FoxNews documentary on Religion of Peace

[Montalban]

Walid Shoebat is likely a complete fraud, and certainly a partial one.

I am not here to dispute this, as I have no idea about who he is.
There’s an interview of him
shoebat.com/media/fox_news_2005_07.wmv
However, I’m intrigued by the following statement…

If a person were in Palestine and wanted to be an Islamic terrorist, why on earth would he join the communist/secularist PLO, an organization that recognizes Jews as Palestinians in its founding covenant, and that had a generally anti-religious agenda?

The PLO was a terrorist organisation that was actively involved in acts of terror against Israel. Simply the fact that they had some statement there means zilch. The Soviet Union’s constitution guaranteed freedom of speech, and of the press. I don’t suddenly believe, upon knowing that, that the Soviet Union was a bastion of free-thinking and the free dissemination of ideas.

Why not the then active Hamas or Islamic Jihad?

Well there are so many Muslim terrorist organisations to join now, aren’t there? Maybe he like the dental-plan.

Shoebat is the Muslim version of Jack Chick’s “Father SoandSo’s” who supposedly left the secret Vatican offices of the “black pope.”

What’s this mean?

 

[Montalban]

One thing I found interesting was how the radical Muslims and western liberals had similar views about the USA. Some of the things I heard from the rantings of the mullahs was exactly what I heard from my atheist burned out hippy profs back on college. Go figure.

Both are opposed to the West.

I’ve a friend who’s Communist (a Trotskyist), gay and atheist. He supports Islam, who’d have him killed if it had the chance for being what he is.

In Iran liberals joined with the Mullah’s in efforts to topple the Shah.

 

[Rational741]

FoxNews documentary on Religion of Peace?

For seeking Islam and what Moslems believe you need a news channel like FoxNews?

Is FoxNews an expert news channel in Islamic theology which represents the true beliefs of Moslems?

 

[exoflare]

FoxNews documentary on Religion of Peace?

For seeking Islam and what Moslems believe you need a news channel like FoxNews?

Is FoxNews an expert news channel in Islamic theology which represents the true beliefs of Moslems?

Hey, justice/freedom/etc… glad to see you back.

I knew it was only a matter of time until your next return

 

[Montalban]

FoxNews documentary on Religion of Peace?

For seeking Islam and what Moslems believe you need a news channel like FoxNews?

You’re making an appeal to incredulity? (that’s irony in case you missed it)

Is FoxNews an expert news channel in Islamic theology which represents the true beliefs of Moslems?

What tv station is?

 

[mjdonnelly]

FoxNews documentary on Religion of Peace?

For seeking Islam and what Moslems believe you need a news channel like FoxNews?

Is FoxNews an expert news channel in Islamic theology which represents the true beliefs of Moslems?

It appears that Muslims don’t know their own beliefs since it all depends in what part of the world you are living.

 

[Brian_C]

One thing I found interesting was how the radical Muslims and western liberals had similiar views about the USA. Some of the things I heard from the rantings of the mullahs was exactly what I heard from my atheist burned out hippy profs back on college. Go figure.

It’s a well-known fact that the anti-western venom that was spewed by the Iranian students in the hostage crisis was in many cases picked up by them when they attended US universities.

 

[Valke2]

It’s a well-known fact that the anti-western venom that was spewed by the Iranian students in the hostage crisis was in many cases picked up by them when they attended US universities.

Really. That’s one well known fact that I never heard. I also don’t recall a lot of people at Rutgers chanting things about the great satan. Are we really going to try to equate liberals and/or atheists with radical islamists? Someone needs to send Karl Rove their resume.

 

[Brian_C]

I love how sensitve liberals are to those who don’t agree with them. Yes, it is a well known fact. Someone needs to read up a tad on the hostage crisis. Feel free to watch the documentary that runs on the Discovery/New York Times Channel if you have trouble assimilating facts from written media. You know, the New York Times has always been Karl Rove’s mouthpiece.

 

[pro_universal]

Hey look!

No confirmation that Walid Shoebat is even from Palestine, much less a “former PLO terrorist.”

No evidence at all? Come on guys…there’s got to be something to verify this person’s claims, right?

 

[cestusdei]

pro is back to his usual “prove it” trick and then once proven he suddenly ignores the thread. We’ve been through this before. Pro is allergic to dealing with the issues.

 

[Valke2]

I love how sensitve liberals are to those who don’t agree with them. Yes, it is a well known fact. Someone needs to read up a tad on the hostage crisis. Feel free to watch the documentary that runs on the Discovery/New York Times Channel if you have trouble assimilating facts from written media. You know, the New York Times has always been Karl Rove’s mouthpiece.

Thanks for that wise advice. I’ll try to develop a thicker skin and I look forward to learning more about history from your unique point of view. And I think it was very brave of you to admit your love for sensitive liberals.

 

[Brian_C]

This will be fun. Why don’t you take a look at which hostages they released first and look for the backstory as to why. Otherwise, please don’t waste my time with your “Karl Rove” and “unique point of view” comments.

Did you live through the crisis? I did. I was a young child but won’t forget it plastered on the news every night. I remember what they said about the US and it was parroted part and parcel from US anti-Vietnam protests.

Cheers!

 

[estesbob]

We watched the documentary. It is something that everyone in government should watch. Thank God for the courage of those who have participated in putting together this documentary. May their efforts help to bring about true peace.

I watched it too-I was impressed with how they documented everything-even to the extent of showing a suicide bomber induction ceremonies. But you know Por-universal says its all wrong so whats a guy to think? Ya think maybe the english subtitles were wrong. Perhaps instead of yelling “Death to America” as Fox was showing they were actually cheering “Go Chiefs”?

 

[Franciscan]

I Saw parts of ‘Obsession’ tonight.It was scary. i thought i knew how bad things were until i saw this…

 

[pro_universal]

Wait a minute…here’s a guy claiming to have personally witnessed the things the documentary talks about. If I ask for some evidence that he was actually a witness, what’s wrong with that?

Why are you all taking him at his word?

Notice that everyone responded to my challenge for evidence with “…” in terms of evidence.

People believe without proof in Shoebat’s claims. This is because they want to believe it, not because they’re credible

 

[David_Paul]

Is FoxNews an expert news channel in Islamic theology which represents the true beliefs of Moslems?

Probably Fox has some decent experts. Catholic church has more of course. Walter Brandmüller, president of the Pontifical Committee for Historical Sciences, is one. Recently he gave a speech at the Pontifical Lateran University in which he said:

. . . Those who maintain that understanding jihad as a holy war constitutes a sort of deviation from the true Islamic tradition are therefore not telling the truth, and history sadly demonstrates that that violence has characterized Islam since its origin, and that Mohammed himself systematically organized and led the raids . . .

In Islamic tradition, in fact, the concept of the equality of all human beings does not exist, nor does, in consequence, the concept of the dignity of every human life. Sharia is founded upon a threefold inequality: between man and woman, between Muslim and non-Muslim, and between freeman and slave. In essence, the male human being is considered a full titleholder of rights and duties only through his belonging to the Islamic community: those who convert to another religion or become atheists are considered traitors, subject to the death penalty, or at least to the loss of all their rights.

The most irrevocable of these inequalities is that between man and woman, because the others can be overcome – the slave can be freed, the non-Muslim can convert to Islam – while woman’s inferiority is irremediable, in that it was established by God himself . . .

chiesa.espressonline.it/dettaglio.jsp?id=43865&eng=y

November issue of Crisis Magazine (not on the net yet) has an excellent article by Robert R. Reilly which explains the history of the irrational forces within Islam starting with the death penalty imposed upon Mu’tazilites by Caliph Ja’afar al-Mutawakki (847-861). While that edict did not end the use of reason in Islam–Avicenna and Averroes were yet to come–it, Reilly writes, began Islam’s " long process of dehellenization and its resulting ossification".

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

Walid Shoebat has been around for years - nobody, not even the PLO, has proven that he’s not who he says he is. But pro seems to know so we have to defer to Pro’s expertise in this matter.

Shoebat has said his grandfather was the Mukhtar of Beit Sahour and was born in Bethlehem so it is easy for a critic to check. Hey, pro’s says he’s a fraud, so who are we to argue?

After all, Walid Shoebat should have been a member of Hamas 12 years before it was formed or Islamic Jihad 4 years before it was formed. That is proof Walid Shoebat is a Jack Chick type.

 

[pro_universal]

Walid Shoebat has been around for years - nobody, not even the PLO, has proven that he’s not who he says he is. But pro seems to know so we have to defer to Pro’s expertise in this matter.

Ah, classic: so you’re saying the absence of evidence to the contrary is proof that Shoebat makes sense?

There are plenty of Arabs who say that they have no idea who Shoebat is. No one from Palestine has ever said “I know that guy!” despite his face being plastered on TV. And he refuses to give any details that might identify where he’s from, claiming a need for “secrecy” while at the same time he’s on television every month.

Yeah, that’s credible

Shoebat has said his grandfather was the Mukhtar of Beit Sahour and was born in Bethlehem so it is easy for a critic to check. Hey, pro’s says he’s a fraud, so who are we to argue?

Great, if you checked it, let’s see the evidence. If not, all we have is a wild claim with no substantiation.

After all, Walid Shoebat should have been a member of Hamas 12 years before it was formed or Islamic Jihad 4 years before it was formed. That is proof Walid Shoebat is a Jack Chick type.

Well, let’s see, considering that the PLO was operating only OUTSIDE of Israel/Palestine before the Lebanon war (1978, 80, and 82), the odds that he joined a “terror group” in the West Bank before Hamas was around are almost zero.

The PLO was an exile organization until Israel allowed Arafat back into the territories; until the first intifada, virtually all of its operations were planned and carried out OUTSIDE of Israel/Palestine.

So yeah, that is good evidence that Shoebat is a fraud.

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

Ah, classic: so you’re saying the absence of evidence to the contrary is proof that Shoebat makes sense?

There are plenty of Arabs who say that they have no idea who Shoebat is. No one from Palestine has ever said “I know that guy!” despite his face being plastered on TV. And he refuses to give any details that might identify where he’s from, claiming a need for “secrecy” while at the same time he’s on television every month.

Yeah, that’s credible

Did I say anything of the sort? I am 'deferring to your self-avowed expertise on PLO terrorists.

Who said plenty of Arabs have to know who Shoebat is? The PLO hasn’t come out and said this man isn’t one of ours. They remain totally silent because they know he was one of theirs.

pro:

Great, if you checked it, let’s see the evidence. If not, all we have is a wild claim with no substantiation.

Well, that is public knowledge known for years but hey, if you say he’s a fraud who are we to disagree. It takes a fraud to know another. And we can all see who’s the ‘expert’ here.

pro:

Well, let’s see, considering that the PLO was operating only OUTSIDE of Israel/Palestine before the Lebanon war (1978, 80, and 82), the odds that he joined a “terror group” in the West Bank before Hamas was around are almost zero.

The PLO was an exile organization until Israel allowed Arafat back into the territories; until the first intifada, virtually all of its operations were planned and carried out OUTSIDE of Israel/Palestine.

So yeah, that is good evidence that Shoebat is a fraud.

What are you smoking, pro? Don’t you know that Shoebat claims to have joined the PLO in 1975 or 76 (I can’t remember which year).

Hamas was formed in 1987 and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad in 1979. How can he join those terrorist organizations before they were formed? You tell us since you’re surely the expert here.