Fr. Heilman: The Depth of My Anger of Decades of Effete Bishops

[Ardent_Fire]

Good question. I can only guess that because this particular situation involved his uncle, it struck a sore nerve and became personal to him. A lot of the article feels largely driven by the emotion and grief over his death and their fractured relationship.

 

[DENNYINMI]

_ I_remember the term “deep seated homosexual tendencies” being implemented in language coming from the Bishops statement on what would disqualify a candidate for the seminary after the 2002 Dallas Conference when the Bishops of the U.S. met to meet the proliferation of claims of abuse in the late 90’s and early 2000s. I’m not too sure if that language was operative before that. There were seminaries found to be very open and tolerant of homosexuals in the 80’ and 90’s and probably earlier. It is those graduates who are the bulk of the problem today.

Perhaps the "
open and tolerant" environment you speak of was simply complacent due to the fact it wasn’t new. Some of these problematic behaviors were systematically interwoven in the system itself from long ago but never spoken of.
I do not believe the problems came about after the 60’s…just perhaps not spoken of as they are today.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

My reaction is that I’m sorry Fr. Heilman had a tactless uncle and that the whole post is like Fr. Z on a bad day.
Maybe Fr. Heilman had a bad day.
I pray often that his “online celebrity” status doesn’t go to his head and that he remains a holy priest in public and in private.
The thing I find interesting/ amusing about “Roman Catholic Man” is that at least on Facebook, the majority of its followers seem to be ladies It’s all good as long as we pray.

 

[MonteRCMS]

Add to your background by reading up on Bella Dodd.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Nor do I really believe a homosexual inclination of itself is the true source of the abuse problems of the preVat2 priests. Arrested psychosexual development due to impersonal and anti-family training of very young recruits is more likely.

I agree, and also since in the pre-Vatican II era many of the aspiring priests were entering seminaries very young or otherwise being prepared to be priests (for example, by a priest or bishop who was their uncle, mentor etc), we have to ask ourselves how many of these guys were warped by having someone older sexually abuse them as a young recruit.

 

[TenEleven]

I agree, and also since in the pre-Vatican II era many of the aspiring priests were entering seminaries very young or otherwise being prepared to be priests

I agree with this and also wonder if Good Catholic Families felt a great deal of pressure to have at least one child become a priest or sister. In decades past, if you’ve got several children and you feel that you must have at least one of them become religious in order to look truly Catholic, are you going to think that it’s going to be easiest for an effeminate son to join the priesthood since he’ll never marry anyway?

One of my mother’s younger brothers went to seminary high school and then on to the seminary but didn’t last long (late 1960’s) and is now an aged self-indulgent hippy. He was never effeminate, but my grandmother was large-and-in-charge and had two religious sisters and one religious brother in her family (her siblings)…and in the back of my mind I always wonder if she felt that come hell or high water, ONE of her children was going to become a priest.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

There was definitely parental pressure in some families to make one of the sons be a priest. In “The Keepers” they describe how the main abuser, Fr. Maskell, had a mother who pushed him at the priesthood. You have to wonder what kind of resentment and anger that might cause, especially if a boy really didn’t want to be celibate but was having it forced on him.

 

[anon1212376]

I’m going to be the dissenter here. I do not see anything wrong with this article. Fr. Heilman is entirely justified in his anger IMHO. This recent scandal, as well as the general air around Catholic culture in recent years, has made me more hawkish and hardened when it comes to the integrity of the clergy and the Sacraments.

Vatican II was hijacked by our enemies, and the result has been lukewarm, wishy-washy Church mired in scandal. I acknowledge Pope Francis’ authority as Peter’s successor, but the “new springtime” he was supposed to usher in feels more like a nuclear winter. While I accept Vatican II as it is written, I pray that the “Spirit of Vatican II” is in its death throes.

 

[Brendan_64]

Doesn’t such a judgment require belief in stereotypically male and female behaviors?

But men and women are different, not just physically, but emotionally. Perhaps what seem to now be (often negatively) regarded as stereotypes are simply a reflection of typical manifestation of male and female biological and chemical makeup?

 

[Dr_Meinheimer]

I believe it has.

Read about Bella Dodd, and her acknowledgement of being a tool of the communist party whose job it was to recruit and place active homosexuals and fervent communists in seminaries (and succeeded with more 1100+). This sort of thing doesn’t just happen by bad luck. It is a calculated plan fueled by Satan. And she is but one example.

http://catholicism.org/bella-dodd-—-from-communist-to-catholic.html

 

[Jeanne_S]

My late uncle was a priest and chancellor to the Archbishop of Detroit in the mid 1960’s. He quit the priesthood shortly thereafter because he was aware of the abuse issues.His archbishop didn’t want to hear it.
So yes it was a problem even as far back as then.

 

[phil19034]

Yeah, I think I’m still processing. It was a lot to absorb.

I also just read THE most frightening piece online about abuses in seminaries and…I’m just stunned. I can’t believe this has been happening in my Church.

Buy the book “GoodBye Good Men” by Micheal Rose. It’s all about the corruption the in seminaries. But many people didn’t beleive him.

NOTE: he has two versions of the book with different sub-titles. One from a politically conservative publisher so the subtitle blames liberals, called Goodbye, Good Men: How Liberals Brought Corruption into the Catholic Church

The original version is from a small Catholic Publisher and called Goodbye! Good Men: How Catholic Seminaries Turned Away Two Generations of Vocations From the Priesthood

The books versions are basically the same, so you can purchase either. They both focus on the seminary. Very shocking, but makes a lot of sense

 

[Cyrilignatius123]

I know this priest’s writings and his very solid standing in the Church, and what he says here applies to the experience of many Catholics angered by the unsteadiness, weakness, and retreat from the Faith in many parts of the Church over the time period he speaks about. He is using tough words, but we are living in perhaps the biggest crisis in the Church’s history. Good priests are among those most hurt by the problems in the Church.

 

[angel12]

We also have to remember that back in the “old days,” a lot of people with homosexual tendencies wouldn’t/couldn’t admit it, even to themselves. So they would have made it through seminary and ordination, often without anyone having a clue.

 

[Cyrilignatius123]

No substantial change in doctrine, but yes, as you suggest, there were changes in practice. Many seminaries quietly moved away from Canonical Church teachings and openly taught ‘gay-friendly’ doctrine. Increasingly, seminarians who were faithful to Church teachings were treated as deviant and immature. Accounts from that period, ranging from Michael Rose’ “Goodbye Good Men” to testimonies of priests who survived point to these stunning developments. Part of what made this period so dangerous is that a) there was no legitimate doctrine change or authority for these changes, and b) so much of it initially developed inside the seminaries where few were looking, or even thought to look.

This is but one example, and a particularly deviant one, of a larger process that Catholic Historian James Hitchcock calls “Institutionalized Dissent.”

 

[gracepoole]

Where have you been for the last 20+ years? Keeping your eyes shut while this has been happening everywhere on Earth?

Truly if you are stunned after all that has been revealed over the last 20+ years, you are part of the problem.

Whoa, back off. I’m part of the problem because I’m horrified by abuses taking place in my church?

 

[PetraG]

I agree with this and also wonder if Good Catholic Families felt a great deal of pressure to have at least one child become a priest or sister. In decades past, if you’ve got several children and you feel that you must have at least one of them become religious in order to look truly Catholic, are you going to think that it’s going to be easiest for an effeminate son to join the priesthood since he’ll never marry anyway?

One of my mother’s younger brothers went to seminary high school and then on to the seminary but didn’t last long (late 1960’s) and is now an aged self-indulgent hippy. He was never effeminate, but my grandmother was large-and-in-charge and had two religious sisters and one religious brother in her family (her siblings)…and in the back of my mind I always wonder if she felt that come hell or high water, ONE of her children was going to become a priest.

A religious sister I know said that she first entertained the possibility of entering the convent not for the positive reason that she wanted to give her life totally to God but because she was resolved that she was NOT going to be the mother of a large family. She didn’t want to live alone, but neither was living alone something that “good Catholic” women “did” back then. This made the convent an attractive option to her.

There was a time when single employees were seen as less reliable than married employees–the married ones needed to keep a steady situation to support their families. Now, however, societal pressures to marry and have children have evaporated and the single state can last essentially forever. Businesses are less enamored of the state of being a “family man,” because this implies growing obligations in the personal sphere, rather than the worker becoming even more available than ever before for every possible opportunity to bring home income.

When the pressure to marry coming from the social and career fronts ebbs and the pressure to have a substantial number of children is gone, the sacrifice of sexually pure celibacy seems even greater in comparison.

 

[graciew]

Have we met before by any chance?
This taking the chance to rant about Vatican II sounds familiar…
Could we consider there are children involved and leave agendas and banding for another opportunity?
Thank you.

 

[Cyrilignatius123]

Possibly, we have met before. I’ve commented on some Catholic issues for many years. But yes, there is some limitation to what priests can say from the pulpit on this particular issue because of its lurid nature. Some communication will have to be reserved for bulletins, email letters and of course classes taught.

 

[gracepoole]

You’re part of the problem because you’ve been blind to what’s been obvious for decades, and it would have to be intentionally blind given how pervasive it’s been in the news.

Your ignorance is showing. Not to mention your lack of charity. I’m not a blind idiot simply because I’m stunned and horrified. If you aren’t routinely stunned and horrified by what’s being revealed, you’re the problem.

Now kindly bug off.