Four Year Old Getting "bored" at Mass

[sharmin]

So, yes, I have no problem using fear as one of many tools for obedience with children, if that is what it takes for them to understand.

But are they really understanding? Are they behaving because they understand or because they are afraid?

For the record, the only one who actually got that treatment was the 6-year-old, who was 4 at the time and screamed (and I mean SCREAMED) when her mother had to get up during the Communion song with her younger sister, then tried to run away from me to her Mom like I wasn’t her father. Sitting up front meant everyone in the Church saw it, so I took her outside and reminded her who I was. I’d say that was warranted and not an irrational choice.

Reminding her that you are her father and in charge is a good idea! I’m with you on that.
What I took issue with was the idea that it is okay to hit a child with an object.

The rest of my children now know that I will not hold back for the sake of appearance, and I don’t make idle threats. I can simply remind them when they act up or daydream, and 99% of the time, that is enough to keep them calm.

Again, though,I think that it is counterproductive to get children to behave through fear. I would much rather teach them right from wrong, and enable them to understand why things are wrong. I have found natural consequences work very well, while not harming their self esteem and not hurting them physically.

It is foolish to pretend that corporal punishment does not work.

Of course it “works” (if by ‘works’ you mean stops the undesired behavior). If someone four times your size hit you with a hard object, you would stop said behavior as well. But is it right? Are there better ways to get a child to behave?

Reason will only work with children intelligent enough to comprehend, mature enough to accept, and don’t have a limitation to prevent them from possessing both. In that context, a parent should do whatever they need to do when children will not listen. If punishment is all they understand, then they will face the consequence for their actions. Most children understand the relationship between the two, which is why simply mentioning it is enough to correct behavior.

There are many other ways to train a child without hurting them. Proven, researched techniques.

Are we living God’s will because we love God, or because we fear Hell? Almost all of us would answer “both” if we are honest with ourselves, and for children, it is the same thing.

I live God’s will because I love him. I know that he loves me unconditionally, and I try my best to do good because I know that pleases him. I don’t know ANY Christian (Catholic or otherwise) who does good out of fear of Hell!! Seriously, why would God want us to love him and do good just because we don’t want to go to Hell? He wants our hearts good…not just our actions.

So, no, I wasn’t joking. In the words of Father Corapi, “I do not condone smacking them upside the head, although I don’t necessarily condemn it either.”

I’m sure that was meant to be a joke. LOL All kidding aside, I firmly believe, and research will back me up on this, hitting a child is not the best, kindest, or most efficient way to guide a child toward good behavior.

I am editing to add that I am not saying you are a bad parent obviously. I’m sure you are a very loving parent. BUT I strongly disagree with the advice you gave the OP, and I wanted to let the OP know that I think it is a dangerous idea.

 

[DJgang]

Three boys 9, 5 and 4. They are bored to death at Mass, tell me that their feet hurt when standing, knees hurt while kneeling…tough. Sorry about that, but tough is what I tell them.

 

[TedDC]

While I’m sure that your opinion in this thread is appreciated, I’m not sure if this is a serious post or not. It seems like may be a joke for dramatic effect? If it is, I will feel silly. But if you are serious, I really would like to ask: do you really think it’s better for kids to behave out of fear of you rather than out of a sense that it is the right thing to do? Do you just threaten them or do you really hit your children with a belt so that they will behave in Church?

OP, I beg of you not to take this advice. Children are precious gifts from God and there are so many other ways to help children learn to behave without hitting them with objects.

Yup, the guy is a jerk. Beating his kid in the church parking lot - during Mass! I’m sure Jesus really appreciated that!

 

[admonsta]

I have a four year old boy who has lots of trouble staying quiet during Mass. I take him to two weekday Masses as well as Sunday Mass. I also take his 2 year old and 9 month old sisters, and for the Sunday Mass his 5 year old brother and 7 year old sister go too. It’s very hard. We rarely get through a Mass without someone getting loud, and every time on the way to Mass, my son complains. We go anyway. We talk about it beforehand, and he knows he is supposed to be good. He knows Jesus is there, and I show him the tabernacle when we go in. I try to get him as involved as possible, going up to the statues before the Mass starts and talking about who they represent. He joins in the rosary at the end, but his attention span is not enough to get him to the very end. Once a week we stay for adoration, as long as the kids will let me. Even if they don’t understand it, they are there and I trust that God will bless them for it.

I have also decided that once a week, after I pick up the older kids from school, I will take them to the Church and we will do the stations together. They can be fully involved in that - it’s more of a story for them, and it will be a great source of grace in their lives.

We can only do our best, and we have to rely on God to use our meagre efforts to turn them (and us) into saints.

 

[PilgrimSong]

We have seven children, now ages 26 down to 10. I well remember the days of juggling a baby and several young children. Dh and I always took all the children to Sunday Mass, and often on Wednesday evening also. Some sat still better than others. I had to drag the oldest son out from under the pew many times. If someone was loud, we took him/her to the cry room. However, I did not view the cry room as a play room. I would hold the wiggly child and watch the Mass, explaining to him/her what was happening.

Some ideas for you:

Sit in the front where the little ones can see what’s going on. Have a children’s Mass book for them to look at…some are made just for very young children. Take laminated holy cards or a rosary. I am not a fan of bringing lots of toys or snacks, though of course the nursing baby always seemed to get hungry during Mass.

When a child whined about going to Mass, I tried to stay positive, telling them that Jesus was SO happy that they were coming to church.

Your children will not learn to behave in Mass if you don’t take them there. It will be a struggle at times, but should get easier as time goes by. Use the cry room or vestibule if you absolutely must, but try to keep them in the church as much as possible. And you do NOT need to resort to physical violence, hitting with a belt, as one poster wrote. We have never done that, and all our children learned how to behave in church. It was so very important to us that we worship as a family, and worth any effort to make that happen.

God bless!

 

[Mack5141]

A few thoughts…as you are hauling a screaming kid towards the back of the church (preferrably from a front row : ) look at the faces of the parents around you…they are likely smiling ear to ear, likely glad it is not them this time. When I see their expressions, it is a reminder not to take myself too seriously and trust in God’s love for me and the child.

Also, when bringing a kid’s bible into Mass, check to see if it has one of the day’s readings in it…read it to your child beforehand then bookmark it for the Mass…same with the last supper reading at the consecration.

Finally, child number two will be watching child number one for cues on how to behave. Start going regularly as a family and it might get easier than you think.

God bless and we’ll keep you in our prayers!

 

[ahollars]

Reminding her that you are her father and in charge is a good idea! I’m with you on that. What I took issue with was the idea that it is okay to hit a child with an object.

Most parents use their hand. This is actually not a good idea. My children know that if I have nothing in my hand that I am not going to do anything to them. Their fear is calmed and it prevents a situation from even beginning.

Again, though,I think that it is counterproductive to get children to behave through fear. I would much rather teach them right from wrong, and enable them to understand why things are wrong. I have found natural consequences work very well, while not harming their self esteem and not hurting them physically.

Any parent can tell you that if children do not fear the parents, their authority is challenged long before they have a right to… AKA: teenagers who think they are grown. Prevent it when they are young, and you won’t have to fix it later.

There are many other ways to train a child without hurting them. Proven, researched techniques.

And I use them all the time, but when they fail, I put on the Drill Sergeant hat.
sharmin;6604316:

I live God’s will because I love him. I know that he loves me unconditionally, and I try my best to do good because I know that pleases him. I don’t know ANY Christian (Catholic or otherwise) who does good out of fear of Hell!! Seriously, why would God want us to love him and do good just because we don’t want to go to Hell? He wants our hearts good…not just our actions.

Act of Contrition

O my God, I am heartily sorry for having offended Thee, and I detest all my sins, because I dread the loss of heaven, and the pains of hell; but most of all because they offend Thee, my God, Who are all good and deserving of all my love. I firmly resolve, with the help of Thy grace, to confess my sins, to do penance, and to amend my life. Amen.

If you think that doesn’t apply to you, then for your sake it had better be true.

I’m sure that was meant to be a joke. LOL All kidding aside, I firmly believe, and research will back me up on this, hitting a child is not the best, kindest, or most efficient way to guide a child toward good behavior.

He wasn’t joking. See his talk titled “Catholic Family: Garden of Holiness”.

I am editing to add that I am not saying you are a bad parent obviously. I’m sure you are a very loving parent. BUT I strongly disagree with the advice you gave the OP, and I wanted to let the OP know that I think it is a dangerous idea.

Thank you. I’m sure you are, too.

Yup, the guy is a jerk. Beating his kid in the church parking lot - during Mass! I’m sure Jesus really appreciated that!

I’ll let this speak for itself.

 

[PPeterson]

Beating a child with objects or hitting them in the head is child abuse. Citing scripture will not make it legal.

 

[PPeterson]

Sitting up front meant everyone in the Church saw it, so I took her outside and reminded her who I was. /QUOTE]

have to say i was a little shocked when I read your postings. I looked back at your old posts and you seem to be an intelligent, thoughtful person. I just wanted to highlight this part of your post “everyone in church saw it” because it had me questioning whether you made a show of beating a four year old kid because you were embarrassed in public.

I’m not going to try and argue about it or anything because I know it’ll go nowhere. just wow. I did not expect to read this story on here tonight. I’m definitely going back to staying away from this forum.

 

[Shadark]

I must agree, It’s certainly posts like these that put me off this forum in the first place.

Beating your child is only going to alienate you from them when they grow up. Children remember everything. Abuse is abuse.

 

[PilgrimSong]

Any parent can tell you that if children do not fear the parents, their authority is challenged long before they have a right to… AKA: teenagers who think they are grown. Prevent it when they are young, and you won’t have to fix it later.
.

I strongly disagree! You do not have to instill fear in your children by hitting or spanking them, in order to prevent them from being rebellious or belligerent.

We have seven children ages 26, 24, 21, 18, 16, 14, and 10…so we’ve had a few years of experience with teenagers. Our children respect us but do not fear us. We exercise loving authority but it does not include corporal punishment. Our oldest daughter joined a religious order after graduating from college. Our oldest son is in the military. Another daughter has two jobs, and the middle one is a freshman in college. The three still in high school or grade school are not perfect but they are not rebellious. All of them are faith-filled young people. We are not a rare exception; I can think of many families we know who are like us.

Sorry, but your statement is just plain wrong.

Here’s a Bible verse for you: “Perfect love casts out fear.”

 

[sharmin]

wonderful post.