Fr. Nicholas Gruner

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As a matter of principle I do not discuss my views of private revelations. I do so because they are not dogma and are not required to be believed in. I also do so now that I am seen as more than just a lay person and I do not wish my personal beliefs to sway others in matters that are not required.

This is why I speak out against those who wish to raise Fatima to dogma which, while you state that Fatima is a private revelation and not required, this very question from you shows that there is more to it than just being a private revelation in your eyes.
One can easily conclude that Fatima is true. After all, if one were to conclude Fatima is false, I wonder what apparition of the Blessed Virgin Mary would they possibly consider true. One (even a Priest) can also argue for its veracity based on the evidence. One can say that the message given by the Blessed Virgin and her request for the Consecration of Russia is of worldwide importance. Also, since the Church has declared it worthy of belief I see no reason why you can’t state your belief or disbelief in it. I seriously doubt anyone is going to merely take your word for it one way or the other (however, it’s your choice and I certainly wouldn’t press you on it). And I would see no scandal at all in a Priest discussing Fatima from the pulpit any more than a Priest discussing a miracle of any other Saint.

No one who has been arguing for the importance of Fatima has tried to raise it to the level of dogma or even said that one has to believe in it; quite the opposite.

Nevertheless, I would say it is a complete non-sequitur to say that (as I do) Fatima is true, but whether or not Russia is consecrated doesn’t really matter. I think the only way one can say whether or not Russia is consecrated doesn’t really matter is if they believe the apparition to be false.
 
Where and when? Do you have a source?
Yes I did, but now don’t, but it was a private meeting, and I’m sorry I didn’t save the link, if I find it, i’ll post it.

Here’s hoping, have a very blessed and Holy Christmas !
 
One can easily conclude that Fatima is true.
Yet one can conclude that it is not true and the Church would not say that they are wrong in that conclusion.
One can say that the message given by the Blessed Virgin and her request for the Consecration of Russia is of worldwide importance.
I have to disagree with this as there is no further public revelation and a private revelation can not surpass public revelation.

Here is what the Catechism has to say.

**God has said everything in his Word

65** “In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son.” Christ, the Son of God made man, is the Father’s one, perfect and unsurpassable Word. In him he has said everything; there will be no other word than this one. St. John of the Cross, among others, commented strikingly on Hebrews 1:1-2:
Code:
In giving us his Son, his only Word (for he possesses no other), he spoke everything to us at once in this sole Word - and he has no more to say. . . because what he spoke before to the prophets in parts, he has now spoken all at once by giving us the All Who is His Son. Any person questioning God or desiring some vision or revelation would be guilty not only of foolish behavior but also of offending him, by not fixing his eyes entirely upon Christ and by living with the desire for some other novelty. *St. John of the Cross, The Ascent of Mount Carmel 2,22,3-5*
**There will be no further Revelation

66** “The Christian economy, therefore, since it is the new and definitive Covenant, will never pass away; and no new public revelation is to be expected before the glorious manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ.” Yet even if Revelation is already complete, it has not been made completely explicit; it remains for Christian faith gradually to grasp its full significance over the course of the centuries.

67 Throughout the ages, there have been so-called “private” revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ’s definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the Magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church.

Christian faith cannot accept “revelations” that claim to surpass or correct the Revelation of which Christ is the fulfillment, as is the case in certain non-Christian religions and also in certain recent sects which base themselves on such “revelations”.
Also, since the Church has declared it worthy of belief I see no reason why you can’t state your belief or disbelief in it. I seriously doubt anyone is going to merely take your word for it one way or the other (however, it’s your choice and I certainly wouldn’t press you on it). And I would see no scandal at all in a Priest discussing Fatima from the pulpit any more than a Priest discussing a miracle of any other Saint.
This is your opinion and my opinion on the matter is different.
No one who has been arguing for the importance of Fatima has tried to raise it to the level of dogma or even said that one has to believe in it; quite the opposite.
I don’t know. Just reading this reply of yours you seem to be raising the importance especially when you use words such as “easily conclude … it is true” that it is of “worldwide importance”.
Nevertheless, I would say it is a complete non-sequitur to say that (as I do) Fatima is true, but whether or not Russia is consecrated doesn’t really matter. I think the only way one can say whether or not Russia is consecrated doesn’t really matter is if they believe the apparition to be false.
Here we go. It is a logical fallacy to say that Fatima is not true? Or that the consecration of Russia, which comes from a private revelation, is not important? And you say that you are not raising the belief of Fatima to as high a level as public revelation? It sure looks it to me.
 
Yet one can conclude that it is not true and the Church would not say that they are wrong in that conclusion.

I have to disagree with this as there is no further public revelation and a private revelation can not surpass public revelation.

…I don’t know. Just reading this reply of yours you seem to be raising the importance especially when you use words such as “easily conclude … it is true” that it is of “worldwide importance”.

Here we go. It is a logical fallacy to say that Fatima is not true? Or that the consecration of Russia, which comes from a private revelation, is not important? And you say that you are not raising the belief of Fatima to as high a level as public revelation? It sure looks it to me.
The conversion of Russia is of worldwide importance. The salvation of souls is of inestimable importance. To say this does not mean Fatima is “public revelation” as if Fatima is adding to the dogma of the Church. Obviously Fatima doesn’t add to public revelation, it only confirms it. However, just because something is of private revelation doesn’t make it irrelevant, or only important to Sister Lucia and Jacinta and Francisco. Again, the conversion of millions of souls because of Our Lady of Guadalupe is of worldwide and eternal importance and yet Guadalupe does not add one whit to public revelation.

I would not say it is a logical fallacy to say Fatima is not true, I would simply say that it is wrong because of the evidence. I would say the same for Lourdes or Our Lady of Guadalupe. Yet I do recognize that if someone says Fatima is false, that does not make one not a Catholic.
 
Dear Forum,

I recently found this same topic addressed in a different Catholic forum. http://forum.catholic.org/viewtopic.php?f=93&t=10460
The discussion seemed pretty solid and had many valid points. I pray it helps.

To Jesus through Mary,🙂

Edward Henry
 
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