Fr laurent cleenewerck on ancientfaith radio

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DustinQuick

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ancientfaith.com/podcasts/aftoday/papacy_primacy_and_orthodoxy

Hey guys. I’m listening to an ancient faith podcast with fr laurent cleenewerk on orthodox primacy and papacy. It’s a really fair and balanced discussion. Sometimes I feel drawn to Orthodoxy. I’m not a fan of the anti catholic types but when I listen to balanced eccumenical types they make some great points. I’m not sure what to do. I feel like I’ve been hit with a stun gun.

He definitely agrees that the Orthodox believe in a special primacy. What’s different is its application. I listened to a talk by Dr Adam deville who actually confirms what fr cleenewerck says about the reasons for the bishop of Rome having primacy, and he ranks capital of the Empire being the foremost reason and apostolic foundation being third of three reasons ranked in significance. What shocked me is deville, a Deacon, cites pope benedict who made the case for a papacy on a diet, returning to the papacy as exercised in the first millennium in an undivided church. This is around 50 mins

youtu.be/AdNP6JgyOPg

I’ve also heard Dr William Marshner explain that Vatican 1 was disbanded because a war broke out. So Vatican 2 puts the ecclesiology of the church in a more complete perspective to in a sense capture the sense intended in Vatican 1 which was never brought to light because of the circumstances. Vatican 1 by itself seems on the face more monarchical, but lumen gentium seems more in line with orthodox ecclesiology at least from what I gather from the ancient faith podcast.

What the heck do I do? We can’t say these are anti catholic polemics. Pope benedict himself one of the greatest popes said this.

I broke down in tears to my wife after taking this all in last night. We were just received into the Catholic Church. I’m so terrified at the thought of uprooting her again and we’re having our first baby in a month.

Please pray for us.
 
DustinQuick said:
We can’t say these are anti catholic polemics. Pope benedict himself one of the greatest popes said this.
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Can you give us a timecode?

FWIW, the nature of the Pope’s Office has changed over the centuries. Currently, he is both a spiritual and political ruler (he is the monarch of Vatican City, a sovereign nation). Obviously Peter and his more immediate successors exercised no political authority. There are some who would like to see the modern Papacy divest itself of its political responsibilities and return to a spiritual-only Papacy. There’s nothing wrong with discussing these ideas. It doesn’t make the Papacy wrong, just (perhaps) overextended.

I skiped around and sampled a few minutes of content. I found nothing false or concerning. The talk was given at St. Francis University (Ft. Wayne), a Catholic college (Sisters of St. Francis of Perpetual Adoration).
 
DavidFilmer said:
Can you give us a timecode?

FWIW, the nature of the Pope’s Office has changed over the centuries. Currently, he is both a spiritual and political ruler (he is the monarch of Vatican City, a sovereign nation). Obviously Peter and his more immediate successors exercised no political authority. There are some who would like to see the modern Papacy divest itself of its political responsibilities and return to a spiritual-only Papacy. There’s nothing wrong with discussing these ideas. It doesn’t make the Papacy wrong, just (perhaps) overextended.

I skiped around and sampled a few minutes of content. I found nothing false or concerning. The talk was given at St. Francis University (Ft. Wayne), a Catholic college (Sisters of St. Francis of Perpetual Adoration).
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Brother it’s amazing how the Lord looks after me and just at the right time.

I just got off the phone with Tim Flanders. He wrote this article a while back. He’s always been committed to the eccumenical effort.

I’ve come to find that he’s entered full communion with Rome! We had a great talk and will develop a friendship as he lives pretty close to me.

What’s undeniable is the promise Christ made to Peter. What’s more complicated is how this developed and played out in history: that’s not a problem for us as the development of doctrine is a part of our theology - the acorn and oak tree.

I guess I just panicked. I do this all the time. I really pray for the day we are reunited. The division breaks my heart.
 
DustinQuick said:
I really pray for the day we are reunited. The division breaks my heart.
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You and me both.

Fortunately, salvation can be found in either Church. Both have valid Orders and seven valid Sacraments. The protestant faiths are just a shadow - they have Baptism, but can’t rescue the fallen with Confession. And they can’t do Eucharist.

It’s interesting that Tim Flanders converted. I was a convert from high-church Anglicanism (with dubious Orders). I considered myself Catholic except for the part about the Pope. And that’s the part that got me. I tried to refute the Papacy and wound up converting myself.
 
DavidFilmer said:
You and me both.

Fortunately, salvation can be found in either Church. Both have valid Orders and seven valid Sacraments. The protestant faiths are just a shadow - they have Baptism, but can’t rescue the fallen with Confession. And they can’t do Eucharist.

It’s interesting that Tim Flanders converted. I was a convert from high-church Anglicanism (with dubious Orders). I considered myself Catholic except for the part about the Pope. And that’s the part that got me. I tried to refute the Papacy and wound up converting myself.
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I would love to read your testimony!
 
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