Thank you David for this post and I am sorry for loss. It is always hard to lose a child, but I hope you do understand that a miscarriage is a natural death while abortion is not natural at all. As someone who has lost a child through natural means I am sure you do understand this.Thank you very much for your post, gardenswithkids.
I am sorry to hear of your loss and of st lucy’s losses. My wife and I went through the same thing, but we are fortunate to have a baby daughter now. Naturally, I don’t think God had anything to do with either situation.
Thank you also. I am also sorry to read of your wife’s miscarriage.Thank you very much for your post, gardenswithkids.
I am sorry to hear of your loss and of st lucy’s losses. My wife and I went through the same thing, but we are fortunate to have a baby daughter now. Naturally, I don’t think God had anything to do with either situation.
A better question, I believe, is how long would they be in Purgatory (if they repent), or hell, if they don’t?I’m assuming that a ban on abortion would result in the majority of current abortion providers obeying the law and ceasing their operations. But abortions would continue, just as they did for the hundred years between the Comstock Law and the Roe v. Wade decision. In the majority of cases, there would be no one to prosecute besides the woman and her family/friend, so you can’t use the Moloch-worshipping doctors as a scapegoat.
Simple question: A woman wants an abortion and a friend assists her in performing one. How long do they go to prison?
Maybe for you it’s a better question, but it’s not really relevant to earthly government. If you’re simply content to let God’s judgment take its course regarding abortion, it strikes me as odd that you would care what the abortion law was in the USA.A better question, I believe, is how long would they be in Purgatory (if they repent), or hell, if they don’t?
One can be both. I am perfectly content with God’s judgment in the end regarding stealing. I am also content with the laws in the USA that deal with theft, burglary, larceny and robbery.Maybe for you it’s a better question, but it’s not really relevant to earthly government. If you’re simply content to let God’s judgment take its course regarding abortion, it strikes me as odd that you would care what the abortion law was in the USA.
So, if you want to participate in the civil government and legislative process surrounding abortion, you really need to answer the question, “A woman wants an abortion and her friend assists her in performing one. How many years do they go to prison?”One can be both. I am perfectly content with God’s judgment in the end regarding stealing. I am also content with the laws in the USA that deal with theft, burglary, larceny and robbery.
“They” don’t go to prison. She is already in prison. Her own prison. She needs healing. The abortionist is the one who would be answerable to the law. The goal of pro-life activists is not to punish the victim. Your argument holds no water. The woman who gets an abortion would not go to jail, prison or pay a fine…PERIOD. Your question is actually part of the well-planned public relations attack that abortion advocates always try to make on us in the pro-life movement. We are anti-woman, after all. Isn’t that the only logical reason why we would oppose abortion in the first place? That’s what they want the public to believe.So, if you want to participate in the civil government and legislative process surrounding abortion, you really need to answer the question, “A woman wants an abortion and her friend assists her in performing one. How many years do they go to prison?”
A friend is attempting to practice medicine without a license? I wouldn’t consider that to be a friend.If a murderer – professional assassin or not – can prove that they were paid or given material assistance by someone requesting them to murder, then the person making the request is also culpable of the murder.
Are you saying that abortion cases should be an exception to this jurisprudence?
Moreover, my question was meant to convey that the “friend” was the abortionist, and that the “friend” did it as a favor to the woman, not out of some desire to perform abortions. The friend need not be a medical doctor.
Yes. Just like there are exceptions throughout our criminal justice system.If a murderer – professional assassin or not – can prove that they were paid or given material assistance by someone requesting them to murder, then the person making the request is also culpable of the murder.
Are you saying that abortion cases should be an exception to this jurisprudence?
I understood you question and my answer remains. If the “friend” didn’t desire to kill a child, he/she didn’t have to.Moreover, my question was meant to convey that the “friend” was the abortionist, and that the “friend” did it as a favor to the woman, not out of some desire to perform abortions. The friend need not be a medical doctor.
In the hypothetical circumstances we are discussing, abortion is illegal and therefore is not medical practice.A friend is attempting to practice medicine without a license? I wouldn’t consider that to be a friend.
Roe already permits this sort of legislation after the first three months of pregnancy.Also, the question of penalties skips over what the law might be in the absence of Roe and Doe. The law itself would provide for penalties, and that would be up to the judgment of elected state legislatures. The question also skips over a lot of details as to the type of abortion the lenght of gestation (nine months?) and a number of factors which legislators might consider.
Personally I would not shed any tears over an overturned Roe v. Wade.I can only go by the situation prior to Roe v Wade. In all those decades no women were sent to jail. Abortionists were subject to penalties. If there is anything wrong with that, it was the decision of state legislatures and the people who elected them. Why are we so afraid to return this decision to the people and their legislatures?
snip…I didn’t read your response correctly.Like it or not, other people don’t have the divine revelation that a zygote or embryo should have the same rights as an infant or even a late-term fetus.
Under the right conditions, yes. But under the right conditions, science has also for years said that an ovum, or heck, even a spermatozoon, will also grow into a human. In the near future a cell from an adult tissue sample will grow into a human, given the right conditions.Divine revelation isn’t necessary. Science for years has said that a human zygote will grow into a human.
What Roe gives, Doe takes away, mandating exceptions for ‘life’ and ‘health’. And Doe’s expansive definition of health comes down in practice to “whatever two abortionists can agree on.” Abortion law and abortion practice in Kansas provides an excellent example of the meaninglessness of Roe’s possible restrictions on abortion.Roe already permits this sort of legislation after the first three months of pregnancy.
Nor would I. It should be overturned, because it is very bad law. State legislatures can do better. (And did so in the past.)Personally I would not shed any tears over an overturned Roe v. Wade.
We are in agreement here, but practically speaking I doubt an overturn of Roe would stop the namecalling from either side, or reduce the number of abortions all that much.What Roe gives, Doe takes away, mandating exceptions for ‘life’ and ‘health’. And Doe’s expansive definition of health comes down in practice to “whatever two abortionists can agree on.” Abortion law and abortion practice in Kansas provides an excellent example of the meaninglessness of Roe’s possible restrictions on abortion.
Nor would I. It should be overturned, because it is very bad law. State legislatures can do better. (And did so in the past.)
There are two groips of laws secular and spiritual. Since the spiritual is for eternity, I would think those laws pertaining to it would be upper most in a person’s mind. Just think, one has to satisfy not only secular law, but spiritual too. Double whammy.Maybe for you it’s a better question, but it’s not really relevant to earthly government. If you’re simply content to let God’s judgment take its course regarding abortion, it strikes me as odd that you would care what the abortion law was in the USA.
I don’t know. The abortion debate was rather tame before Roe v Wade unleashed it.We are in agreement here, but practically speaking I doubt an overturn of Roe would stop the namecalling from either side, or reduce the number of abortions all that much.
More likely, it’d result in dueling constitutional amendment proposals, jury nullifications in states with tough antiabortion laws, and fiercer rhetoric from pro-life people in states with few prohibitions on abortion.
That’s because there was little enforcement. The original proponents of legal abortion bans were mostly doctors as a public health concern. With the modern pro-life movement it is unlikely that this would be the state of affairs again.I don’t know. The abortion debate was rather tame before Roe v Wade unleashed it.
As for how long two people go to prison for participation in an abortion? I don’t know. It is possible to prosecute for a series of different crimes. Being a special instance of a form of murder I imagine it might need it’s own legal definitions and punishments.You can do that without banning abortion, just like you can counsel gambling addicts and alcoholics without banning those things.
I don’t think the majority of abortions would be conducted by doctors if abortion were outlawed.