Fr. Pavone on the use of graphic images of abortion

[seekerz]

I am reminded of when I was working a project in England. There were a series of rapes, and women (and men) were pretty voiciferous about it in the Letters to the Editor in the local papers. The police responded by telling women that pepper-spray is illegal, but suggested they use perfume spray instead.

In other words, “We know you have to do something. But we don’t want you to do anything that works!”

How charitable to suggest we don’t want you to work effectively against abortion. Then you go to another thread and complain of vicious attacks. Now, now…

 

[vern_humphrey]

How charitable to suggest we don’t want you to work effectively against abortion. Then you go to another thread and complain of vicious attacks. Now, now…

How charitable to suggest that limiting what those who work to stop abortion can use is somehow helping the cause.

As for vicious attacks – when did someone suggest those who oppose using the pictures want to blow up abortion clinics?

 

[estesbob]

And in fact there have been examples of women deciding against abortion after seeing the poster images haven’t there, e-bob?

Yes-in fact we have a women who decided against abortion AFTER seeing one of the truck billboards that have been criticized here.

 

[PLAL]

seekerz and the rest of the graphic abortion picture opponents,

I think its about time to stop all the cat fighting about he said/she said.

Bottom line is just forget about the graphic abortion pictures. There are many other Pro-Life Activities that may be more suited for your style. I gave a list of them earlier. Here they are again…

1. Get Project Gabriel started in your Parish.
2. Start a Catholic Crisis Pregnancy Center in your community.
3. Fast & Pray for the end of abortion. This is the most important!

4.Start 24-Hour Perpetual Adoration in your Parish if you don’t already have it. Sign up for at least an hour each week for Eucharistic Adoration in your Parish. Pray for the end of abortion!

1. Pray at the Abortuary nearest to you.
2. Have Abstinence-Only Education Speakers to speak at your schools (like Jason Evert, Christopher West, Fr. Thomas Loya).
3. Promote and Vote for Pro-Life Candidates.
4. Start a Youth For Life Group.
5. If you have a large family, go to the park with all the kids & have fun with them. Others will witness the value of being open to life.

These are a few of the many things you can do to help the Pro-Life Movement! There are many others. I just listed a few.

If you are not already involved in Pro-Life, then your already half dead.

 

[iamrefreshed]

seekerz and the rest of the graphic abortion picture opponents,

I think its about time to stop all the cat fighting about he said/she said.

Bottom line is just forget about the graphic abortion pictures. There are many other Pro-Life Activities that may be more suited for your style. I gave a list of them earlier. Here they are again…

1. Get Project Gabriel started in your Parish.
2. Start a Catholic Crisis Pregnancy Center in your community.
3. Fast & Pray for the end of abortion. This is the most important!

4.Start 24-Hour Perpetual Adoration in your Parish if you don’t already have it. Sign up for at least an hour each week for Eucharistic Adoration in your Parish. Pray for the end of abortion!

1. Pray at the Abortuary nearest to you.
2. Have Abstinence-Only Education Speakers to speak at your schools (like Jason Evert, Christopher West, Fr. Thomas Loya).
3. Promote and Vote for Pro-Life Candidates.
4. Start a Youth For Life Group.
5. If you have a large family, go to the park with all the kids & have fun with them. Others will witness the value of being open to life.

These are a few of the many things you can do to help the Pro-Life Movement! There are many others. I just listed a few.

If you are not already involved in Pro-Life, then your already half dead.

I guess the rub for a lot of us here are the numerous insinuations that, because we want discriminate use of the photos, we are somehow not as dedicated to the cause as those who use them at will.

This post just seems like another example of that.

How would you feel if you were called pro-choice?

 

[vern_humphrey]

I guess the rub for a lot of us here are the numerous insinuations that, because we want discriminate use of the photos, we are somehow not as dedicated to the cause as those who use them at will.

This post just seems like another example of that.

How would you feel if you were called pro-choice?

How would you feel if someone posted this to you?

Out of interest, are you the type that blows up clinics to prevent abortions? Do you consider that to be an acceptable way to save babies? That would save babies but have harmful consequences. I am curious - would you go that far?

Or this?

Do you know what Vern? You are not worth the words. I am pulling out. I am sick of your extremism. You are not any better than a pro-choicer - just different in your approach! BTW you aren now on ignore and there to stay! Good riddance!

Or this?

Once again, you are forcing me to have a conversation with my four year old about something that she does not have the experience or knowledge to comprehend.

“Why did the mommy not want her baby?”

“Because she was gang-raped, honey.”

“What’s gang-rape?”

So, you see, abortion is that act that you are portraying, but I am left with trying to explain all the actions that preceed the abortion.

Unless you want to make it easy for me and post gang-rape pictures.

How do you justify this kind of venom against people who are working to end abortion?

 

[estesbob]

I guess the rub for a lot of us here are the numerous insinuations that, because we want discriminate use of the photos, we are somehow not as dedicated to the cause as those who use them at will.

This post just seems like another example of that.

How would you feel if you were called pro-choice?

I would reflect on the fact that perhaps ones constant criticism of those on the front lines of this battle would lead one to beleive that.

 

[estesbob]

How would you feel if someone posted this to you?

Or this?

Or this?

**How do you justify this kind of venom against people who are working to end abortion?/**quote]

Or this insinuation by Sprout the we are in it only for our egos:

To them it’s ALL about their works.

 

[seekerz]

seekerz and the rest of the graphic abortion picture opponents,
*
I think its about time to stop all the cat fighting about he said/she said*.

My mother used to say: “It takes two to quarrel” but I guess she didn’t know anything…See how I turned out, accused of partaking in a ‘fight’ with only one side and on the internet of all places!

Since we’re pointing fingers, point me to the post/s where I attacked someone so I may apologize if indicated.

 

[vern_humphrey]

My mother used to say: “It takes two to quarrel” but I guess she didn’t know anything…See how I turned out, accused of partaking a ‘fight’ with only one side and on the internet of all places!

Perhaps had you not come to attack others, a much more civil discourse would have taken place.

Remember, there is no thread attacking those who oppose the use of these pictures. But there are three threads attacking those who do.

 

[seekerz]

Remember, there is no thread attacking those who oppose the use of these pictures. But there are three threads attacking those who do.

Did you really type that with a straight face, Vern? How about these posts:

seekerz, honey, are you really this dense or are you just arguing for arguing’s sake?

You are talking out both sides of your mouth at one time. If you were not questioning Fr. Pavone’s integrity there was absolutely no reason for you to post it and put the thought into anyone’s mind. Then you have the gall to repeat it and further define it. Shame on you.

I will shout even louder if this particular part of this thread doesn’t STOP in a real hurry.

The above was in response to someone describing Fr Pavone’s experience as anecdotal. No apology followed, despite a detailed explanation of the use of the word anecdotal in statistics

Come on people stop being so selfish! This is such a rediculous argument that it isn’t almost worth justifying. I look forward to the day you tell your grandchildren when they ask you what you did to end abortion and you have to tell them nothing in shame. History has already given you folks a label, its called apathetic bystander. You were the whites during Civil Rights who did nothing but hide in your homes, you were men during the abolition movement who did not speak against the oppressive males in society, you were the people during the holocaust who stood by and watched the Nazi’s execute Jews and others in the street, and today you are the pro-feelings people who care more to spend your energy on sheilding born children from photos of unborn children who are killed by born people for selfish reasons. History will not be kind to you and I can only guess to what God will say if you ever face Him.

Frankly as I’ve stated before it can’t be more clear that you aren’t someone who is prolife, you are either an abortion advocate or you are profeelings.

People like you are the reason we failed as an established prolife movement in this country for 35 years and are going to be held somewhat responsible in history for this atrocity

People like yourself will make ANY excuse to try and keep abortion from ending, you just happen to chose feelings today.

 

[iamrefreshed]

I would reflect on the fact that perhaps ones constant criticism of those on the front lines of this battle would lead one to beleive that.

Perhaps I would if I even once critized those who chose to show the photos.

However, all I did was offer my opinion as requested by the original post.

I don’t understand your post. You state “those on the front lines”…Are you implying I am not?

 

[estesbob]

Perhaps I would if I even once critized those who chose to show the photos.

However, all I did was offer my opinion as requested by the original post.

I don’t understand your post. You state “those on the front lines”…Are you implying I am not?

I consider sidewalk counselors on the front lines. I work in a CPC-My job is to keep women from ever seeing a sidewalk counselor but barring that they are the last thing standing between that womens child and a gruesome death.

I never show graphic pictures when counseling but I do not object to those who do and most certainly dont think we should ban public display lest a child see them. Vern if right-there are three threads going pupportedly attacking graphic pictures but it seems those working to stop this evil are bing attacked just as much.

I cant keep track of who said what in this thread but I dont recall you attacking anyone.

 

[iamrefreshed]

How would you feel if someone posted this to you?

Or this?

Or this?

How do you justify this kind of venom against people who are working to end abortion?

I wouldn’t feel good about any of it Vern and I would never justify it. Why would you lump me on their side? Because I don’t like the photos?

Are you using that as justification for something? Is that your answer to OK people implying I am por-choice because I don’t like the indescriminate use of the photos?

I am on your side, maybe more than you think.

 

[iamrefreshed]

I consider sidewalk counselors on the front lines. I work in a CPC-My job is to keep women from ever seeing a sidewalk counselor but barring that they are the last thing standing between that womens child and a gruesome death.

I never show graphic pictures when counseling but I do not object to those who do and most certainly dont think we should ban public display lest a child see them. Vern if right-there are three threads going pupportedly attacking graphic pictures but it seems those working to stop this evil are bing attacked just as much.

I cant keep track of who said what in this thread but I dont recall you attacking anyone.

I’ve attacked no one Bob. I admire the work many do. We all do different work. Especially those on the “front-line”. What really hurts is for someone to imply I am pro-choice because of my opinion on the use of the photos… I could be nothing further. I happen to disagree with the indiscriminate use of the photos. I’ve not lobbied for their cesation. I’ve only offered my opinion here. If we went to battle in the courts I would side with you. I think most here would.

I’ve also been in the military and I know the “front-line” needs a lot of support. I also know we all contribute as we can.

All I’m asking is for someone to not call me pro-choice because I don’t like the photos. I think that is the issue with most of the posters.

I am not attacking the right to use them, You have that right.

 

[estesbob]

I’ve attacked no one Bob. I admire the work many do. We all do different work. Especially those on the “front-line”. What really hurts is for someone to imply I am pro-choice because of my opinion on the use of the photos… I could be nothing further. I happen to disagree with the indiscriminate use of the photos. I’ve not lobbied for their cesation. I’ve only offered my opinion here. If we went to battle in the courts I would side with you. I think most here would.

I’ve also been in the military and I know the “front-line” needs a lot of support. I also know we all contribute as we can.

All I’m asking is for someone to not call me pro-choice because I don’t like the photos. I think that is the issue with most of the posters.

I am not attacking the right to use them, You have that right.

Fair enough! And thank you for your service to our country

 

[PLAL]

I guess the rub for a lot of us here are the numerous insinuations that, because we want discriminate use of the photos, we are somehow not as dedicated to the cause as those who use them at will.

This post just seems like another example of that.

How would you feel if you were called pro-choice?

I have never called anyone “Pro-Choice” on this thread. I have already made all my points which need to be made. I have offered alternatives for both sides to come together – but it seems those against the use of graphic pictures just want to create a division among the Pro-Life Community.

It is the devil who causes division. I think everything has been debated on whether or not to use graphic pictures of abortion – so just let it be.

I would rather like to hear what Pro-Life Activities everyone is involved with and keep it a positive discussion.

That’s it for me on this thread. See you later!

 

[seekerz]

it seems those against the use of graphic pictures just want to create a division among the Pro-Life Community.

It is the devil who causes division.

One Christian to another, I love you PLAL and I firmly resolve to turn the other cheek.

 

[boppaid]

btw, it is not necessary to quote the entire post of someone to reply to only one point. Doing so makes it really difficult for others to follow the thread. I have asked you numerous times to go to the technical help forum and ask the experts there how to use the quote tags.

Actually, in all fairness, I think that boils down to personal preference. I quite like when people quote the post, so I can remember the parts taken out as they were written in context. I have been considering doing that myself, rather than going point by point which can be tedious to read, and more importantly, easier to misinterpret something as the entire context is not right there in the response.

Not that doing it as you do is incorrect, Ani. Just that it boils down to preference.

 

[boppaid]

As for vicious attacks – when did someone suggest those who oppose using the pictures want to blow up abortion clinics?

I don’t think anyone. But it has been suggested that people who oppose indiscriminantly using pictures are not pro life.