Foundation

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Eden:
The only answer left for Fredericks now is that the Bible just dropped from the heavens.
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I see that you did not have anything to refute the Catholic doctrine I supplied. As you should not.
 
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Fredricks:
I have answered them, yes I gave him some extra questions that I have not addressed but I have answered him. Catholics, according to the sources I provided, and Protestants AGREE on this. There is nothing from official Catholic doctrine that says that a council was needed to set the Bible. If it does, it contradicts the First Vatican council.
I answered his personal interpretation by clearly showing what the Bible says and REFUSING to add to it. I cannot make up something up. He even suggested I drop scripture and give him an answer that makes sense, which I will not do. He does not like my answers, even though some of them are what he is supposed to officially believe.
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Okay, I think our posts crossed and you didn’t intend to “beg the question” a second time with “needed”.

But, your line that I “suggested [you] drop Scripture” is not true. My implication was (and anyone who reads my post can see) that you are having such a tough time providing the Scripture I asked for earlier in the thread that I would be happy with any answer that made sense. Scripture or not. I just want an answer rather than an evasion.
 
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Fredricks:
You cannot show me from official Catholic doctrine that the council was required. I can, and did, show you that it was not.
What exactly do we disagree about on inspiration? I do not see it. What are the “reasons” you sited?
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It has already been agreed that God doesn’t need anything.

Let’s get back to what he chose to do. Thanks.
 
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Eden:
It has already been agreed that God doesn’t need anything.

Let’s get back to what he chose to do. Thanks.
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You do not have an official Catholic doctrine to refute anything I have said.
 
Fredericks:
You cannot show me from official Catholic doctrine that the council was required. I can, and did, show you that it was not.
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Begging the question.

Diversion.
Fredericks:
What exactly do we disagree about on inspiration? I do not see it. What are the “reasons” you sited?
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We don’t disagree on inspiration. We disagree on the foundation for that belief. Yours is inadequte until you show otherwise, now please get to work on that and let’s stop playing around with the truth.
 
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awfulthings9:
Begging the question.

Diversion.

We don’t disagree on inspiration. We disagree on the foundation for that belief. Yours is inadequte until you show otherwise, now please get to work on that and let’s stop playing around with the truth.
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V
Elaborate.
and when you do that, show me one quote from Catholic doctrine that backs up your assertion. Just one. The foundation is God himself. Not the church. And that is official Catholic doctrine unless you canshow me otherwise. I do not debate Catholics personal interpretation.
 
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Fredricks:
You do not have an official Catholic doctrine to refute anything I have said.
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I already answered your First Vatican Council quote in post #264.
Here it is again:

This quote is from Ch.2 “On Revelation” and has been heavily edited by Fredericks:

    • The complete books of the old and the new Testament with all their parts, as they are listed in the decree of the said council and as they are found in the old Latin Vulgate edition, are to be received as sacred and canonical.
      • These books the church holds to be sacred and canonical
      • not because she subsequently approved them by her authority after they had been composed by unaided human skill,
      • nor simply because they contain revelation without error,
      • but because,
      • being written under the inspiration of the holy Spirit,
      • they have God as their author,
      • and were as such committed to the church.
      The entire document on the First Vatican Council is available here for context:

      www.piar.hu/councils/ecum20.htm
 
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Eden:
I already answered your First Vatican Council quote in post #264.
Here it is again:

This quote is from Ch.2 “On Revelation” and has been heavily edited by Fredericks:

    • The complete books of the old and the new Testament with all their parts, as they are listed in the decree of the said council and as they are found in the old Latin Vulgate edition, are to be received as sacred and canonical.
      • These books the church holds to be sacred and canonical
      • not because she subsequently approved them by her authority after they had been composed by unaided human skill,
      • nor simply because they contain revelation without error,
      • but because,
      • being written under the inspiration of the holy Spirit,
      • they have God as their author,
      • and were as such committed to the church.
      The entire document on the First Vatican Council is available here for context:

      www.piar.hu/councils/ecum20.htm
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    1. That quote supports everything I just said.
 
Fredericks you are supposed to be the one answering, remember? The Catholic side has already been put forth.
 
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Eden:
Fredericks you are supposed to be the one answering, remember? The Catholic side has already been put forth.
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I will answer the mans questions, but rest assured when Catholics are unwilling to support their churches official teaching, I will point it out.
 
God committed the scriptures to the church. Says so in your doctine.
Where is the personal discernment that you claim in that statement? The early Christians received it from God. God was in control
 
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Fredricks:
That quote supports everything I just said.
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Post 262*:*

“These books the church holds to be sacred and canonical not because she subsequently approved them by her authority…”

After post 264 from me, you have used the expanded quote. Including the fact that they were “committed to the church”.

I don’t see any mention of the Bible dropping from the heavens in that document. Hmm.
 
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Eden:
Post 262*:*

“These books the church holds to be sacred and canonical not because she subsequently approved them by her authority…”

After post 264 from me, you have used the expanded quote. Including the fact that they were “committed to the church”.

I don’t see any mention of the Bible dropping from the heavens in that document. Hmm.
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Committed to the church means given to the church. Not that they had to decide. God did the deciding for them. How can you argue with Catholic doctrine with your own personal interpretation?
 
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Fredricks:
God committed the scriptures to the church. Says so in your doctine.
Where is the personal discernment that you claim in that statement? The early Christians received it from God. God was in control
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Are you genuinely not familiar with the phases of the New Testament? There are three distinct phases:

FORMATION, DISCUSSION, FIXATION

www.newadvent.org/cathen/03274a.htm

Are you going to support your theory that the Bible dropped from the heavens now?
 
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Eden:
Are you genuinely not familiar with the phases of the New Testament? There are three distinct phases:

FORMATION, DISCUSSION, FIXATION

www.newadvent.org/cathen/03274a.htm

Are you going to support your theory that the Bible dropped from the heavens now?
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I am using the Catechism and Eden is using New Advent, interesting.
 
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Eden:
Committed to what church? Look in my signature for the answer.
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The body of believers that followed Christ. Some of which later on became known as Roman Catholic, Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and by virtue of following the original teachings of Christ, Protestants.
 
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Fredricks:
I am using the Catechism and Eden is using New Advent, interesting.
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You are actually using me as a diversion from answering Awful’s tough questions.

You weren’t going to respond to me ever again, remember?

For anyone who does not realize this, please refer to the thread “Traditions of Man: Prohibitions of Alcohol”.

It seems you won’t hold to your principles if the situation warrants a change of direction.
 
Fredricks wants to know if God needs a council.
The answer, of course, is no.
Man needs the council in order to determine which books God wanted to have published as his official Word.
God used the council so that man would know which books were inspired and which were not.
Simple as that.
Now the question is, does Fredrick’s need the council (trust the council) to tell him which books are inspired?
The answer, of course, is yes, since he accepts that the Bible is God’s Word.
 
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Eden:
You are actually using me as a diversion from answering Awful’s tough questions.

You weren’t going to respond to me ever again, remember?

For anyone who does not realize this, please refer to the thread “Traditions of Man: Prohibitions of Alcohol”.

It seems you won’t hold to your principles if the situation warrants a change of direction.
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Its hard not to answer someone who spends ALL their time on this board. How are the kids?
 
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