Fr. Pavone on the use of graphic images of abortion

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Planned Parenthood does actually provide services to women & families and are not only in the business of abortion, nor are they the only abortion providers.

The woman I referred to several posts ago whom I took into my home during her pregnancy went to a Planned Parenthood clinic for her prenatal, post natal, and pediatric care.

They also provide all kinds of obstetrics & gynecology care i.e. testing and treatment for STD’s. You never know when a woman is walking into a PP clinic whether she’s going there for her annual Pap, an STD, an infection, prenatal care, birth control, or abortion.

The world is not black & white. All Bad vs. All Good. The bad guys don’t wear black hats and the good guys wear white hats. We have to “discriminate” (there’s that word again) between bad or immoral “acts” and bad or immoral persons and it’s hardly ever 100% one way or the other with persons other than the Divine.
 
The world is not black & white. All Bad vs. All Good. The bad guys don’t wear black hats and the good guys wear white hats. We have to “discriminate” (there’s that word again) between bad or immoral “acts” and bad or immoral persons and it’s hardly ever 100% one way or the other with persons other than the Divine.
Couldn’t have said it better if I’d tried!

Christians lose credibility on any issue when we lose sight of these facts in our discussions with the secular crowd.
 
You said “In fact, these two organizations have the money to ensure that pro-abortion candidates are elected. Planned Parenthood has infiltrated every institution in our society.”

I asked that if it was indeed the case that they “have the money to ensure that pro abortion candidates are elected” I would like your explanation for why they have “allowed” any pro-life candidates to be elected at all.
Never said they were diverting funds.
I said implied, as in insinuated. As in "taking in millions of tax dollars *meant for *mammograms and women’s health (ha!) "
Planned Parenthood is not in the business of free of low cost health care. Planned Parenthood is in the business of taking our tax dollars along with the income generated from the abortions it does and laughing all the way to the bank.
How much income, exactly, are they generating from abortions and what is your basis for the information?
And you see no problem with an organization whose funds come from taxpayer dollars and abortions making the profit that they do?
They receive 34% of their income from government grants. Do you have figures on the percentage of income they receive from Medicaid and what is the source for that information?

Have you looked at the “excess revenue” (otherwise known as profit) generated by your local not for profit hospital, which also likely receives government funding and also likely performs abortions? Ours made $135 million over a 9 month period in 2005. Like other not-for-profits, they put it back into the hospital.
I fail to see a point here except a reiteration of statistics I already provided. The point I made about these is that PP targets areas that are primarily black and poor. Margaret Sanger eugenics at work.
Margaret Sanger eugenics? Couldn’t be because those are areas that need health care and which do not attract for-profit groups?
 
Couldn’t have said it better if I’d tried!

Christians lose credibility on any issue when we lose sight of these facts in our discussions with the secular crowd.
Everyone loses credibility when they lose sight of the facts. Doesn’t matter whether they are dealing with Christian or secular or other religious folks.
 
not sure who posted this:
If that is the case, can you explain why there are any politicians that you categorize as prolife? Do you have numbers on the percentage of pro-life candidates vs. actual pro-“choice of abortion at all times under all circumstances” vs. those who may fall somewhere along that continuum?
In Canada, Campaign Life Coalition tracks the records of politicians on life issues on an ongoing basis, not just during elections. This time around we have a new party whose platform is the non-negotiables. They are not running candidates in all the ridings yet though.

Previous to this new party there was a party running on Biblical teachings. They don’t run candidates in all ridings either.

A couple of years ago I was talking to Jim Hughes of CLC outside the Cathedral. I gave him a status report from the ‘trenches’ as it were and said that I thought the only way we could go forward is by having our own party. He disagreed! He thought he could make gains by negotiating with the existing parties.

Well that hasn’t worked. Catholics number 65% of this population and our ****** politicians still yank us around! My feeling is that pro-life is too turfy north of 49.
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Philothea:
Planned Parenthood is not in the business of free of low cost health care. Planned Parenthood is in the business of taking our tax dollars along with the income generated from the abortions it does and laughing all the way to the bank.
Planned Parenthood is the progeny of the Birth Control Movement started by Margaret Sanger back in the day to reduce the numbers of African Americans in the US.
Although black women constitute only 6% of the population, they comprise 36% of the abortion industry’s clientele. The leading abortion providers have chosen to exploit blacks by locating 94% of their abortuaries in urban neighborhoods with high black populations. link
“Several years ago, when 17,000 aborted babies were found in a dumpster outside a pathology laboratory in Los, Angeles, California, some 12-15,000 were observed to be black”…

Michael Novak had calculated “Since the number of current living Blacks (in the U.S.) is 31 million, the missing 10 million represents an enormous loss, for without abortion, America’s Black community would now number 41 million persons”…

A highly significant 1993 Howard University study showed that African American women over age 50 were 4.7 times more likely to get breast cancer if they had had any abortions compared to women who had not had any abortions… link
BREAST CANCER: THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM!

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Philothea:
And you see no problem with an organization whose funds come from taxpayer dollars and abortions making the profit that they do?
If we can’t vote with our ballots, then we have to vote with our dollars. It is critical to know if organizations are contributing to Planned Parenthood. If they are, then it is critical that we do not spend money on those organizations. More than that, we need to loudly protest. Imagine how effective those big posters would be parked outside a hulking skyscraper?
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Philothea:
The point I made about these is that PP targets areas that are primarily black and poor. Margaret Sanger eugenics at work.
Absolutely! 😦
 
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sprout:
The world is not black & white.
But abortion is. For the unborn, it is life or death. No inbetween. Make no mistake about this.
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sprout:
All Bad vs. All Good.
For Catholics, abortion is a mortal sin. Remote material collaboration with abortion is a mortal sin. There is no inbetween.
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sprout:
The bad guys don’t wear black hats and the good guys wear white hats. We have to “discriminate” (there’s that word again) between bad or immoral “acts” and bad or immoral persons and it’s hardly ever 100% one way or the other with persons other than the Divine.
Excuse me, but we are discriminating between immoral acts and immoral persons. After all is said and done, it is the Catholic Church Who picks up the pieces when women who have had abortions start crashing and burning afterwards. It is not the hissing politically correct crowd.
 
Excuse me, but we are discriminating between immoral acts and immoral persons. After all is said and done, it is the Catholic Church Who picks up the pieces when women who have had abortions start crashing and burning afterwards. It is not the hissing politically correct crowd.
? Are you saying that most or all of the women getting abortions are Catholic? Or that there exist no non-Catholic prolife groups, counselors for women who have had abortions, etc?
 
? Are you saying that most or all of the women getting abortions are Catholic? Or that there exist no non-Catholic prolife groups, counselors for women who have had abortions, etc?
The Catholic Church is one of the very few orgnizations that offers help for women from suffering from Post Abortion Trama. The point being that the so called pro-choice orgainzations support women in only one of the 4 options available to a pregnant women(although PP refers a miniscule number of wemn to adoption aganicies.)

I am sure you will immediately hijack the thread by wanting to know the definition of “miniscule” and cut n pasting huge document dumps disputing every line of my post-I post the information not for you but others reading this thread

I am a trained conselor for post abortive men and if anyone would like information on help for post abortive women or men please PM me…
 
Planned Parenthood is the progeny of the Birth Control Movement started by Margaret Sanger back in the day to reduce the numbers of African Americans in the US.
Evidence that Planned Parenthood was started to “reduce the numbers of African Americans in the US” please.
Although black women constitute only 6% of the population, they comprise 36% of the abortion industry’s clientele. The leading abortion providers have chosen to exploit blacks by locating 94% of their abortuaries in urban neighborhoods with high black populations.
Let’s see, women constitute only 50.7% of the US population, but they receive 100% of the abortions as well. You would do better to compare the percentage of black women of an age to have an abortion who choose to do so with numbers of women of the same age of differing ethnicities who choose to do so.

The site you linked actually stated: “Minority women constitute only about 13% of the female population (age 15-44) in the United States, but they underwent approximately 36% of the abortions.”
Note that this says “minority women” not only “black or African American women.”
blackgenocide.org/black.html

The numbers and choice of location of Planned Parenthood health clinics and their placement in urban areas with high black populations wouldn’t have anything to do, of course, with the fact that 88% of African Americans live in urban areas or that they are also 3 times as likely as whites to live in poverty? That such populations are less likely to have adequate access to reproductive (or indeed, any) health care? Or that black women are known to be more at risk for certain reproductive problems? Or the disparity in numbers that women living in poverty are over four times as likely to seek an abortion as those who do not live in poverty?

encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761587467/African_Americans.html

Almost 88 percent of African Americans lived in metropolitan areas in 2000. With over 2 million African American residents, New York City had the largest black urban population in the United States in 2000. Washington, D.C., had the highest proportion of black residents of any U.S. city in 2000, with African Americans making up almost 60 percent of the population.

Approximately one-fourth of the African American population lives in poverty, a rate three times that of white Americans. In 2000, 19.1 percent of black population lived below poverty level as compared to 6.9 percent of white population.

jiwh.org/attachments/Health%20Disparities%20Overview%2Epdf
Women of color make up a growing proportion of all women in the United States and are expected to comprise almost half of U.S. women by 2050. Unfortunately, they bear a disproportionate burden of disease and mortality. Some of the demographic factors that contribute to poorer health status and increased mortality among women of color are less education and higher rates of poverty. A greater proportion of women of color lack health
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insurance coverage, which results in limited access to health services, including preventive health services and counseling.

guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html

The abortion rate among women living below the federal poverty level ($9,570 for a single woman with no children) is more than four times that of women above 300% of the poverty level (44 vs. 10 abortions per 1,000 women).[11]*
BREAST CANCER: THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM!
cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Risk/abortion-miscarriage

“In February 2003, the National Cancer Institute (NCI) convened a workshop of over 100 of the world’s leading experts who study pregnancy and breast cancer risk. Workshop participants reviewed existing population-based, clinical, and animal studies on the relationship between pregnancy and breast cancer risk, including studies of induced and spontaneous abortions. They concluded that having an abortion or miscarriage does not increase a woman’s subsequent risk of developing breast cancer. A summary of their findings, titled Summary Report: Early Reproductive Events and Breast Cancer Workshop, can be found at cancer.gov/cancerinfo/ere-workshop-report .”
 
The Catholic Church is one of the very few orgnizations that offers help for women from suffering from Post Abortion Trama. The point being that the so called pro-choice orgainzations support women in only one of the 4 options available to a pregnant women(although PP refers a miniscule number of wemn to adoption aganicies.)

I am sure you will immediately hijack the thread by wanting to know the definition of “miniscule” and cut n pasting huge document dumps disputing every line of my post-I post the information not for you but others reading this thread

I am a trained conselor for post abortive men and if anyone would like information on help for post abortive women or men please PM me…
Great, glad you do that. I was questioning the statement that it was only the Catholic Church who had any interest in assisting folks who have had an abortion. The statement is not true.

afterabortion.info/resourc.html

You might find pittsburghcitypaper.ws/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A33601 interesting.

In what way is it “hijacking” a thread to challenge incorrect statements made in support of arguments and provide more accurate information?

Now the question of exactly what post abortion counseling, breast cancer, etc has to do with whether or not it is inappropriate to show graphic images of mutilated babies in areas where you know children ages 2-7 will see them or whether that is the only effective method to educate people on the reality of abortion does, admittedly, escape me.
 
In what way is it “hijacking” a thread to challenge incorrect statements made in support of arguments and provide more accurate information?.
You know, Karen, how all those pesky facts and statistics can get in the way!
 
There are soo many posts here where we are all trying to defend our decisions, our ways to fight for the unborn and, sadly, our pride.

We are all on the same side here with some differences of opinion on methods. Can we put that behind us and get on with our works?

I have adoration on Sunday after Mass. I will spend my adoration time praying for the unborn and their fathers and mothers. Can we all put away our differences for a short while and pray for those who most need it?
 
There are soo many posts here where we are all trying to defend our decisions, our ways to fight for the unborn and, sadly, our pride.

We are all on the same side here with some differences of opinion on methods. Can we put that behind us and get on with our works?

I have adoration on Sunday after Mass. I will spend my adoration time praying for the unborn and their fathers and mothers. Can we all put away our differences for a short while and pray for those who most need it?
There were three different threads on this subject going at one time. On each I have pushed the idea that the proper approach to this, for those who disagree with using the pictures is to say, “Well, I don’t use them. But to each his own.”

Why don’t we save our indignation for those who made the pictures possible, those who killed the children in the pictures?
 
There were three different threads on this subject going at one time. On each I have pushed the idea that the proper approach to this, for those who disagree with using the pictures is to say, “Well, I don’t use them. But to each his own.”

Why don’t we save our indignation for those who made the pictures possible, those who killed the children in the pictures?
In my case, pretty much for the same reasons you can’t say," well, I don’t plan to have an abortion, but to each her own." Because I can’t stand by and see what I believe, based on personal experience and studies on the use of other graphic images of violence, are young children being harmed needlessly by the actions of adults, however well-meaning or good their ultimate goal, and not say anything about it.
 
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sprout:
…In no way does giving out info on the ways that PP provides legitimate care for women in any way shape or form constitute “material cooperation”.
I didn’t say that it did. You are saying that I said that it did. That is a strawman. What I was talking about was being careful to note the companies who contribute to Planned Parenthood and similar enterprises. And to vote with our pocketbooks. I am really puzzled. What part of that was not clear?

:confused:
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sprout:
You seem to be taking things WAY OUT OF CONTEXT and ascribing some meaning or intent that JUST ISN’T THERE! Please stop!
You are stonewalling what I said to make your own point. There is nothing I have done which needs stopping. Unless of course you would like me to stop offering my point of view.
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sprout:
Really? that’s good, glad to hear you feel you are discriminating between immoral acts an immoral persons. Can you give me an example of this?
Sure. An immoral act is an act which is immoral. An immoral person: well, I am at a loss as to how those are defined. I think God knows though. You might want to check with Him.
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sprout:
I, in fact, ***am one ***of those directly involved in “picking up the pieces” so you’re preaching to choir here. I donate to and assist at Rachel’s Retreats (post abortion counseling and reconciliation) in addition to other ProLIfe activism.
This is a good thing.
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sprout:
I certainly hope you are not referring to me when you say " the hissing politically correct crowd" simply because I can “discern” between immoral acts and immoral persons.
Um, no. I was actually referring to people closer to where I live.
 
In my case, pretty much for the same reasons you can’t say," well, I don’t plan to have an abortion, but to each her own."
You are drawing a moral equivallency between showing pictures of the results of an abortion and **performing **an abortion?!?!:eek:
Because I can’t stand by and see what I believe, based on personal experience and studies on the use of other graphic images of violence, are young children being harmed needlessly by the actions of adults, however well-meaning or good their ultimate goal, and not say anything about it.
We’ve already established you don’t know how to evalute “studies.” That lesson comes after you complete your present assignment.
 
You are drawing a moral equivallency between showing pictures of the results of an abortion and **performing **an abortion?!?!:eek:

We’ve already established you don’t know how to evalute “studies.” That lesson comes after you complete your present assignment.
I thought she conceded the discussion. :confused:

edit: Ladies and Gentlemen, I am pleased to announce to you that we have only a few more pages to go before we will be competing not to get on each other’s ignore lists but to be the person who kills the thread. This thread is almost at its limit of posts. When we get there, then someone gets to start a new thread. I think that the person who gets to start a new thread should be someone who made it to some ignore lists. That way folks are going to have to take them off their ignore lists to read the OP.

:o And we can start all over again. Fresh start. New thoughts. Into the future.
 
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