Fr. Cantalamessa? Help!....

[Crusade_Guy]

On Facebook (nvm if you don’t know what that is, it isn’t important)I was recently invited to this event which is going on in my diocese:
nformation

Event InfoName:
Papal Preacher, Fr. Raniero Cantalamessa, and Matt Maher, music
Tagline:
Fr. Raniero Cantalamessa, Preacher to the Papal Household on “The New Evangelization,” w/ music by M
Host:
Asbury Seminary and Diocese of Lexington
Type:

TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 20

11:00am: Asbury Seminary morning chapel, 201 N. Lexington Ave., Wilmore, KY, Father Cantalamessa preaching; music by Matt Maher

4:00pm: Beeson Lecture on Preaching, Session #1 @ Asbury Seminary. Theme: “The New Evangelization: Lessons from the Early Church for preaching in a Post-Modern World.”

6:30pm: Beeson Lecture on Preaching, Session # 2 @ Asbury Seminary.

cantalamessa.org

Now, I could be wrong but isn’t Cantalamessa a heretic? I see m to recall that he delivered a sermon in which he denied the Catholic doctrine of the necessity of works and merit for salvation and affirmed the Protestant doctrine of salvation by faith alone! I seem to recall some other blatantly heretical statements he has made about various issues. What should I do (if anything)? Should I attend these lectures and possibly question him about it? Many Catholics in this diocese (and obviously the bishop), as well as Protestants, consider this a good thing and many people could be deceived. Does anyone know of any resources or info about Cantalamessa? Thanks.

 

[Ace86]

On Facebook (nvm if you don’t know what that is, it isn’t important)I was recently invited to this event which is going on in my diocese:
nformation

Now, I could be wrong but isn’t Cantalamessa a heretic? I see m to recall that he delivered a sermon in which he denied the Catholic doctrine of the necessity of works and merit for salvation and affirmed the Protestant doctrine of salvation by faith alone! I seem to recall some other blatantly heretical statements he has made about various issues. What should I do (if anything)? Should I attend these lectures and possibly question him about it? Many Catholics in this diocese (and obviously the bishop), as well as Protestants, consider this a good thing and many people could be deceived. Does anyone know of any resources or info about Cantalamessa? Thanks.

I’m pretty sure that Father Cantalamessa is the Preacher to the Papal Household. That being the case, I don’t think he’s a heretic, or the pope would get rid of him.

 

[Crusade_Guy]

I’m pretty sure that Father Cantalamessa is the Preacher to the Papal Household. That being the case, I don’t think he’s a heretic, or the pope would get rid of him.

I wouldn’t so certain of that…the previous pope appointed numerous modernist bishops and never “got rid of” a single one. I

 

[JKirkLVNV]

I wouldn’t so certain of that…the previous pope appointed numerous modernist bishops and never “got rid of” a single one. I

Look into how bishops are appointed.

 

[Crusade_Guy]

Can. 351 §1. The Roman Pontiff freely selects men to be promoted as cardinals, who have been ordained at least into the order of the presbyterate and are especially outstanding in doctrine, morals, piety, and prudence in action; those who are not yet bishops must receive episcopal consecration.

§2. Cardinals are created by a decree of the Roman Pontiff which is made public in the presence of the college of cardinals. From the moment of the announcement they are bound by the duties and possess the rights defined by law.

§3. When the Roman Pontiff has announced the selection of a person to the dignity of cardinal but reserves the name of the person in pectore, the one promoted is not bound in the meantime by any of the duties of cardinals nor does he possess any of their rights. After the Roman Pontiff has made his name public, however, he is bound by the same duties and possesses the same rights; he possesses the right of precedence, though, from the day of reservation in pectore.

For example, Cardinal Mahoney…you are saying that John Paul II considered Mahoney to be “outstanding in doctrine, morals, piety, and prudence of action” when he appointed him, or that he knew Canon Law and chose to ignore it. Either way it doesn’t look favorable to JP2. I could understand appointing a handful of bad cardinals and bishops…but you would think after dozens and dozens of them the pope would have caught on.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

For example, Cardinal Mahoney…you are saying that John Paul II considered Mahoney to be “outstanding in doctrine, morals, piety, and prudence of action” when he appointed him, or that he knew Canon Law and chose to ignore it. Either way it doesn’t look favorable to JP2. I could understand appointing a handful of bad cardinals and bishops…but you would think after dozens and dozens of them the pope would have caught on.

No, I mean research the actual process.

 

[Unfinished]

On Facebook (nvm if you don’t know what that is, it isn’t important)I was recently invited to this event which is going on in my diocese:
nformation

Now, I could be wrong but isn’t Cantalamessa a heretic? I see m to recall that he delivered a sermon in which he denied the Catholic doctrine of the necessity of works and merit for salvation and affirmed the Protestant doctrine of salvation by faith alone! I seem to recall some other blatantly heretical statements he has made about various issues. What should I do (if anything)? Should I attend these lectures and possibly question him about it? Many Catholics in this diocese (and obviously the bishop), as well as Protestants, consider this a good thing and many people could be deceived. Does anyone know of any resources or info about Cantalamessa? Thanks.

No idea about the priest, but I do enjoy Matt Maher. If nothing else, I would go for Matt and if the priest was a heretic you could at least correct as many people as you were able.

On his website, he has a list of his sermons.

cantalamessa.org/en/preaching.htm

Check out a few of them if you are worried. I will browse through and let you know if I see anything that sticks out.

 

[Unfinished]

Fr. Cantalamessa:

In this respect something strange has occurred. To the objections raised by the reformers, the Council of Trent had given a Catholic response, that there is a place for faith and for good works, each one, it was understood, in its place. One is not saved by good works, but one cannot be saved without good works. Nevertheless, from this moment in which the Protestants insisted unilaterally on faith, Catholic preaching and spirituality ended up accepting the nearly exclusive and thankless work of calling to mind the need for good works and of one’s personal contribution to salvation. The result is that the great majority of Catholics have lived entire lives without having ever heard a direct announcement of gratuitous justification by faith, without too many “buts.”

It was a REAL quick scan, but that should answer your faith/works question.

 

[Crusade_Guy]

My roommate was looking at these sermons tonight and right away found some problematic stuff. I’ll try to find the exact links and I will post them when I do. The sad thing about this is, it isn’t even just the Catholic diocese that is hosting him but some Protestant seminary, and some group called “Alpha-USA”. I don’t want to sound too judgmental–and I know I have read stuff he has said in the past that sounds heretical–but even if there isn’t anything blatantly wrong in his sermons, the fact that his preaching does not offend Protestants in any way troubles me. Not that we should deliberately try to offend them in our sermons, but if we are preaching the Catholic faith truly there are bound to be many things they would not accept and they certainly wouldn’t invite such a person to come preach at their seminary. There is going to be an “Ecumenical Service” at a Methodist Church too…isn’t that a sin? I know that it used to be a sin to even attend a Protestant church, now we can hold worship services with them? Of course, it is fortunate that Cantalamessa at least teaches the necessity of faith in Christ for salvation and only holds joint worship with other Christian, albeit heretical, sects…given the fact that in the past certain very high-ranking churchmen have held worship services with pagans and false religions and have said that one can be saved without having faith in Christ, ahem ahem.
I think the Matt Maher thing is part of some other ecumenical/protestant service too, at least it is taking place in a chapel on the grounds of that Protestant seminary and the little bookmark I have with all the info lists Matt Maher as “worship leader.” I may still go at least to question Fr. Cantalamessa about his teaching at least so everyone knows the Catholic Church doesn’t now teach sola fide regardless of what Cantalamessa says. If I do go it will definitely be as an observer not as a participant.

 

[Unfinished]

My roommate was looking at these sermons tonight and right away found some problematic stuff. I’ll try to find the exact links and I will post them when I do. The sad thing about this is, it isn’t even the Catholic diocese that is hosting him but some Protestant seminary! They are having an “Ecumenical Service” at a Methodist Church too…isn’t that a sin? I know that it used to be a sin to even attend a Protestant church, now we can hold worship services with them? I think the Matt Maher thing is part of some other ecumenical/protestant service too, at least it is taking place in a chapel on the grounds of that Protestant seminary and the little bookmark I have with all the info lists Matt Maher as “worship leader.” I may still go at least to question Fr. Cantalamessa about his teaching at least so everyone knows the Catholic Church doesn’t now teach sola fide regardless of what Cantalamessa says. If I do go it will definitely be as an observer not as a participant.

Worship leader? ug.

Matt is as Catholic as they come. Maybe he will sing his rendition of “Tantum Ergo.” I don’t follow his whole tour schedule, but I do enjoy his music and it would do some Protestants good to listen to it.

We are trying to get him to come down here. the “contemporary Catholic music” lady (for lack of a better name) in my diocese is in contact with his agent and Matt said he really wanted to come to one of our Holy Hours for vocations.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

My roommate was looking at these sermons tonight and right away found some problematic stuff. I’ll try to find the exact links and I will post them when I do. The sad thing about this is, it isn’t even just the Catholic diocese that is hosting him but some Protestant seminary, and some group called “Alpha-USA”. I don’t want to sound too judgmental–and I know I have read stuff he has said in the past that sounds heretical–but even if there isn’t anything blatantly wrong in his sermons, the fact that his preaching does not offend Protestants in any way troubles me. Not that we should deliberately try to offend them in our sermons, but if we are preaching the Catholic faith truly there are bound to be many things they would not accept and they certainly wouldn’t invite such a person to come preach at their seminary. There is going to be an “Ecumenical Service” at a Methodist Church too…isn’t that a sin? I know that it used to be a sin to even attend a Protestant church, now we can hold worship services with them? Of course, it is fortunate that Cantalamessa at least teaches the necessity of faith in Christ for salvation and only holds joint worship with other Christian, albeit heretical, sects…given the fact that in the past certain very high-ranking churchmen have held worship services with pagans and false religions and have said that one can be saved without having faith in Christ, ahem ahem.
I think the Matt Maher thing is part of some other ecumenical/protestant service too, at least it is taking place in a chapel on the grounds of that Protestant seminary and the little bookmark I have with all the info lists Matt Maher as “worship leader.” I may still go at least to question Fr. Cantalamessa about his teaching at least so everyone knows the Catholic Church doesn’t now teach sola fide regardless of what Cantalamessa says. If I do go it will definitely be as an observer not as a participant.

Many Protestants are feeling the need for many elements that the Church possesses in their fullness (for example, many are rethinking the role of Mary in salvation). Because of this, they seem more willing to listen.

 

[Contarini]

On Facebook (nvm if you don’t know what that is, it isn’t important)I was recently invited to this event which is going on in my diocese:
nformation

Now, I could be wrong but isn’t Cantalamessa a heretic? I see m to recall that he delivered a sermon in which he denied the Catholic doctrine of the necessity of works and merit for salvation and affirmed the Protestant doctrine of salvation by faith alone!

Perhaps you should try reading the text of the sermon before judging it. He did not deny a single Catholic dogma, as far as I can tell. Your sources are either ignorant or malicious. Frankly, I’ll trust the preacher to the papal household to interpret Catholic doctrine before I’ll trust some random guy on the Internet.

What should I do (if anything)? Should I attend these lectures and possibly question him about it?

I certainly hope you don’t, since I am going to urge my online students (I’m teaching a church history class for Asbury Seminary) to attend the lectures (alas, I live too far away). If some Catholic gets up and starts ranting about how Fr. Cantalamessa is a heretic, it’s not going to help me convince the Protestant students that Fr. Cantalamessa represents Catholicism. But it’s your right to scuttle my evil ecumenical schemes if you want to! Just please do actually read the sermon (which is available on the Internet) before you create a fuss. Make sure you know what you are talking about.

Also, the Catholic Church has irrevocably committed itself to ecumenism and has strongly encouraged joint worship (short of Eucharistic communion, of course). I know that you may not care one bit what your own Pope says (given that this is the “Traditional”–otherwise known as “more Catholic than the Pope” board). But the Pope has clearly spoken in favor of “spiritual ecumenism,” and Fr. Cantalamessa’s visit to Asbury is a potentially momentous step forward in that project.

Frankly, I think you are speaking evil of things you haven’t even tried to understand. One would think that “Traditional Catholics” would be more likely to practice traditional virtues like humility and obedience, but it doesn’t seem like it. I know Asbury Seminary to some extent (my wife knows it much better, having attended it and being the granddaughter of a former president). The Wesleyan tradition Asbury represents (and with which I identify myself, although in its most high-church version) has a lot in common with Catholicism. (Actually our doctrine of faith and works differs very little from yours, which is why Fr. Cantalamessa’s message about justification is so important for us–it may not do much for Baptists, because however you explain the Catholic position there are going to be huge gaps. But we are divided from you, on this issue at least, largely by differing emphasis, different terminology, and centuries of mutual misunderstanding.) Furthermore, evangelicals of a Wesleyan bent don’t have a rich intellectual heritage, and we are always open to temptation by Calvinism. In the end we (Wesleyan Protestants) face the choice between the two–Calvinism or Catholicism. When I teach church history online for Asbury, it’s astounding how Calvinist many of the students are, because in Protestant circles this is probably the most intellectually coherent and spiritually deep option these days, if one isn’t going to move toward Catholicism. There’s a war going on for the soul of the Wesleyan tradition, and Fr. Cantalemessa’s visit could make an important contribution to that war.

In Christ,

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

My roommate was looking at these sermons tonight and right away found some problematic stuff. I’ll try to find the exact links and I will post them when I do.

You can’t even remember what is “problematic,” but that doesn’t do one thing to blunt the edge of your blind zeal, does it? How can you possibly be some kind of valiant defender of the faith when you don’t even care enough to get your information straight?

Edwin

 

[Crusade_Guy]

Contarini,
If the “ecumenism” you speak of does not lead to conversion to the Catholic faith, outside of which is no salvation, then it is a false ecumenism and no true Catholic can support it in good conscience because it leads to religious indifference. I have read several of Cantalamessa’s sermons and several of his statements (specifically regarding Martin Luther and the charismatic/pentecostal movement) and found them quite problematic and confusing. It is hardly suprising that one who is a member of a man-made ecclesial community which is constantly changing its doctrines (or rather, getting rid of doctrines), electing homo “bishops”, and shifting its stance on moral issues to keep up with the times would be pleased with someone like Cantalamessa, who teaches a gospel that is that is so vague and watered-down to the lowest common denominator so that it offends hardly anyone. After all, as New Oxford Review magnificiently stated in one of their advertisements, the Episcopal Church is not the true church and has never claimed to be; the Lord has simply let that church go her gay and goofy way. The Catholic Church, however, IS the one true church and Catholics loyal to their Church’s traditions must vehemently defend this doctrine and proclaim it as necessary for salvation in these times of confusion. If the current Pope encourages and participates in joint worship services with heretical sects, then I disagree with him and think what he is doing is wrong. I have on my side dozens of previous popes who condemned such worship as false and a mortal sin. Traditional Catholics understand that the Pope is authoritative and we obey him when he is obedient to tradition; but if he departs from it, while we respect his office as pope and submit to him in infallible decisions, we cannot join him in this error. In this since maybe we are “more Catholic than the pope”, since we are saying the same thing that popes and theologians in the past have said.
Why should a Catholic be concerned about the “war” for the Wesleyan tradition? The “Wesleyan tradition” is steeped in heresy and false teaching. The only war the Catholic should be concerned with is the war for souls to be brought into the Church so that they too might be saved. Why should a Catholic be concerned about the squabbles among various Protestant denominations? It matters not whether one is Wesleyan or Calvinist, for there is no salvation to be found in either of those false religions.

 

[Crusade_Guy]

BTW here are some links highlighting Cantalamessa’s false teaching:
fatimaperspectives.com/sv/perspective517.asp
fatimaperspectives.com/sv/perspective516.asp
fatimaperspectives.com/sv/perspective472.asp
traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/a017htPentacostal_Vennari.htm

This isn’t about Cantalamessa specifically but about false ecumenism:
dailycatholic.org/issue/2003Apr/1aprfor.htm

 

[John_Higgins]

Hey, CG, how 'bout posting links to sites that aren’t sedevacantist (Daily “Catholic”), run by a dissident priest (the Fatima sites) , or pseudo-sedevacantist site (TIA).

John

 

[Crusade_Guy]

Hey John, the only thing Fr. Gruner “dissents” from is false teaching…amazing how men who lead people astray like Fr. Cantalamessa are given positions like preacher to the papal household and faithful priests like Fr. Gruner are labled “dissident.” And what difference does it make WHERE the articles come from? They’re written by reputable men like John Vennari and Christopher Ferrara–neither of whom are sedevacantists. Do you actually have anything to refute their arguments?

 

[mystified]

Fr. Cantalamessa is a Capuchin Franciscan friar with a background as an academic. Originally appointed to the papal preaching position by JPII, he seems to have been either reappointed or simply continued in that job by Benedict XVI. It doesn’t seem, then, that he is considered heretical nor has he been excommunicated by Rome.

Some of his sermons have been controversial, and he is a favorite target of disidents who deny authority of the Pope.

Being controversial does not make one a hertic. As I recall, the late American Fr. Ray Brown, SS, was seen by some as controversial, but I don’t think anyone considered him a heretic. And I suppose that another famous preacher might have been considered controversial and even a heretic by some: His name, Jesús of Nazareth.

 

[Crusade_Guy]

Fr. Cantalamessa is a Capuchin Franciscan friar with a background as an academic. Originally appointed to the papal preaching position by JPII, he seems to have been either reappointed or simply continued in that job by Benedict XVI. It doesn’t seem, then, that he is considered heretical nor has he been excommunicated by Rome.

That’s not saying much. Why do you think we have such a crisis in our Church now, because Rome has been excommunicating heretics left and right? I don’t think so…the world is full of heretical bishops and priests and they aren’t disciplined, instead they are actually given prominent positions. Interestingly, I know of one notorious group of bishops and priests who were “excommunicated” by the Pope himself even though they actually resist heresy…at the same time, that same Pope was appointing Mahoney as the Cardinal of L.A.

 

[Balance]

… Now, I could be wrong but isn’t Cantalamessa a heretic? …

That you are quite happy to begin this thread with such a statement says something about you, Crusade Guy, and also about your faith. Your profile says, under “Religion”, “Catholic.” And yet, here you are, happily labelling someone about whom you admit you don’t know much, beyond finding some of his writings “problematic,” a heretic.
Catechism paragraph 2475.
Christ’s disciples have “put on the new man, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.” By “putting away falsehood,” they are to “put away all malice and all guile and insincerity and envy and all slander.”

I don’t know if that makes sense to you, what I’m trying to say there. I hope it does.

I see m to recall …] I seem to recall

Oh dear. You “seem to recall,” and again “seem to recall.” Can you not see the ugliness of what you are doing? Labelling Fr Cantalamessa a “heretic” based on something you only “seem to recall.” I don’t know you beyond what I see you write on these boards - I wonder what you are really like, because the impression I have of you is not good.

… the previous pope appointed numerous modernist bishops … I

Another label, happily slapped out there. “Modernist bishops” -I wonder if would you call them that to their face, or do you just do it here behind their back?

My roommate was looking at these sermons tonight and right away found some problematic stuff.

“Some problematic stuff” - so, any specifics?

… I have read stuff he has said in the past that sounds heretical-- …

So, is it heretical, or is it not? Or is it just your opinion, that it “sounds” heretical? Is it theological speculation, which, by its nature, can be dense and obscure, but perfectly licit and “orthodox,” that, to your eye, “sounds” heretical?

…There is going to be an “Ecumenical Service” at a Methodist Church too…isn’t that a sin?..

Is it? You’re telling the story. Is it a sin? If so, why? What do you base that on?

… very high-ranking churchmen have held worship services with pagans and false religions and have said that one can be saved without having faith in Christ, ahem ahem. …

Is this sly little reference going to be backed up, or just left to hang in the air like a bad smell?

I think the Matt Maher thing is part of some other ecumenical/protestant service too, …

You think?

I may still go at least to question Fr. Cantalamessa about his teaching at least so everyone knows the Catholic Church doesn’t now teach sola fide regardless of what Cantalamessa says. If I do go it will definitely be as an observer not as a participant.

“So everyone knows” - what, you’re going to make up and hand out flyers? Or just stand up in the middle of a talk and heckle Cantalamessa?

Contarini,
If the “ecumenism” you speak of does not lead to conversion to the Catholic faith, outside of which is no salvation,

It sounds to me that your understanding of what this means might be alittle defective. Could you go back to your Catechism, start with these two paragraphs and go from there?
(Note that I’m not saying these two quotes stand alone. They’re a start.)
1741 Liberation and salvation. By his glorious Cross Christ has won salvation for all men. He redeemed them from the sin that held them in bondage. “For freedom Christ has set us free.” In him we have communion with the “truth that makes us free.” The Holy Spirit has been given to us and, as the Apostle teaches, “Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.” Already we glory in the “liberty of the children of God.”

819 “Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth” are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: “the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements.” Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to “Catholic unity.”