Fr. Groeschel compared illegal immigrants to slaves

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While you are right that reckless driving is a criminal misdemeanor… We routinely cite people for high speeds and as far as I know no one in my department has ever issued reckless driving charges based on speed alone.
Wow! Thanks! I had no idea this analogy was so close in comparison. It’s the same with the INS. Only difference is that rather than give people **entering the US **without proper legal documentation a ticket they are “permitted to voluntarily depart in lieu of removal”! Kinda like an officer giving me a warning instead of a ticket.:rolleyes:
In 2004, for example, the Border Patrol seized approximately 1.16 million -]aliens/-] [persons]who unlawfully entered or attempted to enter the United States from Mexico only about 16,000 -]aliens/-] [persons] (mostly serial offenders) were convicted of the crime of unlawful entry.
what’s that? about 1%?
 
what’s that? about 1%?
Probably. In fact, when we take illegal aliens to jail INS does not even want to be bothered unless it is a serious misdemeanor or felony.

For example, even if it’s a simple shoplifting and it is known with absolute certainty that the person is an illegal alien they won’t do anything. The INS around here only goes after the big fish to fry (and to a certain extent, I understand that. Better to focus the most resources on the violent and serious criminal offenders). They also spend more time in going after employers instead of individual illegal aliens.
 
I really like listening to Fr. Groeschel. I head this show also. But, I disagree with him here. Slaves had no choice in their being moved from one country to another. It was not their choice. Illegal immigrants are those that made a conscious decision to move from one place to another without legal rights to do so.

I do find this reference as a truth in the case of minor children that have no say in where their parents take them. Or someone that was kidnapped and moved against his.her own will.
Agreed. They aren’t beaten or kept against their will either. However, the conditions in some of the agricultural camps is deplorable, and some employers are taking advantage of the workers’ legal status to treat them differently than they would a legal resident or citizen.

For clarity, I say “some,” because I know that the camps my wife’s “relatives” (that’s another story) worked at were pretty decent. Also, the illegal aliens I worked with when I was in the hospitality industry were living in the same conditions as their coworkers.

I did notice that Fr. Groeschel mentioned the way in which false SSNs are rejected only once. I don’t know how all that works, but if it is true, then that is a system that desperately needs fixing. A second false SSN should lead to deportation.
 
I love Fr. G., but some of his views on foreign affairs, and especially Latin America, are skewed. Somehow he’s bought into the myth that the U.S. is responsible for all of Latin America’s problems, and that all Latin Americans are therefore saintly. Ain’t so.
 
I have learned what God and holy mother church taught me from the moment I could think which is to love thy neighbor as thyself. I have tried to do this. But we need to make a distinction here. Do we allow the country to dissolve into anarchy because the Church tells us to welcome an unlimited number of strangers sojourning in our country. I don’t think so. Illegal aliens break our laws, steal from our welfare system and millions don’t pay taxes. You all know this intuitively. Unfortunately the USCCB, many of our Bishop’s, clergy and religious persist in blurring the distinction between the legal immigrant and the illegal alien. Just look around your diocese and you will see it everywhere. There is no balance. We are constantly told that if we don’t welcome the illegal stranger who is breaking our laws, living a life of crime and causing mayhem in our cities that we are intolerant or even worse, racists. Just look at your diocesean newspaper and many of the messages placed on this topic.

As far as I know we have about 20 million illegal aliens of all races, colors and creeds in our country. Just how many more should we happily welcome? Some of you apparently believe that 20M isn’t enough. Would 100M be enough? If not how about 500M? What number will make you happy? Personally I think America has finally reached the tipping point. Apparently 70% of the American public in recent polls believe illegal immigration needs to be stopped.

Judge not lest ye be judged…
 
I find Father Groeschel very misinformed and misguided in his views on immigration and Latin America. When he detours from religion and wanders into those topics, I tune him out.
 
why do the legal people here all have to follow rules and laws of the land and are told in church not to sin etc but the illegals aren’t. they are not only breaking laws by merely being here–but if they are working and or paying taxes somehow, then they are breaking both tax and social security laws, they are most likely driving illegally bc they cannot get licenses and most likely don’t have insurance either, also against the law, these are all crimes, the list goes on and on. then we are told by our church that these poor innocent people are so great and we must help them (aiding and abetting!!!) and welcome them! why? i’d like to pick a few laws to break then too please and have the church back me on those. i can give a sad tale too. everyone, poor or not, mexican or not, should all have to follow the same laws. mexico should be ashamed and should be pressured by the church to help their own and if americans want to help, it should be in the form of teaching them how to do something to make it in mexico. or how to come here legally. let’'s pressure the mexican government into taking some responsibility here. why are we all made to feel horrible and not good catholics if we don’t want illegals? they are criminals. why aren’t they held to the standard we legal catholics are held to? i am an immigrant from a spanish speaking country and i came here legally and if i can do it, anyone else can too. get it line, wait your turn and do things the right way. the fact that the catholic church is condoning this behavior by illegal mexicans is appalling. why do they condone this? i live in california, sorry to burst your bubble previous poster, most of us hispanics are not legal. let’s be compassionate and loving by also law abiding.
 
Illegal immigration is wrong but I think it’s also wrong to break up families and such when people did this because they need to make a living. I think it’s terrible that they would tear a child out of a mother’s arms just because the child is a US citizen but the mother was here illegally. And it’s true, a lot of immigration policies were originally meant to keep the country as WASP-ish as possible. It’s sad.

Not all Latin Americans are here illegally either and most of them don’t want to cause trouble. They want a better life for themselves and their kids. I think we should support measures to help them come here legally.

The Spanish Mass comment was unbelievably racist. Would you say the same about an Italian language Mass? Or French? Or Twi (Ghanaian, which a friend of mine attended not too long ago)? People have a right to pray in their own language (after VII, anyway) and keep their culture. Doesn’t make them less Catholic or American.

The USCCB is big on helping them simply because there is a lot of social injustice in many Latin American countries. Since the vast majority of us do not work with foreign policy on the grand scale (though many I know are going into that, lol), we can’t really just up and go to their governments and tell them to take care of their people. We have to take care of our brothers and sisters regardless. I think it’s more Christian to help a family than to deport them back to a country where there’s a lot of injustice, or to break up a family based on who is legal/US citizen and who isn’t.
 
I love Fr. G., but some of his views on foreign affairs, and especially Latin America, are skewed. Somehow he’s bought into the myth that the U.S. is responsible for all of Latin America’s problems, and that all Latin Americans are therefore saintly. Ain’t so.
It’s not just a myth. We did remove democratically elected leaders in our misguided ideological battles against Communism and put horrible dictators in their stead. Pinochet, anyone? The president of Nicaragua? Any others? Sure, it was 20 years ago, but those countries are still messed up because of it.

Not all the problems, but we’d be liars if we said the US was completely blameless. We have to stop trying to fix people’s governments unless the people themselves, as allies, ask for help.
 
none are ever going to ask for help if they can just come here and free load. no one forces them to come so if and when the families are split, then it has been a choice on their part. they all know they are illegal and know they run the risk of being caught or deported so when they chose to continue to act in this manner, they must also chose the consequences. they watch tv, talk to their neighbors and listen to the radio and spanish language media is always talking about it. if you know you may get burned but still play with fire, disregarding any instruction or rule given, then YOU are responsible. i just want to know why we must obey the church and obey the laws but they don’t have to? also, try going to mexico illegally and staying there and see what happens to you! they are one of the most intolerant countries on the planet when it comes to illegal immigration. read up on guatemalans or cubans in mexico who are illegal. they are horrible to illegals in their country yet expect the united states to take theirs at any cost and do it with a smile on their faces. and as for amnesty and a path to quick legalization–why would we reward lawlessness? so, come here illegally and we will give you a quick way to regularize your status even after you have broken numerous laws and thumbed your nose as this country at every turn?? they refuse to do something as simple as learn the language. even my kindergardener knows not to cut and to do the right thing. go back, wait in line, wait your turn, do things the correct way. i did it. my husband did it. we are neither famous not millionaires nor extraordinary in any way nor better than anyone else, we just followed the rules. if we can, i’m sorry, then they can too.
 
While I did not see or hear Father Groeschel remarks, I have read and listened to several priests and Bishops views on Illegal Immigrants, as well as secular political comantators.
From what others have said about his remarks in this thread, he does not soudn too far off the mark.
People are all made in the image of God, and need to be treateed as such, it is out Christian duty to do so. Many of the Illegal Immigrants, are people who want what we do, they just made bad choices along the way. Projecting blame on one side or the other just insures that nothing will get done about it. Clearly there is a demmand for the labor they provide. It only makes sense that we try and find a way for them to meet that demmand in an orderly fasion that respects their dignaty.
On the other side of the fence all people have a right to defend themselves. One of the reason’s people help smuggle Illegal’s in is that it covers their Drug traffic operations. Not to mention criminals looking to escape the jail time in their native lands
There is no reason we can not have the security we citizens of America deserve and allow unskilled people into our country to work. I takes a little compassion, a little thought, and a wiilingness to place others above your own personal gain.
Sorry for being so long winded, I’ll get off my soapbox now
WSD
:o
 
I think that the illegal immigration issue is probably more nuanced than most people assume. Some people act as if they are all gang members and drunk drivers, and others act as if illegal immigrants commit no sin.

I do think that a very good reason for ensuring that all people are here legally is to make sure that we don’t have criminals and gang members entering, etc., and *also *because a lot of illegal immigrants are totally taken advantage of, in many different ways, and have no recourse to help.
sorry I am w/Fr. G on this one. Our immigration laws have their origin in the the same late 19th early 20th c. mentality that fostered Margaret Sanger, social darwinism, sterilization of the unfit, and ultimately, national socialism. Their purpose was to keep out anyone who was not WASP. read the debates in the legislatures and in the press heralding their passage. the immigration laws are a product of the same thinking that gave is Jim Crow and segregation de jure and de facto.
The immigration laws were overhauled in the 60s to allow greater quotas for 3rd world nations and lower quotas for Europeans, so all this about the link between eugenics and immigration laws is somewhat out of date.
 
First of all I have to agree that Fr. Groeschel is completely off base here.

Furthermore, illegal immigration and legal immigration must be immediately halted to preserve what is left of American culture and for political stability.

Multi-racial and multi-ethnic nations with minorities that don’t assimilate often enter into conflicts among one another.
examples: Yugoslavia (ethnic cleansing and broke apart), Czechoslovakia (founded in 1918 and split 1933), Soviet Union (founded 1922 and split in 1991), Georgia (abkhazia and South Ossetia want independence), Cyprus (ethnic cleansing and fighting between Greeks and Turks; partitioned in 1974), Pakistan (gained independence in 1947 and ethnically different eastern section split off in 1971), lastly the Austri-Hungary which obviously split into Austria and Hungary.
These are just some examples of the instability of caused by a multi-ethnic nation where minorities refuse to assimilate to the dominant culture.

Immigration also does not economically benefit America. George Borjas revealed this in the 1990’s with his research showing that immigrations contribution to the growth of the U.S. economy was neglible. For instance in 1990 America paid out $16 billion more in welfare to immigrants than thay paid in taxes.

Immigrants achieving the American dream is also a myth with immigrants on average taking multiple generations to rise from poverty.

Immigration as a Christian imperative is also a false notion. Our neighbor is someone we meet in day to day life not some poor person in Mexico. For instance in the parable of the good Samaritan Jesus is asked who is my neighbor and Jesus uses the example of meeting the Samaritan on the roadside. The key point is that our neighbor is someone we come in contact with in our daily lives not someone halfway across the planet.

he idea that we have a universal obligation to mankind is junk from the Enlightenment that is utterly impractical. If this obligation exists we are doomed to failure because the pain of the world is too great. Therefore we must focus on the morality of everyday life, as Thomas Fleming would say, which consists of obligations to God family and community.

Lastly to those that argue that immigration is part of the American tradition that is untrue as there has never been constant immigration as there has been now with no lulls to allow for the immigrants to assimilate.

Both Jefferson and Hamilton both agreed that immigration must be tightly controlled:

Jefferson wrote “[Immigrants will bring with them the principles of the governments they leave, or if able to throw them off, it will be in exchange for an unbridled licentiousness… It would be a miracle were they to stop precisely at the point of temperate liberty.”
-*Notes on the state of Virginia

Hamilton agreed writing: " Thje opinion adavance in Notes on Virginia is completely correct" and goes on to state that “the influx of foreigners must, therefore, tend to produce a heterogeneous compound; to change and corrupt the national spirit… In the composition of a society, the harmony of the ingredients is all important, and whatever tends to a discordant intermixture must have an injurious tendancy.”
 
Not sure why this older thread was unearthed: perhaps because there were some public comments today about immigration reform.

I agree with rosetta stone and others who take issue with Fr. Groeschel. On almost all other topics, I really like him, even when he is unsettling. He makes me think. But whatever talk that I heard he did on immigration (probably wasn’t the same one), i.m.o. he was way off base. I categorize his views on this as extreme, and he was not doing so for “effect.” I’ve heard something else from him that i.m.o. was scandalizing, and surprised me coming from someone from whom we tend to expect more exemplary behavior.
 
First of all I have to agree that Fr. Groeschel is completely off base here.

Furthermore, illegal immigration and legal immigration must be immediately halted to preserve what is left of American culture and for political stability.

Multi-racial and multi-ethnic nations with minorities that don’t assimilate often enter into conflicts among one another.
examples: Yugoslavia (ethnic cleansing and broke apart), Czechoslovakia (founded in 1918 and split 1933), Soviet Union (founded 1922 and split in 1991), Georgia (abkhazia and South Ossetia want independence), Cyprus (ethnic cleansing and fighting between Greeks and Turks; partitioned in 1974), Pakistan (gained independence in 1947 and ethnically different eastern section split off in 1971), lastly the Austri-Hungary which obviously split into Austria and Hungary.
These are just some examples of the instability of caused by a multi-ethnic nation where minorities refuse to assimilate to the dominant culture.

Immigration also does not economically benefit America. George Borjas revealed this in the 1990’s with his research showing that immigrations contribution to the growth of the U.S. economy was neglible. For instance in 1990 America paid out $16 billion more in welfare to immigrants than thay paid in taxes.

Immigrants achieving the American dream is also a myth with immigrants on average taking multiple generations to rise from poverty.

Immigration as a Christian imperative is also a false notion. Our neighbor is someone we meet in day to day life not some poor person in Mexico. For instance in the parable of the good Samaritan Jesus is asked who is my neighbor and Jesus uses the example of meeting the Samaritan on the roadside. The key point is that our neighbor is someone we come in contact with in our daily lives not someone halfway across the planet.

he idea that we have a universal obligation to mankind is junk from the Enlightenment that is utterly impractical. If this obligation exists we are doomed to failure because the pain of the world is too great. Therefore we must focus on the morality of everyday life, as Thomas Fleming would say, which consists of obligations to God family and community.

Lastly to those that argue that immigration is part of the American tradition that is untrue as there has never been constant immigration as there has been now with no lulls to allow for the immigrants to assimilate.

Both Jefferson and Hamilton both agreed that immigration must be tightly controlled:

Jefferson wrote “[Immigrants will bring with them the principles of the governments they leave, or if able to throw them off, it will be in exchange for an unbridled licentiousness… It would be a miracle were they to stop precisely at the point of temperate liberty.”
-*Notes on the state of Virginia
Hamilton agreed writing: " Thje opinion adavance in Notes on Virginia is completely correct" and goes on to state that “the influx of foreigners must, therefore, tend to produce a heterogeneous compound; to change and corrupt the national spirit… In the composition of a society, the harmony of the ingredients is all important, and whatever tends to a discordant intermixture must have an injurious tendancy.”

Father Groeschel has hit the nail squarely on the head.

Employers claim blissful ignorance when they get caught hiring illegal immigrants but use them (like slaves) paying them a fraction of the minimum wage, fully aware that if they don’t accept, they can be deported back to a condition of poverty unimagined by even our own “american bred” poor.

Our “filtered” and “delicate sensibilities” are offended by Father Groeschel’s words for the simple reason that Mexican immigrants are a highly visible group. However,U.S. is one of the problem nations of the world when it comes to international human trafficking! That is to say, the selling and buying of humans for profit, sex, organ harvesting and baby selling.

We are “concerned” about how the Mexican immigrant problem affects our “american culture”…while conveniently miopic about our “culture of death”. Millions of babys aborted every year; doping our elderly and dying so that their death is"comfortable", a euphemism for euthanasia; importing illegal drugs to feed our fiendish need to stay high while exporting weapons to the drug cartels to fight their goverments efforts to fight the international drug trafficking trade.

Hamilton…Jefferson - give me a break! a very different nation back then and an unforseen kind of nation today. They could never have suspected how much candy coated deterioration our beloved nation would undergo.

In baptism we become priest, prophets and kings. That is, to renounce, denounce and announce.

Fr. Groeschel is right on track!
 
Employers claim blissful ignorance when they get caught hiring illegal immigrants but use them (like slaves) paying them a fraction of the minimum wage, fully aware that if they don’t accept, they can be deported back to a condition of poverty unimagined by even our own “american bred” poor.!
These people came here knowing exactly what they were getting into. It’s not like they were forced to come here.

When someone does something completely of free choice and free will, it’s hard to call them slaves.

Both the employers and the illegal immigrants are beaking the law. I believe that the Catechism requires us to follow the just laws of government, so both are sinning.
 
I love Fr. G., but some of his views on foreign affairs, and especially Latin America, are skewed. Somehow he’s bought into the myth that the U.S. is responsible for all of Latin America’s problems, and that all Latin Americans are therefore saintly. Ain’t so.
I certainly wouldn’t claim that Latin Americans are saintly but do you have any idea how many times the US has invaded Latin American countries and toppled their governments?
They are certainly justified in viewing the US as a bully that likes to boss around and sometimes beat up its smaller, weaker neighbors.

zompist.com/latam.html
1846 The U.S., fulfilling the doctrine of Manifest Destiny, goes to war with Mexico and ends up with a third of Mexico’s territory.
1850, 1853, 1854, 1857 U.S. interventions in Nicaragua.
1855 Tennessee adventurer William Walker and his mercenaries take over Nicaragua, institute forced labor, and legalize slavery.* “Los yankis… have burst their way like a fertilizing torrent through the barriers of barbarism.” --N.Y. Daily News He’s ousted two years later by a Central American coalition largely inspired by Cornelius Vanderbilt, whose trade Walker was infringing.“The enemies of American civilization-- for such are the enemies of slavery-- seem to be more on the alert than its friends.” --William Walker *1856 First of five U.S. interventions in Panama to protect the Atlantic-Pacific railroad from Panamanian nationalists. **
1898** U.S. declares war on Spain, blaming it for destruction of the Maine. (In 1976, a U.S. Navy commission will conclude that the explosion was probably an accident.) The war enables the U.S. to occupy Cuba, Puerto Rico, Guam, and the Philippines. **
1903** The Platt Amendment inserted into the Cuban constitution grants the U.S. the right to intervene when it sees fit. **
1903** When negotiations with Colombia break down, the U.S. sends ten warships to back a rebellion in Panama in order to acquire the land for the Panama Canal. The Frenchman Philippe Bunau-Varilla negotiates the Canal Treaty and writes Panama’s constitution. **
1904** U.S. sends customs agents to take over finances of the Dominican Republic to assure payment of its external debt. **
1905** U.S. Marines help Mexican dictator Porfirio Díaz crush a strike in Sonora. **
1905** U.S. troops land in Honduras for the first of 5 times in next 20 years.
1906 Marines occupy Cuba for two years in order to prevent a civil war. **
1907** Marines intervene in Honduras to settle a war with Nicaragua. **
1908** U.S. troops intervene in Panama for first of 4 times in next decade. **
1909** Liberal President José Santos Zelaya of Nicaragua proposes that American mining and banana companies pay taxes; he has also appropriated church lands and legalized divorce, done business with European firms, and executed two Americans for participating in a rebellion. Forced to resign through U.S. pressure. The new president, Adolfo Díaz, is the former treasurer of an American mining company. **
1910** U.S. Marines occupy Nicaragua to help support the Díaz regime. **
1911** The Liberal regime of Miguel Dávila in Honduras has irked the State Department by being too friendly with Zelaya and by getting into debt with Britain. He is overthrown by former president Manuel Bonilla, aided by American banana tycoon Sam Zemurray and American mercenary Lee Christmas, who becomes commander-in-chief of the Honduran army. **
1912** U.S. Marines intervene in Cuba to put down a rebellion of sugar workers. **
1912** Nicaragua occupied again by the U.S., to shore up the inept Díaz government. An election is called to resolve the crisis: there are 4000 eligible voters, and one candidate, Díaz. The U.S. maintains troops and advisors in the country until 1925. **
1914** U.S. bombs and then occupies Vera Cruz, in a conflict arising out of a dispute with Mexico’s new government. President Victoriano Huerta resigns. **
1915** U.S. Marines occupy Haiti to restore order, and establish a protectorate which lasts till 1934. The president of Haiti is barred from the U.S. Officers’ Club in Port-au-Prince, because he is black.* “Think of it-- niggers speaking French!” --secretary of State William Jennings Bryan, briefed on the Haitian situation *1916 Marines occupy the Dominican Republic, staying till 1924. **
1916** Pancho Villa, in the sole act of Latin American aggression against the U.S, raids the city of Columbus, New Mexico, killing 17 Americans.* “Am sure Villa’s attacks are made in Germany.” --James Gerard, U.S. ambassador to Berlin *1917 U.S. troops enter Mexico to pursue Pancho Villa. They can’t catch him. **
1917** Marines intervene again in Cuba, to guarantee sugar exports during WWI. **
1918** U.S. Marines occupy Panamanian province of Chiriqui for two years to maintain public order. **
1921** President Coolidge strongly suggests the overthrow of Guatemalan President Carlos Herrera, in the interests of United Fruit. The Guatemalans comply.
 
Fr Groeschel is no one’s fool…He works with the poor and the downtrodden…He knows that the feds knoiw these people are working with false SS numbers and they are paying into a system they will never be able to collect a penny from

He lives in Brooklyn or the Bronx…He knows how things are manipulated by business and Govt…

Thank God he has the Morale back bone to speak out on their behalf…He has seen every kind of scammer in his years doing charity work, and also those who are terribly exploited by the system

He has said that scripture has a warning for those that steal from the poor and orphans

I love Fr Groeschel, and no one on this thread is his equal in holiness, nor in the ability to understand a complex problem in the light of eternity, where souls matter more than money…heaven cries out for justice for the poor
 
Illegals come here and bankrupt the school systems and hosptials. Most refuse to learn English our official language. I don’t buy into the idea they are poor either. s a Dominos pizza driver for 16 years. I have lots of Hispanics in my delivery area. The areas they live in are univerally considered to be lower class. We have a policy of drivers carrying only 20 dollars on their person for safety sake, so we are not allowed to take a 50 dollar bill unless the order is 30 dollars or more. Well I can tell everyone here the ethnicty that by far and wide is most likely to present a 50 dollar bill for their order is Hispanics hands down. Sorry I don’t believe you are poor if you pull out a wad of 50s when paying for your order. Illegals should be rounded up and sent back, and the borders closed.
 
Illegals come here and bankrupt the school systems and hosptials. Most refuse to learn English our official language.
I don’t know about the $50 bill part, but the rest is true, particularly the first sentence. That is, in areas where they are a very large percentage of the population, both the schools and the hospitals are virtually “under-siege” by that portion of the immigrant population. The way it affects schools is that, if their population dominates, then the instruction ends up being (illegally) delivered in Spanish, which puts at risk the pre-existing Anglo population, which was often comprised of urban blacks or Asians, or rural whites, depending on the location. (In other words, the newcomers hurting not the rich, but the poorest in the poulation, whom they are supplanting.) The parents of these undocumented are themselves largely illiterate, resulting in little learning happening in the classroom, and certainly no learning of English or in English. The English-speaking or English-learning Mexicans are better assimilated, do not destroy the school systems but instead conform to it, and are generally from the middle class or near-middle class. They come here with skills or prepared to learn skills along with English, along with education in English.

I’ve taught recently in these schools & see the differences. I’ve gone on to a more elevated role in education, but I can see the pattern continuing.

It used to be until quite recently (2-3 years ago) that illegal immigrants were a net gain to the economy. They are now a net drain, because too many of them exploit the social services while not in a position in any near future to replenish those services or the income base which sustains those services.

The problems of the U.S. economy are a mixed result – one of the more positive results being that those immigrants who are not prepared to contribute near-term to our economy have made a decision to return to settings which they are more equipped to navigate, because the initial economic benefits here cannot be as guaranteed as they recently were.
 
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