Fr Richard Rohr?

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You haven’t shown where he misquotes the Bible by using everyday language.

Your merely expressing your inability to grasp what he wrote.

I don’t have a problem with this.

Not everyone understands the works of Pope Benedict XVI either, but his writings is brilliant and often over the heads of people who have a hard time to understand him.

Instead of telling others to reject Fr Rohr, perhaps you out to let it go ?

Jim
 
Anyway, I’m done arguing on this and other issues at CAF

Jim
 
Here’s another good example of Rohr’s slippery writing.

And I do understand why he has a following.

This one is a bit subtler.

Rohr writes: “As Christianity evolved in the centuries following Jesus’ death and resurrection, it naturally drew ideas from the surrounding Mediterranean culture. Roman and Greek mythology and philosophy used a great deal of Promethean, heroic, ascent images . The ego is naturally attracted to heroic language. To the ego, heroism feels like the way to go to God . No wonder Christian martyrs were immediately canonized. We placed our focus on the heroic instead of the transformative, on achieving rather than serving.”

Notice the assumptive clause, and his subtle slamming of the heroic Yes, and even Christian martyrdom.

Rohr, writes with a sort of pseudo-intellectual pen, and his followers have a pseudo intellectual ear.

Here is a jewel of his that puts his followers in a hypnotic trance: "If the Promethean is heroic expression, stoic spirituality is heroic repression."

Utter gobbledegook.

A more thoughtful listener might ask.

Why is the “ego” naturally attracted to heroic language?

Why indeed.

Rohr should have reflected on St Thomas’s writing…which would have given him an answer, stopping him from writing drivel.

Aquinas taught that we are attracted to the good, the true and beautiful, because we’re attracted to the source of all goodness, truth, and beauty: God.

In fact Aquinas referred to the intellect as a “rational appetite”…it is attracted/it desires the truth!
 
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Jesus by himself was not God, but God the Son, the 2nd Person of the one true God

Separating Jesus from God the Father and The Holy Spirit is what Fr Rohr is saying. There is only one God, not three, not two.

Jim
 
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You have a bad understanding of the Trinity. And so does Rohr.

Jesus was God, perfect man, perfect God.

God is one being, three “Persons” in one God.

God’s “thought” (word) of Himself is perfect. His thought of Himself is so perfect and complete with nothing missing of His own Essence, that it is “a Person”, the Son.

God the Father did not exist before the Son. God is not stuck in our time.

God loves His own Son and the Son loves the Father. Their love is so perfect, so complete, it is a Person, the Holy Spirit. It is a distinct and separate person.

Word and Love…Intellect and Will, respectively. Nothing more is needed. 3 in One.

Read the Athanasius Creed, beautifully laid out.

Athanasian Creed | beginningCatholic.com

The ancient Athanasian Creed as used in the Roman Catholic Church.
www.beginningcatholic.com
 
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Again you missed the point Fr Rohr was making.

Jesus was the 2nd Person of the Holy Trinity.

He’s not a second God, but one with the Father and Holy Spirit.

Jim
 
Jim, no, I’m afraid you missed my point about Rohr.

Rohr says that “he [Jesus] finds God among the impure instead of among the pure!”

And that’s heretical. Jesus is God…he’s not finding God among the impure…he’s finding and saving souls among the impure.

Rohr is tending toward pantheism here. No surpise.

You said that “Jesus was not God” and that’s heretical. Sorry. Plain and simple. You can try to Rohr your way back around this quote of yours, but it’s your belief and it’s counter to the Church.
 
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the tail end of the Athanasius creed reads:
It is also necessary for eternal salvation that he believes steadfastly in the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Thus the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is both God and man.
As God, He was begotten of the substance of the Father before time; as man, He was born in time of the substance of His Mother.
He is perfect God; and He is perfect man, with a rational soul and human flesh.
He is equal to the Father in His divinity, but inferior to the Father in His humanity.
Although He is God and man, He is not two, but one Christ.
And He is one, not because His divinity was changed into flesh, but because His humanity was assumed unto God.
He is one, not by a mingling of substances, but by unity of person.
As a rational soul and flesh are one man: so God and man are one Christ.
He died for our salvation, descended into hell, and rose from the dead on the third day.
He ascended into heaven, sits at the right hand of God the Father almighty. From there He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
At His coming, all men are to arise with their own bodies; and they are to give an account of their own deeds.
Those who have done good deeds will go into eternal life; those who have done evil will go into the everlasting fire.
This is the Catholic faith. Everyone must believe it, firmly and steadfastly; otherwise He cannot be saved.
Amen.
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“As God…”
 
dumbox said:
Be very careful, especially with his meditations. He is most certainly on the edge, and many people a lot smarter than you or me have in good detail shown the problems with his belief system.
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I guess I am on the edge also, if not over it, and maybe that is why I appreciate his insights.
 
Don’t give up…in fact you mustn’t give up.

You must come to accept the points in the Creed, giving great effort, prayer, and finally abanondment.

Think of Faith, Hope, and Charity as “ways to God”.

We use our intellect but it falls short…we then use our Faith and if we find it short, we ask for more. These are infused virtues.

In other words…we must use these theological virtues to come to know God in ways that our human faculties fall short of.

In a sense God is giving a way to know Him (and He in turn gets to know us more than otherwise) through thes e virtues.

We have to learn how to “love God beyond REASON”. Because HE LOVES US BEYOND REASON.
 
So in answer to the original poster: you can well see that people either like or dislike Rohr’s teachings and are prepared to bicker over then. I still maintain that it isn’t a good use of time to spend it reading his books though if God wants you to derive some good from them you surely will. He is very popular though no one I know save a couple Franciscan friars read his books.
 
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I give up explaining Fr Rohr to you.

It’s like hitting my head against a brick wall.

But one last time, Fr Rohr is not saying Jesus is not God the Son, but one of the three persons of the one true God.

Jim
 
He said: he [Jesus] finds God among the impure instead of among the pure!”

He’s off.
 
dumbox said:
He said: he [Jesus] finds God among the impure instead of among the pure!”

He’s off.
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Just out of curiosity, did you listen to the Gospel appointed for today, Sept 2nd? Did someone tell you what it is saying? Perhaps your priest?

Mark 7:1-8, 14-15, 21-23

Now when the Pharisees and some of the scribes who had come from Jerusalem gathered around him, they noticed that some of his disciples were eating with defiled hands, that is, without washing them.
(For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, do not eat unless they thoroughly wash their hands, thus observing the tradition of the elders; and they do not eat anything from the market unless they wash it; and there are also many other traditions that they observe, the washing of cups, pots, and bronze kettles.)

So the Pharisees and the scribes asked him, “Why do your disciples not live according to the tradition of the elders, but eat with defiled hands?” He said to them, "Isaiah prophesied rightly about you hypocrites, as it is written, ‘This people honors me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching human precepts as doctrines.’

You abandon the commandment of God and hold to human tradition."

Then he called the crowd again and said to them, “Listen to me, all of you, and understand:
there is nothing outside a person that by going in can defile, but the things that come out are what defile.”

For it is from within, from the human heart, that evil intentions come: fornication, theft, murder,
adultery, avarice, wickedness, deceit, licentiousness, envy, slander, pride, folly. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person."
 
So you’re equating a Jewish “add on” liturigical law to the Church’s teaching on the Divinity of Jesus?!

Now, that’s how bad discourse and formation have fallen among some catholics.

Some throw out “pharisee” with the same alacrity as they throw out the word homophobic.

Study the differences among liturgical law vs. divine positive law vs. natural law vs eternal law.
 
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JimR-OCDS said:
Your merely expressing your inability to grasp what he wrote.
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Hmm… 🤔
So off went the Emperor in procession under his splendid canopy. Everyone in the streets and the windows said, “Oh, how fine are the Emperor’s new clothes! Don’t they fit him to perfection? And see his long train!” Nobody would confess that he couldn’t see anything, for that would prove him either unfit for his position, or a fool. No costume the Emperor had worn before was ever such a complete success.

“But he hasn’t got anything on,” a little child said.

“Did you ever hear such innocent prattle?” said its father.
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Sometimes, giving voice to what’s not there isn’t merely “inability to grasp” what’s being claimed is present. 😉
 
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JimR-OCDS said:
I give up explaining Fr Rohr to you.

It’s like hitting my head against a brick wall.

But one last time, Fr Rohr is not saying Jesus is not God the Son, but one of the three persons of the one true God.

Jim
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Jim, I think I am going to join you. Dumbox, we have very different mindsets here, as well as ways of reading texts. I prefer not to do the head banging for now. You think what you want to think.
 
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