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AnnieBarnhardt
Guest
I am just a simple Christian woman who wants to tell the truth
I am not any donomination but i dont mind making new friends
I am not any donomination but i dont mind making new friends
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CopticChristian
Guest
Ok, truth or dare. Do you go to Church on Saturday or Sunday?
Concerning making new friends I must admit this is a novel approach at best.
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theidler
Guest
I reported the posts to the moderators.
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CopticChristian
Guest
I am trying to understand the Evangelical Free Churches and I have some ideas…
I found 3 Evangelical Free Churches on your ReadingBerk site. What is the Eschatologic view of the Evangelical Free Church. There are only 4.
Historic Premillineal
Amellinial
Postmillineal
Premillineal Dispensationilsm
Do you believe in the Rapture?
What countries does your Free Evangelical Free Chuch go to as missionaries?
Thank you
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AbideWithMe
Guest
CopticChristian—
If by the Rapture, you’re asking if I believe in some sort of Left Behind
-like scenario…no, I definitely don’t. The E. Free Church’s statement of faith does include a pre-millenial belief, but I’ve never heard a sermon on it. The E. Free Church supports quite a bit of lee-way on non-core doctrinal issues, especially ones that involve high levels of speculation such as eschatology.
I live in an agricultural area, so churches are few and far between. People at my country church try to get along and help each other, even if we amicably agree to disagree on some points.
As for E. Free missions, I don’t know. I do know my church is still trying to help people in Haiti rebuild their lives, and people from my church went down to help after Hurricane Katrina. The youth group goes to the poorer parts of Appalachia with work teams, and some parts of inner-city Reading are really struggling badly, so some people help out down in the city. As for me, I grow extra produce for people. I have the charism of the green thumb.
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Radical
Guest
sounds downright Christian…and you’d fit right in with the Mennonites tooIf by the Rapture, you’re asking if I believe in some sort of Left Behind
-like scenario…no, I definitely don’t. The E. Free Church’s statement of faith does include a pre-millenial belief, but I’ve never heard a sermon on it. The E. Free Church supports quite a bit of lee-way on non-core doctrinal issues, especially ones that involve high levels of speculation such as eschatology.
I live in an agricultural area, so churches are few and far between. People at my country church try to get along and help each other, even if we amicably agree to disagree on some points.
As for E. Free missions, I don’t know. I do know my church is still trying to help people in Haiti rebuild their lives, and people from my church went down to help after Hurricane Katrina. The youth group goes to the poorer parts of Appalachia with work teams, and some parts of inner-city Reading are really struggling badly, so some people help out down in the city. As for me, I grow extra produce for people. I have the charism of the green thumb.
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CopticChristian
Guest
The reason I asked is because of this…CopticChristian—
If by the Rapture, you’re asking if I believe in some sort of Left Behind
-like scenario…no, I definitely don’t. The E. Free Church’s statement of faith does include a pre-millenial belief, but I’ve never heard a sermon on it. The E. Free Church supports quite a bit of lee-way on non-core doctrinal issues, especially ones that involve high levels of speculation such as eschatology.
I live in an agricultural area, so churches are few and far between. People at my country church try to get along and help each other, even if we amicably agree to disagree on some points.
As for E. Free missions, I don’t know. I do know my church is still trying to help people in Haiti rebuild their lives, and people from my church went down to help after Hurricane Katrina. The youth group goes to the poorer parts of Appalachia with work teams, and some parts of inner-city Reading are really struggling badly, so some people help out down in the city. As for me, I grow extra produce for people. I have the charism of the green thumb.
home.comcast.net/~pastorbob/sun%20evening%20bible%20study/denominations/evangelicalfree.html
I called the 3 ecclesial communities listed on the Berk list and one of them said that they were dispensationalist, premillinial pretrib. I did not connect with the other two yet. I reviewed one of the websites and found that they go to Peru. I spoke to one of the communities and they told me that they go to other places…cannot recall…Haiti is Roman Catholic 80%, Protestant 16% (Baptist 10%, Pentecostal 4%, Adventist 1%, other 1%), none 1%, other 3%.
Read this
newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/catholicamerica/2010/01/our_catholic_pact_with_haiti.html
and this
thedailybeast.com/articles/2010/02/06/evangelicals-adoption-battlecry.html
and this
alternet.org/teaparty/150721/evangelicals_launch_crusade_to_adopt_children_from_around_the_world/?page=entire
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CopticChristian
Guest
You know idea how much I missed your rebel spirit.sounds downright Christian…and you’d fit right in with the Mennonites too
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AbideWithMe
Guest
CopticChristian
Here’s an idea for you: last month (iirc) Reading, PA earned the doubtful honor of being named the U.S’s poorest city (among larger cities). It’s also high ranking for the inner-city crime rate. The city is near both NYC and Philadelphia, and the poverty ranking is partly attributed to an influx of Hispanics with lower education moving to Reading to find cheaper rent than what’s available in NYC.
Through my church and other friends churches, we are trying to help out in the city. I live on a horse farm, and when I had a good safe lesson horse, I used to let some kids from a city shelter take free lessons. Now, I just grow produce to share. Those are areas where I have a gift.
You said you make $500-1000 per hour. If you work a standard day, you must have alot of money beyond what you need that is a gift you can share.
So, instead of calling busy Protestant pastors to chat, how about calling an inner-city Catholic priest in Reading to inquire how you can help him reach out to the Hispanic community?
By what I assume–perhaps wrongly—to be your criteria, the heretical Good Samaritan should have left the Jewish man bleeding by the side of the road till some person of his own particular religion finally did stop to help.
Here’s an idea for you: last month (iirc) Reading, PA earned the doubtful honor of being named the U.S’s poorest city (among larger cities). It’s also high ranking for the inner-city crime rate. The city is near both NYC and Philadelphia, and the poverty ranking is partly attributed to an influx of Hispanics with lower education moving to Reading to find cheaper rent than what’s available in NYC.
Through my church and other friends churches, we are trying to help out in the city. I live on a horse farm, and when I had a good safe lesson horse, I used to let some kids from a city shelter take free lessons. Now, I just grow produce to share. Those are areas where I have a gift.
You said you make $500-1000 per hour. If you work a standard day, you must have alot of money beyond what you need that is a gift you can share.
So, instead of calling busy Protestant pastors to chat, how about calling an inner-city Catholic priest in Reading to inquire how you can help him reach out to the Hispanic community?
By what I assume–perhaps wrongly—to be your criteria, the heretical Good Samaritan should have left the Jewish man bleeding by the side of the road till some person of his own particular religion finally did stop to help.
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AbideWithMe
Guest
CopticChristian, part two—
I go to the E. Free church I go to because it’s my neighborhood church. If I were Catholic, I’d go to my nearest Catholic church, even if I wasn’t totally on board with everything there. I’m not into church hopping unless the local church is patently terrible. My neighbors put up lovingly with me in my local church, and I likewise accept them. We don’t have to agree on everything to get along. In my church some people, like me, bring a bit of an “emerging church” element to the mix, while others balance that out with a more conservative perspective. It takes all types.
I go to the E. Free church I go to because it’s my neighborhood church. If I were Catholic, I’d go to my nearest Catholic church, even if I wasn’t totally on board with everything there. I’m not into church hopping unless the local church is patently terrible. My neighbors put up lovingly with me in my local church, and I likewise accept them. We don’t have to agree on everything to get along. In my church some people, like me, bring a bit of an “emerging church” element to the mix, while others balance that out with a more conservative perspective. It takes all types.
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CopticChristian
Guest
The idea is that you are involved in Charity. I previously noted that having been baptized Faith, Hope and Charity abide in you. What you are seeing is the grace of God via Charity working through you becacuse on your own you can do nothing.
I understand your discomfort in my investigation of the truth. Recall my forensic training. I have seen this often.
I understand that you have a church.
You did not read correctly. The value of my time is the value of my time that was all I offered.
I understand your sentiment as my questions and inquiry are part and parcel of my forensic mind as you also read. I get all the facts and information before formulating an opinion.
Your assessment of the Good Samaritan is typical of Protestant thinking in spotlighting parts of the Bible and not taking the whole of the message. In that vain consider this…
I know a church and here is the information.
since 1984, the xxx Church has donated nearly $750 million in cash and goods to people in need in more than 150 countries. That averages to 37.5 million per year or about $3-$4 per xxxxmember went to the poor.
Xxxx xxxx said: ‘Charity, or love, is the greatest principle in existence. If we can lend a helping hand to the oppressed, if we can aid those who are despondent and in sorrow, if we can uplift and ameliorate the condition of mankind, it is our mission to do it, it is an essential part of our religion to do it’ (in Conference Report, Apr. 1917, 4). When we feel love for God’s children, we are given opportunities to help them in their journey back to His presence"
"Nothing you do makes much of a difference if you do not have charity. You can speak with tongues, have the gift of prophecy, understand all mysteries, and possess all knowledge; even if you have the faith to move mountains, without charity it won’t profit you at all…
"Without charity—or the pure love of Christ—whatever else we accomplish matters little. With it, all else becomes vibrant and alive.
“When we inspire and teach others to fill their hearts with love, obedience flows from the inside out in voluntary acts of self-sacrifice and service”
Because of the tremendous growth of the Church in Peru, xxx leaders announced that a xxx would be built in the beautiful city of Lima. The Lima Peru Temple was constructed in an undeveloped area on 5 acres with six spires that reach toward the heavens.
Now after you have a burning in your bosom over the wonderful work being done look at the color code and insert the words below…
The Mormon church has donoted…per Mormon member…
Joseph Smith said…
from the ensign, a mormon publication…
Mormon leaders…will build a temple.
LDS, **Mormon
**Joseph F. Smith, (Ensign, Nov 2006, 97–99).
(Ensign, Nov 2007, 28–31).
**Mormon, Temple **
In the letter to the Romans Paul says that God is impartial and God of all…and yes Charity is highest and we should all be charitable…your notion that the Samaritan as heretic is understandable as you see things.
When I was at San Francisco General Hospital as a student I had to perform a Neurologic exam on this black man. He had myasthenia gravis. In medicine we always ask for a chief complaint. He was from San Quentin and his chief complaint was that he could not do 1000 push ups and that is why he was there. He was handcuffed to the bed. I asked permission and performed my exam, had a great conversation and that was that. By the way he was one of the Zebra killers. I was trained to be charitable.
I have been to many medical missions and in the Phillipines there are and I saw many Mormon missionaries actively involved in the lives of the poorest of the poor. They help them with the intent to convert them. Are you OK with that?
Concerning the Samaritan I ask you to reconcile your beliefs with the other words of Jesus…
All I am interested in is the truth.
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CopticChristian
Guest
I was left an invitation to go a Christmas pageant at a local church. It was LDS. I called and asked if they taught and believed that Mary had relations with God the Father to produce Jesus. The answer was yes. I said then there is no reason to attend your pageant.
There are 3 evangelical free churches in Berk, Christ Evangelical Free Church, Crossroads Community Church and Crossway. They are all premillinial/pretribulation Dispensationalists. If you are unfamiliar with dispensationalists look at this posting in Catholic Answers…
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=619372
I have read your other postings and you as I understand have viewed CA for about a year, and suggest you believe in the real presence and potentialy would consider becoming Lutheran… I believe I may be able to shed some light on that thought. When you look at the history of the Evangelical Free Churches you will see that it stems from Lutheran thought and it is no surprise you lean Lutheran. While at Crossroads website I took the time to listen to Doug Boyer from Promise Keepers.
xroadscc.org/media/watch-online/an-unexpected-christmas/
He talks about his own personal family history and then goes right to Matthew. What happened in between from Matthew to now. I am interested in the family tree from Matthew all the way to now as it concerns the Church. It is a good talk, I suggest everyone listen to it.
The History of Chrisitianity Scandanavia includes the fact that Christianity came to Denmark and Sweden in the 9-10th Century
Today Sweden is mostly Lutheran/Church of Sweden. Denmark also has a Lutheran/Church of Denmark
The Evangelical Churches in Sweden date to the 19th century
You may not be familiar with the 4 points of division that were produced by Knox, Zwingli, Calvin and Luther, they are discussed at this website by a former Protestant.
catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0097.html
Sola Gratia
Sola Scriptura
Extrinsic justification
Sola Scriptura vs Church/Tradition
As I told you I found this website summarizing the Evangelical Free Churches beliefs.
home.comcast.net/~pastorbob/sun%20evening%20bible%20study/denominations/evangelicalfree.html
They were correct in that the Evangelical Free Churches are Dispensationalists.
The following is a Baptist Perspective on the Evangelical Free Churches
rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Psychology/efca.htm
So in summary the Evangelical Free Churches evolved out of Lutheran thought and incorporated Dispensational Eschatology. This provides a low ecclesiology so that the Church is not the Israel of God but rather a piece of dirt.
If you asked me to come to an Evangelical Free Church I would say I could not because the beliefs and actions of this church are anti-Catholic as is the notion of Dispensationalism and accounts for the actions of this group in spite of the charitable work.
As far as heresy is concerned. I would rather say unorthodox. As far as heretics are concerned I would rather say rebels. There have always been rebels in the OT Church and will be part of the NT Church…rebels produce unorthodox thinking. Adam and Eve were rebels…so what else is new. Concerning MM and Foxe…nothing more than unorthodox thinking of rebels producing writing that appears in history.
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AbideWithMe
Guest
Hi CopticChristian—I’m still reading some of the links. The one by Mark Brumley summarizing Louis Bouyer’s earlier book was interesting. Incidently, I’ve found little if any teaching of extrinsic justification among the Protestant writers I mostly read…it’s always both imputed and imparted righteousness acting synergistically.
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CopticChristian
Guest
Abiding,
I appreciate your interest. The notion of Justification from a Catholic perspective is Intrinsic, made righteous, looking righteous and being righteous through no merits of our own…“See what love the Father has that he declares us to be Children of God…and so we are”…just like let there be light and there was light…The word of God does not go out and come back void. I started a thread on this and you can see the discussion as it regards the issue.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=589688
M
Manessa
Guest
** And Remember The COUNCIL OF TOULOUSE - 1229 A.D.
AS a FINAL and second post to this FACT/.///// Without also being and Terminated from this Site ( for telling the truth .*
Canon 1. We appoint, therefore, that the archbishops and bishops shall swear in one priest, and two or three laymen of good report, or more if they think fit, in every parish, both in and out of cities, who shall diligently, faithfully,
and frequently seek out the heretics in those parishes, by searching all houses and subterranean chambers which lie under suspicion. And looking out for appendages or outbuildings, in the roofs themselves, or any other kind of hiding places, all which we direct to be destroyed.
Canon 6. Directs that the house in which any heretic shall be found shall be destroyed.
Canon 14. We prohibit also that the laity should NOT be permitted to have the books of the Old or New Testament.
Source: Heresy and Authority in Medieval Europe, Edited with an introduction by Edward Peters, Scolar Press, London, copyright 1980 by Edward Peters, ISBN 0-85967-621-8, pp. 194-195, citing S. R. Maitland, Facts and Documents [illustrative of the history, doctrine and rites, of the ancient Albigenses & Waldenses], London, Rivington, 1832, pp. 192-194.
Additional Sources:
Ecclesiastical History of Ancient Churches
of the Albigenses, Pierre Allix,
published in Oxford at the Clarendon Press in 1821, reprinted in USA in 1989
by Church History Research & Archives, P.O. Box 38, Dayton Ohio, 45449, p. 213 [Canon 14].
Remember that ROME did not have a bible Translation untill 400 AD.
With the last 1600 yrs ~ of Roman*tic Catholicism we can see today that OVER the Years when NON CATHOLIC people Tried to dispute and Spread the True Biblical Apostolic Faith of The Church.
The Catholic Masses, seeing that the bible Translations did not Show a Catholic Church in scripture.
The Catholic Church as a Whole, began to try to Make *( INTO LAW ) ~~ Catholic Faith as Mandatory Law.
BUT Wait…!..Go back …REMEMBER ~/~( Itallian Romantic Catholics, ( COMMON PEOPLE )
Did not have ANY access WhATSOEVER, to Any of the Bible, untill Long AFTER the 4 th, - Century.
and slowly around the late 7 th Century when Rome finally / - SLOWLY began to correct the 600 + ERRORS of Jeromes 4 th Century Latin Vulgate /.
ROME released it SLOWLY and ONLY to the Priests and BISHOPS.
ROME had no interest or desire to Make a German Translation or Arabic or Syrian or Hebrew or Aramiac or Samaritan or any OTHER Translation WHATSOEVER. * ( At all )
WE can get into FURTHER Facts, Details and much DEEPER discussion, as we begin to get answers and divers subjects and as Intentional diversions begin to come.
But rememeber FINALLY as the MAIN CONCLUSION of these FACTS… How the Catholic Church REFUSED to PUT the bible into other languages…
And even BANNED all NON Catholic bibles. (* Claiming they were in Error )…A Danger & harmfull to their Church.
Today we have the Pope auctually KISSING the Quran / BOWING down to the quran and declaring that **Allah)( god of islam _) is the Lord Jesus Christ.
it is pretty CLEAR that the Catholic Church trully dislikes *( WITH A PASSION )… Gods word and His Church / Peoples~~ trusting & Learning his word…
AUCTUAL PHOTO ~POPE KISSINg~ HIS…~ QURAN images.google.com/search?q=photos%20of&biw=1243&bih=595&sei=gnX8TpvXCbO_2QWs1YiFAg&tbm=isch#hl=en&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=pope+kissing+quran&oq=pope+kissing+quran&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=1168l1834l0l2086l5l5l0l0l0l0l0l0ll0l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=1&biw=1243&bih=595
Having spent every MEANS possible including Murdering & Persecuting translators . BURNING & BANNING bibles. And MAKING threats to People for possesing these bibles…
Claiming Error… While today they Kiss the Quran… & it really makes thing clear.
Thank you and Pls pray for Catholics & muslims… that they will Turn from serving Allah & Turn to Jesus.
AS a FINAL and second post to this FACT/.///// Without also being and Terminated from this Site ( for telling the truth .*
Canon 1. We appoint, therefore, that the archbishops and bishops shall swear in one priest, and two or three laymen of good report, or more if they think fit, in every parish, both in and out of cities, who shall diligently, faithfully,
and frequently seek out the heretics in those parishes, by searching all houses and subterranean chambers which lie under suspicion. And looking out for appendages or outbuildings, in the roofs themselves, or any other kind of hiding places, all which we direct to be destroyed.
Canon 6. Directs that the house in which any heretic shall be found shall be destroyed.
Canon 14. We prohibit also that the laity should NOT be permitted to have the books of the Old or New Testament.
Source: Heresy and Authority in Medieval Europe, Edited with an introduction by Edward Peters, Scolar Press, London, copyright 1980 by Edward Peters, ISBN 0-85967-621-8, pp. 194-195, citing S. R. Maitland, Facts and Documents [illustrative of the history, doctrine and rites, of the ancient Albigenses & Waldenses], London, Rivington, 1832, pp. 192-194.
Additional Sources:
Ecclesiastical History of Ancient Churches
of the Albigenses, Pierre Allix,
published in Oxford at the Clarendon Press in 1821, reprinted in USA in 1989
by Church History Research & Archives, P.O. Box 38, Dayton Ohio, 45449, p. 213 [Canon 14].
Remember that ROME did not have a bible Translation untill 400 AD.
With the last 1600 yrs ~ of Roman*tic Catholicism we can see today that OVER the Years when NON CATHOLIC people Tried to dispute and Spread the True Biblical Apostolic Faith of The Church.
Code:
THE BIBLE / Scriptures.The Catholic Church as a Whole, began to try to Make *( INTO LAW ) ~~ Catholic Faith as Mandatory Law.
BUT Wait…!..Go back …REMEMBER ~/~( Itallian Romantic Catholics, ( COMMON PEOPLE )
Did not have ANY access WhATSOEVER, to Any of the Bible, untill Long AFTER the 4 th, - Century.
and slowly around the late 7 th Century when Rome finally / - SLOWLY began to correct the 600 + ERRORS of Jeromes 4 th Century Latin Vulgate /.
ROME released it SLOWLY and ONLY to the Priests and BISHOPS.
ROME had no interest or desire to Make a German Translation or Arabic or Syrian or Hebrew or Aramiac or Samaritan or any OTHER Translation WHATSOEVER. * ( At all )
WE can get into FURTHER Facts, Details and much DEEPER discussion, as we begin to get answers and divers subjects and as Intentional diversions begin to come.
But rememeber FINALLY as the MAIN CONCLUSION of these FACTS… How the Catholic Church REFUSED to PUT the bible into other languages…
And even BANNED all NON Catholic bibles. (* Claiming they were in Error )…A Danger & harmfull to their Church.
Today we have the Pope auctually KISSING the Quran / BOWING down to the quran and declaring that **Allah)( god of islam _) is the Lord Jesus Christ.
it is pretty CLEAR that the Catholic Church trully dislikes *( WITH A PASSION )… Gods word and His Church / Peoples~~ trusting & Learning his word…
AUCTUAL PHOTO ~POPE KISSINg~ HIS…~ QURAN images.google.com/search?q=photos%20of&biw=1243&bih=595&sei=gnX8TpvXCbO_2QWs1YiFAg&tbm=isch#hl=en&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=pope+kissing+quran&oq=pope+kissing+quran&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=1168l1834l0l2086l5l5l0l0l0l0l0l0ll0l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=1&biw=1243&bih=595
Having spent every MEANS possible including Murdering & Persecuting translators . BURNING & BANNING bibles. And MAKING threats to People for possesing these bibles…
Claiming Error… While today they Kiss the Quran… & it really makes thing clear.
Thank you and Pls pray for Catholics & muslims… that they will Turn from serving Allah & Turn to Jesus.
J
JustaServant
Guest
- Status