Fr Gary Dickson: Why the Old Form thrives in my parish

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Here’s an article published in the UK’s Catholic Herald. Father Z put it up on his blog.

Excerpt:

*“In scheduling the Old Form, objections came mainly from those who experienced the heady days of the Church’s surge into change after Vatican Council II and who saw change and informality as the order of the day. It is understandably hard for them to welcome back their heritage when it evokes things considered long gone and appears to undo what was established by priests they have loved. But honesty compels us to acknowledge that we all abandoned things the Council decreed we retain, while loyalty demands we recover them by authentic catechesis on both the Council and the Ordinary Form.” *

catholicherald.co.uk/features/2010/07/01/why-the-old-form-thrives-in-my-parish/
 
“Finally, we ensure that those who wish to receive on the hand may continue to do so in accord with current canonical rights and obligations. Receiving in the hand while kneeling poses no problem, while those who cannot kneel make the required act of reverence by receiving on the tongue.”
Interesting!
 
Ockham said:
Here’s an article published in the UK’s Catholic Herald. Father Z put it up on his blog.

Excerpt:

*“In scheduling the Old Form, objections came mainly from those who experienced the heady days of the Church’s surge into change after Vatican Council II and who saw change and informality as the order of the day. It is understandably hard for them to welcome back their heritage when it evokes things considered long gone and appears to undo what was established by priests they have loved. But honesty compels us to acknowledge that we all abandoned things the Council decreed we retain, while loyalty demands we recover them by authentic catechesis on both the Council and the Ordinary Form.” *

catholicherald.co.uk/features/2010/07/01/why-the-old-form-thrives-in-my-parish/
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great article. why can this article be sent to all Catholics all over the world?

that is what we need, assurance, precision, and to the point. no beating around the bushes while the faithfull have been deceived by many bishops, and priests, and theologians. as long as they insist in keeping what is blasphemous, the Church will continue to suffer for the sins against God.
 
MarkThompson said:
“Finally, we ensure that those who wish to receive on the hand may continue to do so in accord with current canonical rights and obligations. Receiving in the hand while kneeling poses no problem, while those who cannot kneel make the required act of reverence by receiving on the tongue.”
Interesting!
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An unfortunate yet necessary PR concession I"m sure. I highly doubt many people would attend the EF and yet expect to receive the Blessed Sacrament in hand while standing.
 
Ockham said:
An unfortunate yet necessary PR concession I"m sure. I highly doubt many people would attend the EF and yet expect to receive the Blessed Sacrament in hand while standing.
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How did you get “PR” out of “current canonical rights”?
 
Ockham said:
An unfortunate yet necessary PR concession I"m sure. I highly doubt many people would attend the EF and yet expect to receive the Blessed Sacrament in hand while standing.
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I have been to one of his masses no one received in the hand from what I could see, a couple of old folks received standing. However Father Dickson been an ordinary secular parish priest cannot legally deny people from receiving in the hand any more than a priest can legally deny me from receiving kneeling and on the tongue as it is allowed by the Church and by his Bishop.

Priests attached to traditional orders are luckier in thsi regard as their superiors have a certain amount of authority over how the blessed sacrament is to be received in the churches under their care akin to that of a Bishop and Bishops do have the authority to ban receiving communion in the hand in their parishes as shown by the fact it has happened in certain countries in South America, it always was and remains merely an option not a norm unlike kneeling and on the tongue.

Now if only Bishops would so so.
 
Appeasing the disobedient. Yes, I know, “It’s approved” but the commonly avoided question is “Should it be?”. It’s widely known COTT is the norm at the EF.
 
Ockham said:
Appeasing the disobedient. Yes, I know, “It’s approved” but the commonly avoided question is “Should it be?”. It’s widely known COTT is the norm at the EF.
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That question is not avoided, a parish priest simply does not have the authority to impose his judgement when it is contrary to what the Church allows and contrary to the direction of his superior the Bishop no matter how much he would like to, to do so he would be acting in a schismatic way which would be harmful to the unity of the Church, which is extremely fragile at this moment in time.

Of course there is nothing to stop a parishioner offering to explain to the person why they should receive on the tongue, I’m sure the priest would appreciate it as long as it is done in a manner which does not cause offence and of course after mass not during.
 
Advocatus_Fidei said:
That question is not avoided, a parish priest simply does not have the authority to impose his judgement when it is contrary to what the Church allows and contrary to the direction of his superior the Bishop no matter how much he would like to, to do so he would be acting in a schismatic way which would be harmful to the unity of the Church, which is extremely fragile at this moment in time.

Of course there is nothing to stop a parishioner offering to explain to the person why they should receive on the tongue, I’m sure the priest would appreciate it as long as it is done in a manner which does not cause offence and of course after mass not during.
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See, you just avoided the question.
 
The problem is not with the people. the problem is with the bishops and priests. if tomorrow, the bishops said: we all must receive Communion in the tongue and on the knees, everyone would abide by it. it is the bishops who dont want to. it is them who decides things.
 
Advocatus_Fidei said:
I think we all agree on here it shouldn’t be, but doesn’t change the fact that it is and priests have to act accordingly.
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Well, traditional Catholics may all agree that it shouldn’t be but there are non-traditional Catholics on here who dispute that sentiment fanatically.

Of course the priest should not deny someone presenting themselves for Holy Communion while standing and in hand. However, would it not be disrespectful to attend an EF and expect this ‘spirit of V2’ practice?
 
What has that got to do with the article Ockham really?

It is approved so the priest has to do it so the priest does do it, there is nothing to talk about really.
 
Advocatus_Fidei said:
I think we all agree on here it shouldn’t be, but doesn’t change the fact that it is and priests have to act accordingly.
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Ockham said:
Well, traditional Catholics may all agree that it shouldn’t be but there are non-traditional Catholics on here who dispute that sentiment fanatically.

Of course the priest should not deny someone presenting themselves for Holy Communion while standing and in hand. However, would it not be disrespectful to attend an EF and expect this ‘spirit of V2’ practice?
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We all (well, we “regulars” at least) know that the normal mode for reception of communion in the EF is COTT kneeling. Now, while it may exist, I, personally, am not familiar with, nor have I heard tell of, any other practice in the EF in the US (or elsewhere besides the UK). In any case, it would seem that the norm of COTT kneeling would apply to the EF unless the competent local authority instructs otherwise. I am, of course, not privy to the details, but I have a suspicion that CITH kneeling (standing and on the tongue as an option for those unable to kneel, which I find equally interesting) is as a result of the local bishop’s instruction.

Advocatus Fidei, since you’re apparently somewhat local to the parish in the article, perhaps you know something about, or at least have a take on, that?
 
malphono said:
We all (well, we “regulars” at least) know that the normal mode for reception of communion in the EF is COTT kneeling. Now, while it may exist, I, personally, am not familiar with, nor have I heard tell of, any other practice in the EF in the US (or elsewhere besides the UK). In any case, it would seem that the norm of COTT kneeling would apply to the EF unless the competent local authority instructs otherwise. I am, of course, not privy to the details, but I have a suspicion that CITH kneeling (standing and on the tongue as an option for those unable to kneel, which I find equally interesting) is as a result of the local bishop’s instruction.

Advocatus Fidei, since you’re apparently somewhat local to the parish in the article, perhaps you know something about, or at least have a take on, that?
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I am not aware of any Bishops instruction, from what I am aware of the Bishop does not even acknowledge that the EF is taking place,where the EF is available it is available because priests like Father Dickson have chosen to make it so on their own initiative without either a command from the Bishop or request from the laity.
 
wisdomseeker said:
The problem is not with the people. the problem is with the bishops and priests. if tomorrow, the bishops said: we all must receive Communion in the tongue and on the knees, everyone would abide by it. it is the bishops who dont want to. it is them who decides things.
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The way I see it, this could more easily be accomplished by setting up a communion rail, even if it’s a few kneelers, at every parish. Most will get the hint.
 
Advocatus_Fidei said:
I am not aware of any Bishops instruction, from what I am aware of the Bishop does not even acknowledge that the EF is taking place,where the EF is available it is available because priests like Father Dickson have chosen to make it so on their own initiative without either a command from the Bishop or request from the laity.
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Ah … one of those, eh? Makes it even more wonderful that there are priests like Fr Dickson who successfully implement SP on their own initiative. 👍

I would guess, then, that the COTT accommodation is driven (at least in part) by the priest’s desire to avoid a potential point of conflict with the chancery on what is often a hot-button issue.
 
Just a thought, there seems to be such division within the Church on many issues, whether it is receiving kneeling and on the tongue or doing away with kneelers, statues, moving the Tabernacle to a place where it can’t be seen.

It appears that Pope Benedict would like to take the Church back in some of the traditional ways. What if he ordered everything to change to the way it was, except have the Mass be celebrated from the EF translated into English or use Latin. What would Catholics who don’t like the old traditions do? Would they leave the Church or accept with obedience as was done after VII?

It would be interesting to see the responses if this were to happen.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette
 
ProVobis said:
The way I see it, this could more easily be accomplished by setting up a communion rail, even if it’s a few kneelers, at every parish. Most will get the hint.
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correct. all Catholics know what to do. all they have to do is bring it back.
 
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