ? (“God created Sex primarily for procreation”). There’s no argument in this despite many who are misconceived about this truth. The enjoyment (“married”) man and woman get out of sexual orgasmic bliss is a bonus from our lower primordial human nature which is not the main reason why Sex is so exploited by human minds throughout the world. Where and when do people begin to take responsibility for their actions ?

It can be said that what we yearn for sexually is a symbolic representation of what we need in order to become whole. This means that sexual fantasies symbolically complement the ego consciousness in a way that points us towards wholness. Understanding the symbolic meaning of our sexual fantasies enables us to become less compulsive regarding them, that is, instead of being driven and possessed by them, our range of consciousness can be expanded by them.

The most frequent example of how sexual yearning represents what is needed to bring wholeness is the sexual desire of a man for a woman, and of a woman for a man.
Images of a woman appear in a man’s sexual fantasies because she represents his missing half, the other side of his personality to which he needs to relate if he is to be complete, and vice versa with the woman. Of course this is not to say that this is all sexual yearnings mean. There is always the desire for physical realease of tension, for meeting of the body with body, and for closeness and intimacy with another person that sexuality achieves and expresses. However; ("It is important to see that in addition to these aspects of sexuality there is also a spiritual and psychological meaning.

We must respect our spontaneous sexual fantasies and genital stirrings as more than mere physical messages.
 
Well; I would most definitely have to disagree.
You’re apparently disagreeing with this statement:
I think the “its not sin because it is love” argument is something that is commonly used in many circles.
But the balance of your post doesn’t seem to address the issue at all. Perhaps you could summarize your position more succinctly.
 
You’re apparently disagreeing with this statement:But the balance of your post doesn’t seem to address the issue at all. Perhaps you could summarize your position more succinctly.
Just how much more succinct would you prefer I summarize ?

Heterosexual couples, homosexual couples, cheating, extra marital affairs

Maybe you can explain just what does this “love argument” have to do with cheating
couples where there is “no real love” at all. Again what does love have to do with sex in this context ?
 
Just how much more succinct would you prefer I summarize ?

Heterosexual couples, homosexual couples, cheating, extra marital affairs

Maybe you can explain just what does this “love argument” have to do with cheating
couples where there is “no real love” at all. Again what does love have to do with sex in this context ?
The original statement from CSUNGerrie was this:
I think the “its not sin because it is love” argument is something that is commonly used in many circles. Heteresexual couples, homosexual couples, cheating, extra marital affairs. I had a friend who said that she saw nothing wrong with a married man with children to leave his wife and family for her as long as it was done in the name of love.
The point was that many people try to justify all sorts of extramarital sexual activity simply because of ‘love.’ That’s often the excuse put forward to justify pre-marital sex, extra-marital affairs, and homosexual sex.

It seemed that you disagreed, but I wasn’t sure whether the disagreement was that: a) no, people don’t use that argument to excuse their actions, or b) those actions really are ok, or c) love has nothing to do with sex anyway.

Not trying to put words in your mouth; just confused.
 
Wow, this took off, and thank you all for your comments. It is a healthy discussion that today is not really addressed unfortunately.
 
Isn’t it a bit ironic how many Christians (not only catholics) criticise homosexuality as we all know it is a sin, yet forget to realize their own actions of fornification as sin. While a reletively small population of people are gay, many are Christian and see fornification as no big deal. While It is true we need to teach the word of god and spread the knowledge of the sin of homosexuality, we need not to forget to preach the word of god that neither will fornificators inherit the kingdom of god. 1 Corinthians 6:9
-your comments?
I understand your basic point and I quite agree, but I disagree with your statement that homosexuality is a sin. While the Church does teach that homosexual inclinations are disordered, the inclination by itself does not constitute sin, as it resides largely outside a person’s ability to control. Of course, homosexual actions and practices are sinful, but the inclination to same sex attraction, though disordered, does not constitute sin if it does not arise with full consent of the will. See, for example, Catechism of the Catholic Church 2357-2359.
 
Sex & Love are two different things, sex is more like an animal act, done by many people, sometimes I wonder if Our God didn`t make the sex desire too strong. Look at the trouble sex causes, & makes people do terrible things . No disrespect Meant toward God
 
Isn’t it a bit ironic how many Christians (not only catholics) criticise homosexuality as we all know it is a sin, yet forget to realize their own actions of fornification as sin. While a reletively small population of people are gay, many are Christian and see fornification as no big deal. While It is true we need to teach the word of god and spread the knowledge of the sin of homosexuality, we need not to forget to preach the word of god that neither will fornificators inherit the kingdom of god. 1 Corinthians 6:9
-your comments?
I think there’s not so much of a double standard as is being suggested here. Most of the people who I know who are OK with fornication are also more or less OK with homosexuality, using the same justifications for both.
 
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