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mapleoak
Guest
Could you please rephrase this somehow so it makes sense? That is probably the longest sentence I have ever seen.
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Beebs
Guest
I believe it depends on your audience and the setting.
When my Knights of Columbus council marches in our local Columbus Day Parade (very family oriented) we only use positive messages i.e. the Chose Life signs.
When holding a prayer service outside an abortion clinic, sorry but the more graphic images have to come out.
People should know the truth of what is really going on inside.
When my Knights of Columbus council marches in our local Columbus Day Parade (very family oriented) we only use positive messages i.e. the Chose Life signs.
When holding a prayer service outside an abortion clinic, sorry but the more graphic images have to come out.
People should know the truth of what is really going on inside.
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whatevergirl
Guest
True. I’m not for or against these pics…I would suspect that they don’t deter abortions…I think what deters abortions, is if the right collateral were to be handed to the young women seeking abortions. But, there’s only a positive spin placed on abortion…they should be given the negative ‘side effects’ if you will, like a consumer is given if overdosing on aspirin, for example. The side effects of an abortion are far worse than taking an extra aspirin here and there…from possible physical ramifications, to emotional guilt that can last a lifetime–this ‘beforehand’ information would probably prevent more abortions, than a random pic on a highway. Just my take.
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mapleoak
Guest
A lot of the defense against the display of graphic signs seems to revolve around the premise that people are upset by them. The whole idea behind them is to make the public, much of which is ignorant of the actual horror taking place, aware of the awful truth. If lives are saved as a result, it is well worth the upset and discomfort caused. I would say if even only one life were spared it would be worth it. If if convinces mothers to rethink and spare their child’s life, it is worth it. If it shocks people to see the grim reality, they may be inspired to do something about it if they want it to go away. This means taking steps to end these heinous acts, not to cover them up, shut them out of mind, and pretend it is not happening. The weak argument about crying children who see these signs and are damaged for life is nothing, but a diversion.
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defenderoftruth
Guest
I totally think pictures work. My friends and I go to an abortion clinic with dead baby pictures so the women going in can be educated that it is a baby. Center for Bioethical Reform has some really tragic photos taken of babies in the first, second and third trimester, that a person can purchase for abortion clinic protesting.
My take is this (this is what I tell people at the Genocide Awarenes Project at colleges we go to). We teach children how to read with pictures and then they grow up to use words mostly. Unfortunately we have to revert back to pictures when it comes to abortion because for so long people have believed the lie that “it’s just a blob of tissue”, these pictures show the FACT it was once a baby. We had people just laugh and shake their head when they see the text signs “abortion kills babies” etc. They don’t laugh anymore when they see the babies they get mad and cuss and flip us off. Why? It’s the choice they support. They can no longer deny the humanity of the baby. They have to deal with the hard reality that only a monster could look at these photos and think abortion is ok. And in an essence that is what the photos do, “if this is what you approve of, you are a monster” and they don’t like that feeling so they flip out and get mad.
My take is this (this is what I tell people at the Genocide Awarenes Project at colleges we go to). We teach children how to read with pictures and then they grow up to use words mostly. Unfortunately we have to revert back to pictures when it comes to abortion because for so long people have believed the lie that “it’s just a blob of tissue”, these pictures show the FACT it was once a baby. We had people just laugh and shake their head when they see the text signs “abortion kills babies” etc. They don’t laugh anymore when they see the babies they get mad and cuss and flip us off. Why? It’s the choice they support. They can no longer deny the humanity of the baby. They have to deal with the hard reality that only a monster could look at these photos and think abortion is ok. And in an essence that is what the photos do, “if this is what you approve of, you are a monster” and they don’t like that feeling so they flip out and get mad.
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whatevergirl
Guest
Good points. I don’t look at people who choose abortion as ‘monsters,’ though…they are often misguided, and have strayed from God and what He wants for their lives. But, you make some fresh points…interesting topic.
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defenderoftruth
Guest
I forgot to say this. We’ve had people look at the signs and not go into the clinic, and people that have come out after a preliminary appt. and not come back but kept their baby.
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Ani_Ibi
Guest
What would you call
45 000 000
and counting
if not indundation?
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defenderoftruth
Guest
Our friend has a bumper sticker that says “abortion is happening at the permission of the church” (he’s evangelical). Why? Because most churches (the catholic church not really included) don’t do anything about it except say from the pulpit (if that) that it’s wrong and hide in their houses with an absentee ballot. They won’t set foot out on the street with a text sign even. My husband and I got kicked out of a church, one of the major reasons (the other was OSAS) is we went to abortion clinics and used text signs (we didn’t use the dead babies then). The minister said, “I’m not called to that type of ministry”. WHAT A COWARD! He would then mock us and chastize us for trying to get other people in the church to join us. Since when does someone need to be “called” to stand outside a clinic and try to talk women out of not killing their kid!!! We know some people that go to their own church and hold signs so the people will be outraged enough to help the cause but NOOOOOO they called the cops twice instead. This is the modern day “christianity”. It makes me mad. I thank God for Father Pavone and priests for life and the Catholic Church for standing up loudly against abortion. Everyone else just stands and preaches to the choir and chastizes those that actually do something!
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KarenNC
Guest
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KarenNC
Guest
Oh, I could do much longer
It’s neither okay nor appropriate nor acceptable to expose young children to everything under the sun just because it doesn’t kill all of them or damage all of them in ways that you can see immediately and physically.
You are not the parent of all children. You do not have any inherent right to base a decision on what is and is not appropriate for another person’s child solely on whether it helps you meet your goals.
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KarenNC
Guest
Exactly. I don’t know the location of the clinic in your town, but I am guessing that it is not somehow secret or next to a playground or daycare center. A location parents would be likely to know is somewhere that abortion protesters might reasonably be expected to be found and might be expected to possibly have graphic signs.
It would seem that one could reasonably assume that there would be a sizable number of young children at the parade and that parents would not reasonably expect graphic signs at this event. It would also seem reasonable there would not be small children at the clinic without their parents’ knowing they were there and that parents who wished to avoid exposing their children to the signs could reasonably avoid that area.
You recognize that not everything is always appropriate for every setting or every audience. You show the ability to respond to changing conditions. This is a good thing.
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KarenNC
Guest
I fully agree that anyone who is old enough to be considering sexual intercourse is old enough to be informed of all the possible consequences of such, including the potential long term physical and emotional consequences of choosing an abortion. This is what I see as part of comprehensive and responsible sex education.
Would seem to me that the best way, honestly, to deter abortions is to work to prevent unintended and unwanted pregnancies in the first place as well as encouraging sexual activity only within the confines of a committed relationship between two adults who are emotionally and financially ready to accept the possible consequences of their decision to have sexual relations.
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KarenNC
Guest
Context?
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whatevergirl
Guest
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defenderoftruth
Guest
What would you think about a synagogue/school right across the street from an abortion clinic? Does the children getting possibly traumatized outweigh the good the dead baby pictures could have on the moms that are going to commit homicide?
This is the exact location we have to deal with. We choose the signs; if the synagogue wants to be next to Auchwitz and do nothing they’ll see the fruit of it.
Remeber Hitler killed 6million? Since Roe v. Wade we’ve had 45+million dead babies. We show pictures of the holocaust and black lynchings during the slave days, dead native americans by the US Army back in the 1800’s to our youth in history class yet these are inappropriate?
This is the exact location we have to deal with. We choose the signs; if the synagogue wants to be next to Auchwitz and do nothing they’ll see the fruit of it.
Remeber Hitler killed 6million? Since Roe v. Wade we’ve had 45+million dead babies. We show pictures of the holocaust and black lynchings during the slave days, dead native americans by the US Army back in the 1800’s to our youth in history class yet these are inappropriate?
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whatevergirl
Guest
But, pre schoolers are not taught about The Holocaust…they aren’t shown such images in class. (at least I hope not?)
There’s an age for everything. I think when a child isn’t equipped to deal with what the images project, it can be detrimental to learning, frankly. Your point is well taken, but I think one of the posters here is mainly talking about younger children.
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KarenNC
Guest
Ideally, yes, for the purposes of intentional childrearing, I believe children are better served when their parents are legally as well as emotionally committed to each other.(you do mean marriage right?)
Do I believe that two consenting adults should be required to only have a sexual relationship within the confines of legal marriage? No. I do believe, however, that they should not be engaging in a sexual relationship if they are not both committed to each other in a monogamous relationship and fully prepared to shoulder the responsibilities that come with all the potential consequences of such a relationship. I do not believe that sex is or should be a casual thing.
I fully recognize that this is not the teaching of the Catholic Church on the subject, but then, that would be one of the myriad reasons I’m not Catholic, as has been pointed out before.
But my views on appropriate sexual relationships between adults really has nothing to do with whether I believe it is appropriate to show graphic photographs of mutilated babies to preschoolers without their parents’ permission.
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KarenNC
Guest
Considered the possibility that the synagogue a) did not choose or advocate for the placement of the abortion clinic and may have predated it and b) may indeed be actively doing a heck of a lot but choosing to do so in a different way than you are? Have you ever bothered to ask? Be wary of judging others based only on what you can see of them and whether they are visibly acting in exactly the manner you are when you are.
Is it a preschool or a high school? Are you out there with the signs pointing them toward the school windows or playground when the elementary kids and younger are outside? Are you out there along the streets holding the photos toward the street when parents are bringing their young kids to school or picking them up? Are you out there holding the signs toward the street when families are coming to religious services (would help to make sure you are aware of when the various services are held) or kids are coming to Hebrew School on Sunday (though I’m not sure of the age when kids start Hebrew School)? If so, then yes, I believe you are behaving inappropriately.
Are you doing your best to place yourselves so that the photos are visible from the entrance to the clinic but shielding the synagogue and school as much as is possible? Are you being particularly mindful of times when large numbers of young children are likely to be passing by and doing everything you can to not impose the pictures on them, perhaps even having alternate signs for those times without the graphic images, perhaps ones with photos of live developing babies rather than mutilated corpses? If so, then it would seem that you are making reasonable efforts to express your views in a way that respects the innocence of those children and the rights of their parents to discuss the issue of abortion in their own way, but still gets your message to its intended audience.
Yes, we show pictures of the Holocaust and black lynchings (which shamefully extended much past the end of slavery) and dead Native Americans (which also shamefully extended well into modern times). We don’t show them to preschoolers in general, though individual parents may certainly choose to do so if they deem it appropriate. These pictures, as well as the pictures you are using, have a place in the discussion and in the educational process, but it is not at the preschool level unless it is with the permission of the child’s parents.
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Paulineo
Guest
Yes, it is a good idea to post these pictures.
The women who have abortions have to live with what they have done forever. They suffer.
They are lied to, and at a time when they are so vulnerable, they want to believe that the child within them is not really a child. But, in their hearts, they know it is.
America must see abortion, if it is to end.
The women who have abortions have to live with what they have done forever. They suffer.
They are lied to, and at a time when they are so vulnerable, they want to believe that the child within them is not really a child. But, in their hearts, they know it is.
America must see abortion, if it is to end.
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