"Foul" language

[Newbie2]

Joseph Bottum referred to this blog when he commented on Doug Kmiec’s self serving eulogy of Fr. Neuhaus (not the example I was looking for but certainly fits the bill)

shadow-of-eternity.blogspot.com/2009/01/doug-kmiec-on-fr-neuhaus.html

Some context here:

proecclesia.blogspot.com/2009/01/prof-kmiec-eulogizes-fr-neuhaus-in.html

These are very educated men using the f bomb in a very targeted way.

Make your case for or against these examples. I find them totally appropriate as well as my treatment of the little weasel admin guy.

dj

Where are these examples? Please cut n paste some quotes. I didn’t find anything on these links.

 

[djeter]

Where are these examples? Please cut n paste some quotes. I didn’t find anything on these links.

It’s right there, friend. I really can’t help you.

dj

 

[edwest2]

Deo, I want to print and frame that post on my wall, although I won’t because that would be weird.

Those are my thoughts exactly, but I’m wondering if there is any solid moral grounds for people who hold that swear words are sinful no matter the context. They are certainly free to have an opinion on the use of the words in a literary or expressive sense, but is there any generic moral objection?

“generic moral objection”? Why generic? In the 1960s, there was literally a list of words that could never be said on television.

The Motion Picture Production Code was observed by Hollywood until the 1960s.

historymatters.gmu.edu/d/5099/

Hollywood was also under pressure from the Legion of Decency which was started by the Catholic Church.

At one time, TV programs and movies were acceptable to Christians, but certain individuals demanded their “freedom” from all restraints, which bore fruit in real life with little kids cussing out mom in mall parking lots.

Peace,
Ed

 

[edwest2]

I’ve been perusing the forum for topics on swearing, and found none which directly address my questions/points. Now, clearly taking the Lord’s name in vain or demeaning the place of eternal damnation into a mere expletive is wrong and sinful. Also, I will grant you the F-word because it is based on the act which is only naturally served in a loving marriage. I have forced myself out of the habit of using any of those in the last few months.

My question concerns words who’s meaning (usually) is not referring to anything sinful nor demeaning the Lord, and yet is still considered sinful. I would use the argument that it’s all about what you’re saying, not your words. Regardless of my words an insult is an insult no matter how small. Granted, I limit my usage according to appropriate time, place, and company and I use it strictly in an expletive sense, no negative feelings (except toward myself for stubbing my toe or something)

Something I often see as an argument against is that it’s offensive to many people and why would you want to offend brothers and sisters in Christ? But then I ask isn’t most of what we say probably offensive to someone? If I start talking about my religion I will obviously offend those who are not Christian. What if I’m talking about politics and someone who disagrees walks by? Those are the most pragmatic examples, but there are others, albeit they are more hyperbolic even if they do happen in real life.

I guess what I’m getting at is, do we want the abolition of free speech based on if something is offensive to us? I just don’t see the point of having free speech if there’s nothing to protect because it’s all been banned. I’m perfectly fine if someone doesn’t want to use it themselves. Although I certainly don’t agree with saying someone who uses foul language “has problems expressing themselves” or “has a limited intellect” which I’ve never been told personally but these kinds of statements are always brought out. Trust me, often when using an expletive in a non harmful way it can convey a whole new/different meaning than what many would call “baby talk.” That being the greatly varied way people swear without actually swearing. “gosh darn it” for example (Not that I say the expletive variant of that statement, just using an example)

Is there anything explicit in the Catechism on this?
What about words like “leg” that used to be very offensive, why is it ok now?

And by creating such a hyper-reactive, negative stigma about these certain words aren’t you locking the bad meaning in place? Honestly, there’s no victory to be had here. Either you lock the meaning in place, or you stop getting offended and they (whoever “they” are) come up with new words. Expletives will abound no matter what anyone does.

I don’t mean to sound condescending, I just love the freedoms, in this case speech, afforded to us in this great nation. Or at least they should be.

“free speech”? What is that? Primarily, free speech is this country does not mean you can cuss somebody out, or use f*** in everyday talk. It’s wrong, it’s offensive and it requires a desire to do so.

Free speech in this country refers to men being unafraid to criticize their government properly. Problems are not solved by cussing and swearing at the other person, even if those words are part of your vocabulary. It involves intelligence, politeness and clarity. It means being unafraid to stand up for what you believe in regardless of what others might think. But that does not give you the right to, for example, go on an internet forum as noBody7745 and cuss out another person for kicks or because you think you can get away with it because nobody knows who you are.

I do not and will not allow the use of certain words under whatever exception anybody can dream up. Once wrong, always wrong. It is fictional to think that cussing and swearing will one day morph into common, everyday speech.

Peace,
Ed

 

[addictedkoala]

“free speech”? What is that? Primarily, free speech is this country does not mean you can cuss somebody out, or use f*** in everyday talk. It’s wrong, it’s offensive and it requires a desire to do so.

The courts (speaking of the U.S.) would beg to differ with you on that

Free speech in this country refers to men being unafraid to criticize their government properly.

That’s what people who don’t like individual rights like to say. Sorry, but even if purposely offending people is morally wrong to God, you don’t have a right to not be offended

Problems are not solved by cussing and swearing at the other person, even if those words are part of your vocabulary. It involves intelligence, politeness and clarity. It means being unafraid to stand up for what you believe in regardless of what others might think. But that does not give you the right to, for example, go on an internet forum as noBody7745 and cuss out another person for kicks or because you think you can get away with it because nobody knows who you are.I do not and will not allow the use of certain words under whatever exception anybody can dream up. Once wrong, always wrong.

Problems are solved by doing and thinking, if I swear during that and still come to a correct conclusion my problem has been solved. Likewise, I DO have the right to cuss someone out. Like I said above, you are perfectly free to your opinion on the intelligent usage (or non-usage) of the words, but I fail to see anything morally wrong, especially because God did not invent English. Just because society arbitrarily associates certain combinations of phonetics as being “bad” does not mean they are evil.

It is fictional to think that cussing and swearing will one day morph into common, everyday speech.

So I assume you still consider these words profane or dirty:

fie
tush
leg
Quaint

also you might consider that the S and F words didn’t become known as profanity until last two centuries. The only reason this may not change is because people overreact to certain words. If that didn’t happen people wouldn’t say them for mere shock value

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Problems are solved by doing and thinking, if I swear during that and still come to a correct conclusion my problem has been solved. Likewise, I DO have the right to cuss someone out. Like I said above, you are perfectly free to your opinion on the intelligent usage (or non-usage) of the words, but I fail to see anything morally wrong, especially because God did not invent English. Just because society arbitrarily associates certain combinations of phonetics as being “bad” does not mean they are evil.

So I assume you still consider these words profane or dirty:

fie
tush
leg
Quaint

also you might consider that the S and F words didn’t become known as profanity until last two centuries. The only reason this may not change is because people overreact to certain words. If that didn’t happen people wouldn’t say them for mere shock value

I wouldn’t bother telling him all that. Linguistics (specifically semantics) is something the anti-swearing crowd are hopelessly ignorant about. I say hopeless because such a science is a foreign language to them.