Foundation

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Fredricks:
The body of believers that followed Christ. Some of which later on became known as Roman Catholic, Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and by virtue of following the original teachings of Christ, Protestants.
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I see you believe the Latin Rite is the only rite in the Catholic Church.
Are you aware that not just “Roman Catholics” are members of the Catholic Church?

It is interesting that so many Protestants are unaware of how many rites are contained within the Catholic Church.
 
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Fredricks:
I will answer the mans questions, but rest assured when Catholics are unwilling to support their churches official teaching, I will point it out.
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Oh gosh, I’m not unwilling.

It is just that your questions have:

A) begged the question
B) misreprented the Catholic view.

Actually, you will answer my question for me. See, the reason I asked question 8 is that, if you are unable to provide the burden of proof I’ve asked for, you have effectively validated the Catholic position. Please go back and re-read my post for a break-down of the logic.

And, by the way, you’re doing a great job of supporting the Catholic position. Many have pm’d me to tell me so.
 
Joe Gloor:
Fredricks wants to know if God needs a council.
The answer, of course, is no.
Man needs the council in order to determine which books God wanted to have published as his official Word.
God used the council so that man would know which books were inspired and which were not.
Simple as that.
Now the question is, does Fredrick’s need the council (trust the council) to tell him which books are inspired?
The answer, of course, is yes, since he accepts that the Bible is God’s Word.
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Thanks Joe, but is that official Catholic doctrine? Just so I could know.
Your last answer is no by the way.
 
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awfulthings9:
Oh gosh, I’m not unwilling.

It is just that your questions have:

A) begged the question
B) misreprented the Catholic view.

Actually, you will answer my question for me. See, the reason I asked question 8 is that, if you are unable to provide the burden of proof I’ve asked for, you have effectively validated the Catholic position. Please go back and re-read my post for a break-down of the logic.

And, by the way, you’re doing a great job of supporting the Catholic position. Many have pm’d me to tell me so.
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Did you notice Awful, you have not said how I misrepresented, could you point that out. Hello to your PM supporters!
 
I think, Fredericks, that until you answer my questions “later in the week”, you have effectively opened yourself up to discussion with the larger community. Until I get the answers, our conversation is at a stand-still.
 
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Fredricks:
Thanks Joe, but is that official Catholic doctrine? Just so I could know.
Your last answer is no by the way.
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Is what official Catholic Doctrine?
That the council is correct? Of course it is.
And yet, you accept the council as having the final say of what should be in the Bible.
How do you trust it to be correct?
 
Are you going to be answering Awful?

You are shooting wildly in the dark to avoid actually answering any substantial questions.

So, you believe the Bible dropped out of the heavens. Can you tell us a little more about that?
 
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awfulthings9:
I think, Fredericks, that until you answer my questions “later in the week”, you have effectively opened yourself up to discussion with the larger community. Until I get the answers, our conversation is at a stand-still.
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I would suspect that because you cannot point out how I disagree with official Catholic doctrine, you would be best to say that.
 
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Eden:
Are you going to be answering Awful?

You are shooting wildly in the dark to avoid actually answering any substantial questions.

So, you believe the Bible dropped out of the heavens. Can you tell us a little more about that?
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Another Catholic who cannot point out from Catholic doctrine why I am wrong.
 
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awfulthings9:
You know, I read a great anti-abortion book recently by Kreeft called the Unaborted Socrates, in which Socrates comes to modern day times and, through his trade-mark questioning, shows the errors of the pro-choice mentality held by an abortion doctor, a secular philosopher, and a psychiatrist.

If I had approached that book with Frederick’s attitude, I would have concluded that, because the fictionalized Socrates had “questioned” life principles, he must, himself, be shaky in his opposition to abortion.

Knowing how Socratic questioning works, however, I understood differently.
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Since, we’re waiting in the wings. . .The Unaborted Socrates is fascinating!!!
 
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Fredricks:
Another Catholic who cannot point out from Catholic doctrine why I am wrong.
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Wrong that the Bible just dropped out of the heavens? That can be very easily pointed out.
 
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Fredricks:
I would suspect that because you cannot point out how I disagree with official Catholic doctrine, you would be best to say that.
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fyi -
120 It was by the apostolic Tradition that the Church discerned which writings are to be included in the list of the sacred books. - Catechism of the Catholic Church
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I would suspect that because you cannot point out how I disagree with official Catholic doctrine, you would be best to say that.
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The Catechism teaches since Sacred Scripture is inspired, it must always be read and interpreted in the light of the same Holy Spirit by whom it was written. We look to the family of the faith and the magisterium for correct interpretation of the words of Sacred Scripture, so that they do not remain a dead letter but rather “the living memorial of God’s Word” (111, 113)

Interpreting the inspired word of God is a task of the magisterium or teaching office in the Church. The Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation reminds us that “the task of authentically interpreting the word of God, whether written or handed on, has been entrusted to the living magisterium of the Church, whose authority is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ” (Dei Verbum 10)
  • Bishop Donald W. Wuerl The Catholic Way
 
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Fredricks:
I would suspect that because you cannot point out how I disagree with official Catholic doctrine, you would be best to say that.
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Oh gosh, I’m not backing down from this discussion. You’ll see that I’m around for the long haul. We are just not willing to let you distract us from your job right now. I’d be happy to prove Tradition, but I’m holding you to your agreement.

By the way, to answer your question, It’s very simple, you “disagree” with official Catholic doctrine in that you are limiting - without good reason - God to Scripture alone. This line of questioning is designed to show the errors with that.

And, by the way, your comment suggests you ignored my other post. Nothing new, though.

I’m simply implying that you have used the “I’m debating Awfulthings exclusively” defense way too often in the past. Until you actually answer my questions, I’m suggesting that you no longer use that as an excuse to hide from the other excellent questions.
 
Joe Gloor:
fyi -
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These books the Church holds to be **sacred and canonical
o not because she subsequently approved them ** by her authority after they had been composed by unaided human skill,

So Joe, who are you going to believe? Catechism or First Vatican Council.

Actually, as one Catholic apologist pointed out on CARM possibly, the Catechism’s statement is related to discernment, which certainly history records people trying to decide, no doubt about that, but the First Vatican Council states who was in control.
I would be happy to call it a contradiction, because there are quite a few, but that would be a whole other post.
I personally would not call it such although others would.
 
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Eden:
The Catechism teaches since Sacred Scripture is inspired, it must always be read and interpreted in the light of the same Holy Spirit by whom it was written. We look to the family of the faith and the magisterium for correct interpretation of the words of Sacred Scripture, so that they do not remain a dead letter but rather “the living memorial of God’s Word” (111, 113)

Interpreting the inspired word of God is a task of the magisterium or teaching office in the Church. The Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation reminds us that “the task of authentically interpreting the word of God, whether written or handed on, has been entrusted to the living magisterium of the Church, whose authority is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ” (Dei Verbum 10)
  • Bishop Donald W. Wuerl The Catholic Way
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Yes, I know what you guys teach. I am merely pointing out the inconsistency in your position.
 
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awfulthings9:
Oh gosh, I’m not backing down from this discussion. You’ll see that I’m around for the long haul. We are just not willing to let you distract us from your job right now. I’d be happy to prove Tradition, but I’m holding you to your agreement.

By the way, to answer your question, It’s very simple, you “disagree” with official Catholic doctrine in that you are limiting - without good reason - God to Scripture alone. This line of questioning is designed to show the errors with that.

And, by the way, your comment suggests you ignored my other post. Nothing new, though.

I’m simply implying that you have used the “I’m debating Awfulthings exclusively” defense way too often in the past. Until you actually answer my questions, I’m suggesting that you no longer use that as an excuse to hide from the other excellent questions.
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I am answering all that I see. Its lunch time though. I have answered excellent, and, not so excellent questions.
I will go back to work on my post though. You guys are as pathetic as me.
GO HAVE FUN.
Yes, I know take my own advice.
 
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Fredricks:
These books the Church holds to be **sacred and canonical
o not because she subsequently approved them ** by her authority after they had been composed by unaided human skill,
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Actually, I’m not sure why you keep citing this. None of us are disagreeing with it. You are setting up a straw man argument by claiming that we believe the Scriptures are sacred and canonical because the councils approved them. Not true. We agree they are such because of God. Our contention, which you keep ignoring, is the means by which he chose to deliver that information to us.

Now, to turn it back to you. We propose that he chose to “reveal” through magisterium and Tradition.

One of your questions is to prove how he chose to reveal it through the Protestant perspective.

You are making up a false Catholic claim because you have failed completely to demonstrate your alternative view.

But go ahead, put up another post that has nothing to do with answering my questions.

God bless.
 
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