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Fr. Benedict Groeschel: God is not Catholic, God is not Orthodox
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Makarios
Guest
Uh, he didn’t say that.
Deceiving people into your thread…not so Christian…
Deceiving people into your thread…not so Christian…
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SalesianSDB
Guest
That’s how I understood it.
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sulkow82
Guest
Could you elaborate more on why you think he said that. I don’t see it. He did say that he has the greatest consolation before the Crucifix.
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UniversalistGuy
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campeador
Guest
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SalesianSDB
Guest
The ‘A Reason to Believe’ video is one of my favorite videos on YouTube. I love Fr. Benedict!
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wisdomseeker
Guest
all i heard was him talking about faith. that is all, nothing else.
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lutherlic
Guest
I watched and listened twice, I didn’t here any such thing or even anything I could interpret in that way.
That said, I would not try to argue that God is Catholic. Jesus created His Church for us and it will last until the end of time (when He comes again). God is eternal and for Himself, does not need the Church. God is not us and we are not Him.
That said, I would not try to argue that God is Catholic. Jesus created His Church for us and it will last until the end of time (when He comes again). God is eternal and for Himself, does not need the Church. God is not us and we are not Him.
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trace_9r
Guest
Drawing a dismissive similarity between the Catholic church and the Orthodox church indicates they both share some illegitimacy and/or that they both somehow fall short of being good enough for God. Neither statement is true.
God chose one church, not two, to be his instrument of salvation. They are not equal, and only one is legitimate. Whether God “is” or “isn’t” this or that, He has chosen one church, made holy one church, and guides one church in truth. That is the Catholic church.
You present a stumbling block for believers and create confusion when you blurt out completely out-of-the-blue “interpretations” of a soundbite of Fr. Groeschel that said nothing about apostolic succession, etc. I admire your zeal for sharing your faith, though.
I would add that since we are made in God’s image, and God wants us to conform to his commandments, and God wants us to worship Him according to the ways of the Church, I would say He is most definitely Catholic. If He were not Catholic, He would want us to worship Him in some other way that is not Catholic.
God chose one church, not two, to be his instrument of salvation. They are not equal, and only one is legitimate. Whether God “is” or “isn’t” this or that, He has chosen one church, made holy one church, and guides one church in truth. That is the Catholic church.
You present a stumbling block for believers and create confusion when you blurt out completely out-of-the-blue “interpretations” of a soundbite of Fr. Groeschel that said nothing about apostolic succession, etc. I admire your zeal for sharing your faith, though.
I would add that since we are made in God’s image, and God wants us to conform to his commandments, and God wants us to worship Him according to the ways of the Church, I would say He is most definitely Catholic. If He were not Catholic, He would want us to worship Him in some other way that is not Catholic.
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mflorence
Guest
Yes, God made the unfathomably vast universe full of trillions upon trillions of galaxies spanning out beyond what the mind can comprehend, with trillions of solar systems within each for the pleasure of one religious sect on one small planet in one solar system on the edge of an average galaxy. You know, my dog knows that when he gives me his paw I give him a treat. He knows that when he sits up on his hind legs I give him two treats. He probably wonders how it is I fell into his power, and is probably certain that I am here to serve him. He thinks that he is the one chosen dog. He sees the complexities of my behavior in ways he can comprehend and that fit the machinations of his mind. He has learned certain things within the grasp of his intellect. To him, I am the giver of one of two treats, but he has no idea that if he learned to play the flute I would give him a whole bag of treats. He doesn’t even know what a flute is. I see similarities in the two lines of reasoning. To me they are both very primitive. I accept them both, but also see them for what they are. For you, God is a Catholic and it’s very simple. That’s fine. For me, it just doesn’t work that way. The biggest mistake the Catholic Church ever made with me was to give me the foundations of a really good education. From there, the horse got out of the barn, and every time he looks back at the barn, the sweeter the outside world looks.
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Luigi_Daniele
Guest
Father Benedict has influenced me greatly. I love his books.
He’s so orthodox (small o
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He’s so orthodox (small o
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Todd520
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trace_9r
Guest
Describing the use of the word “illegitimate” as both ‘harsh’ and ‘putting it mildly’ is quite ironic. I notice you did not say that it was untrue.
The word ‘legitimate’ stems from middle Latin meaning ‘made lawful’. Christ made lawful one church. There cannot be two legitimate churches which both have the same lawful authority and are not in communion. So, the statement is true. What is harsh may be described as the shame in coming to this knowledge.
To say the Orthodox church (or the Anglican church) partakes in apostolic succession is true only up until their respective true consecrated bishops choose of their own free will to make a break with the Catholic church, whether by action or inaction.
How can they say that the church that bestowed them with the power of appointment is no longer legitimate, but the power to appoint still is legitimate? Power and legitimacy stem directly from lawful authority. Therefore, every appointment and laying on of hands by a bishop who has denied the authority of the church, whether actively or passively, carries no power. If it did carry power, we could all create bishops and priests who are holy.
Also, you mentioned the idea of God being Catholic bizarre. Do you find the idea of Him being a man bizarre?
The word ‘legitimate’ stems from middle Latin meaning ‘made lawful’. Christ made lawful one church. There cannot be two legitimate churches which both have the same lawful authority and are not in communion. So, the statement is true. What is harsh may be described as the shame in coming to this knowledge.
To say the Orthodox church (or the Anglican church) partakes in apostolic succession is true only up until their respective true consecrated bishops choose of their own free will to make a break with the Catholic church, whether by action or inaction.
How can they say that the church that bestowed them with the power of appointment is no longer legitimate, but the power to appoint still is legitimate? Power and legitimacy stem directly from lawful authority. Therefore, every appointment and laying on of hands by a bishop who has denied the authority of the church, whether actively or passively, carries no power. If it did carry power, we could all create bishops and priests who are holy.
Also, you mentioned the idea of God being Catholic bizarre. Do you find the idea of Him being a man bizarre?
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Todd520
Guest
Two points
- I thought they left to get the church back on course.
Analogy: If you live in an apartment building that is crumbling from neglect (roof leaking, windows broken), and the current landloard (Rome) refuses to fix it, So you feel compelled to build a new smaller building next door with solid walls and roof to protect your family, how is that wrong? - Why would Christ take away their apostolic succession?
They just moved next door, to a house that better protects Christs children from the elements of the world.
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Todd520
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Sir, I used an analogy that depicted the historical sentiment of the groups that left the Church. I am not saying who was right or worng. I am not being disrespectful.
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Joseph_L_Varga
Guest
I knew this joke about the mouse who “trained” the scientist to give him a piece of cheese every time he climbed a ladder, but the way you put it is even funnier.
I will have to disagree with you, though, on the basis of God’s Divine Revelation. In other words, God appeared to Abraham, Jacob, later on to Moses, the Prophets, and finally was incarnated and born into this world in a human form (Jesus), solely for the purpose to reveal himself to us, and to teach us about his Kingdom, which is the Kingdom of Heaven, a Kingdom that God wishes us to become worthy of, and to join God there for all eternity. Obviously, God, our maker, believes that we humans, all of us, possess the ability to learn about Him, and to become worthy of his Kingdom (not through our own efforts alone, but by accepting God’s sanctifying grace). This is where the analogy with your dog, who will never be able to learn to play the flute, ends. We have it on God’s word, who is maker of the universe and maker of all of us, that we are able to learn about Him, able to walk in the way He is leading us, and finally become worthy of Him and of his Kingdom, by accepting his sanctifying grace and by faithfully following Him on the path He revealed to us.
I have to admit though, when we Catholics and Orthodox argue all day long about whether the correct path is the Catholic Church or the Orthodox Church, it does provide a spectacle for those who want to make fun of us.
Add to that all the sincere Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus, agnostics, and you get quite a cacophony. 
Still, all of this doesn’t affect the truth of God’s willingness and ability to lead to a full knowledge of Him and to give eternal life to all who sincerely seek Him. For starters, let’s ask, who was raised from death, with good, solid evidence of hundreds of people seeing him alive after he was publicly killed in the sight of a whole city? I know of one (1) such person, and his name is Jesus Christ.Another area you may wish to investigate, is the Marian apparitions, and the process of canonization of Saints in the Catholic Church, which always includes the proof that miracles (supernatural phenomena) have been happening. Check out Mary’s apparition at Fatima (Portugal, 1917), and the miracles witnessed by some seventy thousand (70,000) people. Check out Mary’s apparition at Lourdes (France, 1858) and the roughly 6,000 cures that happened since at Lourdes, fifty-eight (58) of them investigated into great detail and proven miraculous beyond the shadow of a doubt.
Check out the miracles occurring at the intercession of Saint Damien of Molokai Island (Hawaii) - he was recently canonized by the Catholic Church, one witness miraculously cured of lung cancer is still alive.
hawaiicatholicherald.org/BlessedDamien/tabid/311/newsid916/1565/Default.aspx
the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2009/Oct/08/ln/hawaii910080366.html
Or check out the miracles happening at the intercession of Blessed Francis Xavier Seelos, a 19th century priest of New Orleans. A New Orleans lady miraculously cured from terminal liver cancer, in the 1960s, at Blessed Francis’ intercession, deceased just recently after surviving her miraculous cure for 35 years.
The apparitions of Mary, and the lives and example of the saints, whom God glorified through miracles, are yet another way in which God leads us today.
Of course, you don’t need to search for God, if you don’t want to. However, those who search for Him with all their heart, will find Him. God promised this.
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mflorence
Guest
Hi Joseph: I think we agree on most points and I like the way you think. My point doesn’t deny the role of faith or belief in Jesus. My problem is with short sightedness. God gave Christians a good path to Him through Jesus and that is great. The belief that all of the billions of people who lived before Jesus and all the billions who never heard of Him, and many more who still follow other paths to God are there only to serve as a backdrop in contrast to the divine effulgence of one brand of Christianity is a very foolish and small view of God. I think we each just have to humbly follow whatever path our God given proclivities lead us to, and accept that others are no less valid in doing the same.
I knew this joke about the mouse who “trained” the scientist to give him a piece of cheese every time he climbed a ladder, but the way you put it is even funnier.
I will have to disagree with you, though, on the basis of God’s Divine Revelation. In other words, God appeared to Abraham, Jacob, later on to Moses, the Prophets, and finally was incarnated and born into this world in a human form (Jesus), solely for the purpose to reveal himself to us, and to teach us about his Kingdom, which is the Kingdom of Heaven, a Kingdom that God wishes us to become worthy of, and to join God there for all eternity. Obviously, God, our maker, believes that we humans, all of us, possess the ability to learn about Him, and to become worthy of his Kingdom (not through our own efforts alone, but by accepting God’s sanctifying grace). This is where the analogy with your dog, who will never be able to learn to play the flute, ends. We have it on God’s word, who is maker of the universe and maker of all of us, that we are able to learn about Him, able to walk in the way He is leading us, and finally become worthy of Him and of his Kingdom, by accepting his sanctifying grace and by faithfully following Him on the path He revealed to us.
I have to admit though, when we Catholics and Orthodox argue all day long about whether the correct path is the Catholic Church or the Orthodox Church, it does provide a spectacle for those who want to make fun of us.
Another area you may wish to investigate, is the Marian apparitions, and the process of canonization of Saints in the Catholic Church, which always includes the proof that miracles (supernatural phenomena) have been happening. Check out Mary’s apparition at Fatima (Portugal, 1917), and the miracles witnessed by some seventy thousand (70,000) people. Check out Mary’s apparition at Lourdes (France, 1858) and the roughly 6,000 cures that happened since at Lourdes, fifty-eight (58) of them investigated into great detail and proven miraculous beyond the shadow of a doubt.
Check out the miracles occurring at the intercession of Saint Damien of Molokai Island (Hawaii) - he was recently canonized by the Catholic Church, one witness miraculously cured of lung cancer is still alive.
hawaiicatholicherald.org/BlessedDamien/tabid/311/newsid916/1565/Default.aspx
the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2009/Oct/08/ln/hawaii910080366.html
Or check out the miracles happening at the intercession of Blessed Francis Xavier Seelos, a 19th century priest of New Orleans. A New Orleans lady miraculously cured from terminal liver cancer, in the 1960s, at Blessed Francis’ intercession, deceased just recently after surviving her miraculous cure for 35 years.
The apparitions of Mary, and the lives and example of the saints, whom God glorified through miracles, are yet another way in which God leads us today.
Of course, you don’t need to search for God, if you don’t want to. However, those who search for Him with all their heart, will find Him. God promised this.
Thanks again for the reply.
M
mflorence
Guest
Todd520 can correct me if I am wrong, but it’s hard to carry on such a discourse without reference to the infallibility doctrines that invariably find their way into such discussions. The shortcomings he mentions are simply a fact, and an open discussion is healthy. These shortcomings in particular are curious indeed against the backdrop of these infallibility claims that are used to support the notion of one church directed by divine guidance. The usual reply to such questions is that the doctrines, dogmas and divine guidance are infallible, but not so much the people, or the organization under the direction of people. This is a very clean and rather convenient explanation of many of the evils that have resulted from the actions of the organization throughout history, and I will tactfully not enumerate them here, as I think they are well enough known. The point is that there is a very peculiar relationship between what is said to be the infallible guidance of God and what seems to be a veritable 1,700 year penchant for running off course on a grand scale. I guess that’s the hard part. Logic would say that right thought would lead to right action, and in this case I see a ponderous gap between infallible thought and the manner in which these thoughts have eventually collapsed into reality time and time again. It’s downright intriguing, and unfortunately it’s going to come up.
Most non- Catholics that I know are fine with the Catholic faith. That includes, Protestants, Muslims, Jews, Hindus and whatever. It’s when the proclamations about one and only true and infallible churches and the shortcomings of anything else start to be flung about that the patience of others starts to get pushed a little far. It defies logic, and it follows that the line of discussion will naturally include inconvenient yet inescapable historical and contemporary references that highlight how these claims are incomprehensible in the light of practical experience.
Most non- Catholics that I know are fine with the Catholic faith. That includes, Protestants, Muslims, Jews, Hindus and whatever. It’s when the proclamations about one and only true and infallible churches and the shortcomings of anything else start to be flung about that the patience of others starts to get pushed a little far. It defies logic, and it follows that the line of discussion will naturally include inconvenient yet inescapable historical and contemporary references that highlight how these claims are incomprehensible in the light of practical experience.
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wisdomseeker
Guest
Jesus has an answer to that. He said to his apostles to obey the pharisees for they sat in the chair of Moses. not even the Lord of the House did not take the authority of the those He put in charge.
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