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maurin
Guest
that is an opinion, and as such has merit and is valuable. However, as Old Salt has pointed out, it is not the same opinion as those speaking for the Holy Father.
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adoglover1956
Guest
Maurin…with no disrespect toward anyone…this is not an opinion. All too often people accuse their priests of being lenient in allow abuses that are a result of liberal tendencies. This seems to be just the opposite. A priest with conservative tendencies (I’m thankful for them!) going the other way and being lenient in allowing* potential* abuses in the other direction. He also seems to be politely indicating not to make a habit of it.
Now on the illicit part. The sacraments may be valid…but being illicit makes them outside the realm of what the Church considers acceptable. There are priests that continue to be priests but have lost the faculty to offer the sacraments. Catholics have been warned to avoid attending those Masses and avoiding the sacraments unless a very serious condition exists…such as iminent death.
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TheRealJuliane
Guest
She will know that she can feel safe with you, because you have become a weapon even if you don’t carry a gun.Ahah
I don’t plan in meeting any girl in Krav Maga, but it’s certainly a plus when meeting a girl to tell her “yes, I go to mass, I work hard, I do a masters and I do Krav Maga for fun.”
I want to take the course but I am chicken so far. (I am female)
M
maurin
Guest
I’m so sorry to disagree with you, but yes, the Church has spoken. Assisting at a Mass with the Society does fulfill one’s obligations as long as one has no desire to separate onesself from the Church or the reigning Holy Father.
Yours is an opinion, and as such has merit, and has value. However the representative of the former Holy Father has spoken, and his word has not been contradicted by the present AHoly Father or his representative.
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adoglover1956
Guest
No problem with civilized disagreement!
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sicutincensum
Guest
Quoting Blessed JPII, “Be not afraid”!
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maurin
Guest
Of course not.No problem with civilized disagreement!
But if you disagree with the Ecclesia Dei commission’s published opinion, iwill you also disagree with Fr Z? He is considered Traditional by some. I do not believe that many who goto the Society would consider him Traditional. I assume his opinion on the Ecclesia Dei statemrnt would be acceptable to many on this forum.
wdtprs.com/blog/2011/10/quaeritur-sspx-and-fulfilling-sunday-mass-obligation/
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adoglover1956
Guest
I tried accessing that page…but it seems to be unavailable.
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maurin
Guest
I typed into google: sspx mass fulfills Sunday obligation.I tried accessing that page…but it seems to be unavailable.
The first link is to a Catholic Family News article which is pro SSPX. The next three are quaeritur…" linking to Fr Z’s blog, and the article I tried to cite.
Sorry for the confusion!
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piouswoman
Guest
I left the SSPX about four months ago also. I spent six and half years there. I am not sure that the SSPX does fulfill the Sunday obligation, but that is not really the point, they do advise the faithful NOT to go to the Novus Ordo, that the Novus Ordo is a bad mass. Thinking logically, they have no right or ability to say these things. If fulfilling one’s Sunday obligation involves being exposed to being told the NO mass is bad, and one shouldn’t attend masses of the Catholic church, then in my opinion, one should not go to the SSPX.
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maurin
Guest
Of course you are welcome to believe that the Society Mass does not fulfill the Sunday obligation, but those who speak for the Pope disagree. It most certainly does, with caveats, of course.
Thinking logically, they most certainly do have the right to express the point of view that the deficiencies of the NO Mass are dangerous to the faith of the Faithful. As Bishop of Campos in Brazil, Msgr Castro de Mayer retained the Mass of all time in his Diocese up until his retiremenr, and he refused the NO Mass. The NO Mass was offered by only a couple of the Priests in his Diocese, with the Bishop’s blessing.
Your opinion is certainly valid, and is valuable. But the opinion of the Ecclesia Dei Commission does carry more weight. One is able to fulfill one’s obligation at the Society Masses, provided one does not do so with the intention of separating onesself from His Holiness, and of course the Ecclesia Dei Commission does not recommend attendance. But they have made clear that one does fulfill one’s obligation, and if one is so moved, to contribute modestly to tyhe collection.
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piouswoman
Guest
Firstly, I never said that the Society masses do not fulfill one’s obligation. I said that I really don’t know. However, if the Church was aware that the Society priests, a good many of them, preach from the pulpit that one should not go to the Novus Ordo because the Novus Ordo is a bad mass, then they would most likely squelch the idea that a Catholic can fulfill his Sunday obligation there…it’s that simple.
Here is thought for you…the church has embraced ecumenism and religious liberty since Vatican II and the modernist infiltration…do you really think that the Church, forbidding people to go to Society masses, is the appropriate thing for them to do without the risk of losing their credibility?..in other words…if they say one can be saved in any religion, they would be hypocrites to forbid anyone going to Society masses, would they not?
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piouswoman
Guest
Also, I am sorry, but they (SSPX) haven’t the “right” to speak of deficiencies in the NO…nothing gives them the right to express a point of view contrary to the pope and the teachings of the Catholic church, and still call themselves Catholic. They have no jurisdiction, they do not answer to the pope…they have no Catholic rights.
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PhilOSophia
Guest
Well, is one allowed to critique a Mass? I think we are. One can favour the 1962 or 1920 typical edition.
You’re not allowed to compare and contrast on here, as per the terms of this forum, but I think a Catholic can say: “I don’t like the N.O. mass, and here is why…”.
To cut to the chase:
The N.O. mass could be abrogated tomorrow. It’s is not like a book of the New testament, or something. I think, an old, now deceased, pal of mine even asked the current Pope, through an intermediary, to bring back the 1920’s mass.
Even the manner of the making of this mass invites critique. If Cardingal Bugnini and/or a committee can fabricate one in a few years, and local priests can add fashionable things to it, then why can’t I propose changes?
One thing is working against another here: They want the same veneration as was given to the old rite BUT they also want the leeway to make swingeing changes very rapidly AND make a sacred rite more ‘people-friendly’.
Result: Contradiction. Confusion. Discord.
It’s inevitable. And prating about obedience when the faithful are confused and scandalised and worse, bored by progressive clergy making their own, disobedient changes to discipline and even doctrine …
It’s a recipe for a stroke if you don’t see the dog chawing on its own tail, to coin a phrase
Just sit tight, do your devotions and go to the most solemn Mass you can find. If the local priest is making the Protestant Mistake and there’s no more rigourous Mass to be had, go to the SSPX. If the priest there constantly bangs on about how bad the wider church is, move on.
You’re not allowed to compare and contrast on here, as per the terms of this forum, but I think a Catholic can say: “I don’t like the N.O. mass, and here is why…”.
To cut to the chase:
The N.O. mass could be abrogated tomorrow. It’s is not like a book of the New testament, or something. I think, an old, now deceased, pal of mine even asked the current Pope, through an intermediary, to bring back the 1920’s mass.
Even the manner of the making of this mass invites critique. If Cardingal Bugnini and/or a committee can fabricate one in a few years, and local priests can add fashionable things to it, then why can’t I propose changes?
One thing is working against another here: They want the same veneration as was given to the old rite BUT they also want the leeway to make swingeing changes very rapidly AND make a sacred rite more ‘people-friendly’.
Result: Contradiction. Confusion. Discord.
It’s inevitable. And prating about obedience when the faithful are confused and scandalised and worse, bored by progressive clergy making their own, disobedient changes to discipline and even doctrine …
It’s a recipe for a stroke if you don’t see the dog chawing on its own tail, to coin a phrase
Just sit tight, do your devotions and go to the most solemn Mass you can find. If the local priest is making the Protestant Mistake and there’s no more rigourous Mass to be had, go to the SSPX. If the priest there constantly bangs on about how bad the wider church is, move on.
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maurin
Guest
alas, I too am sorry, but yes, at this moment in time, they do. What gives them that right is more than 1500 years of usus antiquor. Tradition.
And unless the or a Pope imposes silemce on the Society, the Society will comtimue to have the “right” to keep the Traditional Faith from fading into memory, or worse, into oblivion. After all, they kept the Mass of all Time from a similar fate, and the Ecclesia Dei Societies have that Mass today thamks to the SSPX.
One can only wonder what more the ED societies will have in the future grâce à la Society and her perseverence.
M
maurin
Guest
preaching that from the pulpit? Are you quite certain you were attending a Society Mass? With a Society Priest? The Faith is preached during the Sermon. Nothing else. That is my experience. So sorry you had a different one.
Your logic, as your opinion of the fufillment of one’s Sunday obligation, most certainly is not that of the Ecclesia Dei Society.
I believe one is safer sticking with their published opinions.
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Tradycja
Guest
Um…you mean…to quote Our Lord…Matthew 14:27Quoting Blessed JPII, “Be not afraid”!
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Tradycja
Guest
As much as many posters on this forum are in denial about it, the Church is in crisis. As the younger generation we feel it more. Really the only way nowadays is online Catholic dating sites and facebook. Unless you live in some super-Orthodox area, the only way to find a Catholic girl nowadays is to do a long distance relationship. It’s also extremely hard to meet anyone at church let alone a woman. Let’s face it Catholics are generally unfriendly. Sign up for CatholicMatch.com or Traditional Catholic singles. Another way is to search people on Facebook that are members of various traditional Catholic facebook groups and then send a message with a friend request.
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piouswoman
Guest
Yes, maurin, during the sermon. You know exactly what I mean so it is rude for you to ask if I am certain I was attending a Society Mass with a Society priest. Rude and juvenile.
You seem to think that Ecclesia Dei is an effective commission…and that is what it is, a pontifical commission, not a Society as you have stated. They are to promote the Latin mass, but the great majority of the modern bishops ignore Ecclesia Dei, and do everything to hinder its application.
So…it is a battle between the traditionalists and the conciliarists…and as I pointed out above and which you have chosen to ignore, is the fact that the Church can’t really deny the Society their masses and those who choose to go to them without appearing hypocritical in view of the new ecumenism and the new religious liberty that they embrace.
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Allegra
Guest
If your home parish has an opportunity for a CHRP or ACTS retreat, I recommend that you take it. It will really help you build a bond in your parish. As far as finding a mate, I would not close yourself off to other Catholic girls. Just because they currently don’t attend an EF Mass doesn’t mean they wouldn’t be happy to if they have someone handsome to take them. If my fiance felt strongly about attending the EF Mass, I wouldn’t care, providing the community was in full communion with the Church.
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