Fr. Rohr on the second temptation

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Fr. Rohr’s daily meditation for March 20:

THE PATH OF DESCENT

The second temptation of Jesus is another one that all of us must face. Satan takes Jesus up to the pinnacle of the Temple, symbolizing the top of the religious world itself, and tells him to play “righteousness games” with God. “Throw yourself off and He’ll catch you” (Matthew 4:6). It’s the only time in the Bible where the devil quotes Scripture. Holy words can be used for evil purposes, it surely says. This second temptation is to think of yourself as saved, superior to others, the moral elite on the side of God and religion, and to quote arguable Scriptures for your own purpose—being against God in the name of God. Actually it is quite common.

As Mother Teresa loved to say, “We were not created to be successful [even spiritually successful!], but to be obedient.” True obedience to God won’t always make us look or feel right (that is why it takes faith!), so be careful before you stand on the pinnacle of any Temple, Scripture, or Sacrament. It is the common temptation of actually loving ourselves under the guise of loving God.

Adapted from Radical Grace: Daily Meditations, p. 295, day 309

I think we can all agree with the gist of Fr. Rohr’s writing here.

But I am thinking that there is another way of looking at this without condemning our own egos. I am not saying that condemning our egos is unproductive or bad in itself. Condemning our ego is a natural part of coming to know ourselves, i.e. “something drives me to be ‘selfish’, and whatever it is, it is bad!!”. In fact, condemning our own ego is an act of our own ego.

We learn that behaving pridefully is disobedient to God. If we respect God, we behave well for that reason. Eventually we see that acting on our own pride can be hurtful to others, so we refrain from certain behaviors on a different basis. Obedience becomes less of a guiding factor.

Pride is one of those human nature defaults, isn’t it? And given that it is part of our nature, God put it there, and it is a good thing.

Wait a minute now!! I hear an outcry as I write. Are you saying that we just let everyone be selfish and consider themselves superior?

Well… No, and Yes. When a person’s sense of “self” comes to include all of humanity, which happens through love and forgiveness, then “selfish” is a rather good thing, is it not? When a father demands that his child gets more play time at little league than the teammates, is he not still behaving “selfishly”, even though he is not directly benefiting? Imagine then, that everyone’s sense of self grows beyond our kin and our in-group, to include, instead, everyone. We could certainly wish for such a “selfish” mentality! So, in that sense, Yes. And, given that our world is growing older and more mature, on the average, this type of inclusive love is much more possible.

However, to be realistic, such a mentality is hard to achieve, and children are not capable. Until a child’s empathy is fully developed, they will not include others as part of themselves. They will naturally condemn some other people. They will see some people as “the good guys” and others as “the bad guys”, and hopefully they will obediently want to be part of the “good guys”. This works. So in this sense, no, I am not saying that people should be allowed to misbehave. We need to encourage obedience until they can use Love as the ultimate guide.

Once they have their behaviors under control, we can take them to the next level, we can teach them how to forgive. They will learn, in addition, that thinking of oneself as part of a moral elite is merely ignorance. It is not a “temptation” at all. When we think we are better than others, we are blind. When we try to do better for ourselves at the expense of others, we are acting out of blindness.
 
Amen!

You got that right…and I would add…thank God, the Master has given us many great and totally faithful…and humble…servants (bishops/priests/deacons/religious/lay apostolate’s) to help us do good work in His vineyard…and to bear good and pleasing fruit for his Harvest and Glory!

Pax Christi
 
Fr. Rohr’s daily meditation for March 20:

THE PATH OF DESCENT

The second temptation of Jesus is another one that all of us must face. Satan takes Jesus up to the pinnacle of the Temple, symbolizing the top of the religious world itself, and tells him to play “righteousness games” with God. “Throw yourself off and He’ll catch you” (Matthew 4:6). It’s the only time in the Bible where the devil quotes Scripture. Holy words can be used for evil purposes, it surely says. This second temptation is to think of yourself as saved, superior to others, the moral elite on the side of God and religion, and to quote arguable Scriptures for your own purpose—being against God in the name of God. Actually it is quite common.

As Mother Teresa loved to say, “We were not created to be successful [even spiritually successful!], but to be obedient.” True obedience to God won’t always make us look or feel right (that is why it takes faith!), so be careful before you stand on the pinnacle of any Temple, Scripture, or Sacrament. It is the common temptation of actually loving ourselves under the guise of loving God.

Adapted from Radical Grace: Daily Meditations, p. 295, day 309

I think we can all agree with the gist of Fr. Rohr’s writing here.

But I am thinking that there is another way of looking at this without condemning our own egos. I am not saying that condemning our egos is unproductive or bad in itself. Condemning our ego is a natural part of coming to know ourselves, i.e. “something drives me to be ‘selfish’, and whatever it is, it is bad!!”. In fact, condemning our own ego is an act of our own ego.

We learn that behaving pridefully is disobedient to God. If we respect God, we behave well for that reason. Eventually we see that acting on our own pride can be hurtful to others, so we refrain from certain behaviors on a different basis. Obedience becomes less of a guiding factor.

Pride is one of those human nature defaults, isn’t it? And given that it is part of our nature, God put it there, and it is a good thing.

Wait a minute now!! I hear an outcry as I write. Are you saying that we just let everyone be selfish and consider themselves superior?

Well… No, and Yes. When a person’s sense of “self” comes to include all of humanity, which happens through love and forgiveness, then “selfish” is a rather good thing, is it not? When a father demands that his child gets more play time at little league than the teammates, is he not still behaving “selfishly”, even though he is not directly benefiting? Imagine then, that everyone’s sense of self grows beyond our kin and our in-group, to include, instead, everyone. We could certainly wish for such a “selfish” mentality! So, in that sense, Yes. And, given that our world is growing older and more mature, on the average, this type of inclusive love is much more possible.

However, to be realistic, such a mentality is hard to achieve, and children are not capable. Until a child’s empathy is fully developed, they will not include others as part of themselves. They will naturally condemn some other people. They will see some people as “the good guys” and others as “the bad guys”, and hopefully they will obediently want to be part of the “good guys”. This works. So in this sense, no, I am not saying that people should be allowed to misbehave. We need to encourage obedience until they can use Love as the ultimate guide.

Once they have their behaviors under control, we can take them to the next level, we can teach them how to forgive. They will learn, in addition, that thinking of oneself as part of a moral elite is merely ignorance. It is not a “temptation” at all. When we think we are better than others, we are blind. When we try to do better for ourselves at the expense of others, we are acting out of blindness.
We must empty ourselves of self, in order that we may become filled with Christ. Divine physics at work here. Two objects cannot occupy the same space at the same time. We cannot be simultaneously filled with self and filled with Christ. It’s either one or the other.

Obedience is based in humility. Humility is based in truth. The Truth, absolutely speaking, is not a viewpoint or an opinion. It is a Person. Jesus Christ, Who said, “I am the way, the Truth, and the life.” And to be truly humble, we must be obedient, not just to God, but to those whom God has placed over us, i.e., our superiors. For a prideful soul, this is very difficult and painful. For a humble soul, it is very pleasing and acceptable.
 
I would say that it is a stretch to call selfless love for all humanity a kind of expanded selfishness…I think it’s quite a different, even contrary, concept to self-love. But, that’s not what I wanted to address.
Pride is one of those human nature defaults, isn’t it? And given that it is part of our nature, God put it there, and it is a good thing.
Be very careful, this is not true. Pride is a part of fallen human nature. Before the fall, we were not proud. God did not create us with this selfish nature. That is a product of our own disobedience.

I think it’s very important to avoid attributing our own human, fallen mess to God 🙂 That carries a great risk of attributing our own ugly sins, habits, behaviors, etc. to God rather than our own choices. Hope that helps.

In Christ through Mary,
Frank
 
I would say that it is a stretch to call selfless love for all humanity a kind of expanded selfishness…I think it’s quite a different, even contrary, concept to self-love. But, that’s not what I wanted to address.

Be very careful, this is not true. Pride is a part of fallen human nature. Before the fall, we were not proud. God did not create us with this selfish nature. That is a product of our own disobedience.

I think it’s very important to avoid attributing our own human, fallen mess to God 🙂 That carries a great risk of attributing our own ugly sins, habits, behaviors, etc. to God rather than our own choices. Hope that helps.

In Christ through Mary,
Frank
I would agree that it is an error to attribute human decisions to God. Our nature, however, is a different story.

The question is, what are you calling our “nature”? If it includes our choices, then we agree. What would you specifically call part of our “fallen” nature? I will assume, for the moment, that “selfishness” is one aspect.

I think we would agree that all other creatures on this Earth are “selfish”. Let’s start from there. It appears to be the default mode. But that is not what we usually are talking about. We are usually talking about our emotional reaction (i.e. saying “avoid” to a post we don’t like, judging someone instead of engaging in thoughtful discourse). Specifically, though, we are talking about an emotional reaction we have to when we see someone doing something at the expense of someone else.

We have, over time, attributed misbehaviors to “fallen nature”. For example, let us take the case of a person cutting in line. This was a choice made out of ignorance. Which part of the act can we attribute to “fallen nature”?

“Pride” is one of those words that is loaded with definitions from all directions. If someone thinks themselves better than someone else, then this, again, is a matter of ignorance. Would you say that ignorance itself is part of our “fallen nature”?

And on “expanded selfishness”, I am referring to Jesus saying “love your neighbor as yourself”. Jesus knows that we all love ourselves (unless we are self-condemning). Jesus asks us to love one another as we would love ourselves. Jesus did not ask us to avoid loving ourselves. I would argue that incredible people like Mother Teresa truly loved themselves and gave themselves to others because of the very fact that she empathized very deeply with them. Her love was not exclusive. I think that when we behave in such a way toward others, that our own happiness is intricately tied to the happiness of others. This could certainly be construed that others become extensions of ourselves, which is the way that most parents feel about their children.

And thanks for your polite response to my opening post.
 
We must empty ourselves of self, in order that we may become filled with Christ. Divine physics at work here. Two objects cannot occupy the same space at the same time. We cannot be simultaneously filled with self and filled with Christ. It’s either one or the other.

Obedience is based in humility. Humility is based in truth. The Truth, absolutely speaking, is not a viewpoint or an opinion. It is a Person. Jesus Christ, Who said, “I am the way, the Truth, and the life.” And to be truly humble, we must be obedient, not just to God, but to those whom God has placed over us, i.e., our superiors. For a prideful soul, this is very difficult and painful. For a humble soul, it is very pleasing and acceptable.
I word it this way:

If someone chooses to deny their own drives to be first, to have stuff other people have, to have lots of mates, to be popular, to sit around and do nothing, to anger, to wanting tons of material stuff, to addiction, but instead to turn and be obedient to Christ, then they are on the road to salvation.

In the mean time, when we are caught up in all of those drives, we are slaves to the robotics of our own programming. The programming itself is good, it helps us survive in the world, as it helps all the other of God’s creatures.

Extremism, however, is not what Christ wants, at least the Jesus I know in my own prayer life. For example, in the history of Christianity, there are times when sexuality itself is seen as an evil. It seems that there were times when people were canonized just for never having sex, even with their spouses. Such extremism is only another aspect of our programming, though. Just as we can become slaves to the other drives mentioned above, we can become slaves to the desire to punish others, and we can become slaves to the resentment of our own nature.

So, I think there is probably no difference in what we are saying. I would add that we can certainly forgive “prideful souls”. When people are caught up in wanting to be on top and be popular, they are slaves to it, and when they have suffered long enough, they will find the humility you are talking about.
 
Don’t we all tend to think we know best. The “moral elite”
And so much effort is made to set others right. No wonder the world is torn.

I started reading the conferences of John Cassian last night. Just taking them slowly. He and Father Germanus go to Abbat Moses begging for instruction. he speaks of purity of heart.

For “not to be envious,” “not to be puffed up, not to be angry, not to do any wrong, not to seek one’s own, not to rejoice in iniquity, not to think evil” etc., what is all this except ever to offer to God a perfect and clean heart, and to keep it free from all disturbances?

Whatever then can disturb that purity and peace of mind–even though it may seem useful and valuable–should be shunned as really hurtful, for by this rule we shall succeed in escaping harm from mistakes and vagaries, and make straight for the desired end and reach it.
ccel.org/ccel/cassian/conferences.ii.ii.i.html
 
I word it this way:

If someone chooses to deny their own drives to be first, to have stuff other people have, to have lots of mates, to be popular, to sit around and do nothing, to anger, to wanting tons of material stuff, to addiction, but instead to turn and be obedient to Christ, then they are on the road to salvation.

In the mean time, when we are caught up in all of those drives, we are slaves to the robotics of our own programming. The programming itself is good, it helps us survive in the world, as it helps all the other of God’s creatures.

Extremism, however, is not what Christ wants, at least the Jesus I know in my own prayer life. For example, in the history of Christianity, there are times when sexuality itself is seen as an evil. It seems that there were times when people were canonized just for never having sex, even with their spouses. Such extremism is only another aspect of our programming, though. Just as we can become slaves to the other drives mentioned above, we can become slaves to the desire to punish others, and we can become slaves to the resentment of our own nature.

So, I think there is probably no difference in what we are saying. I would add that we can certainly forgive “prideful souls”. When people are caught up in wanting to be on top and be popular, they are slaves to it, and when they have suffered long enough, they will find the humility you are talking about.
I like that. You have spoken wisely. 🙂
 
The question is, what are you calling our “nature”? If it includes our choices, then we agree. What would you specifically call part of our “fallen” nature? I will assume, for the moment, that “selfishness” is one aspect.
Selfishness is central to what we call fallen nature, I would say. The effect is that we no longer see our world, our existence, as God-centered, but as “me-centered,” so to speak. This does not simply affect our decision-making, but the way we view everything. This makes the scope of what comes under “fallen nature” very broad, as it should be. The relationship Adam and Eve had with God was free of ignorance, selfishness, etc.
We have, over time, attributed misbehaviors to “fallen nature”. For example, let us take the case of a person cutting in line. This was a choice made out of ignorance. Which part of the act can we attribute to “fallen nature”?.
It’s the inclination toward the act that is attributed to our fallen nature. Fallen human nature explains why we tend toward all these selfish, sinful acts. Fallen nature, of course, does not excuse out sinful actions. Big difference.
“Pride” is one of those words that is loaded with definitions from all directions. If someone thinks themselves better than someone else, then this, again, is a matter of ignorance. Would you say that ignorance itself is part of our “fallen nature”?
Yes, absolutely. You see, the fall changed not just actions, but the way we “see”. Pre-fall, I think our existence, our close walking with God, would keep us from the tendency to cut people off without thinking of them, to speak to your example. Everything from ignorance to malice can be attributed to the break that occurred at Eden between God and us.
And thanks for your polite response to my opening post.
You are most welcome. To be fair, I think most people above were not simply "avoid"ing you, but avoiding Fr. Richard Rohr. And that’s a legitimate concern. People like Fr. Rohr, Fr. Keating, Fr. Pennington, etc. who are closely associated with new age practices are best avoided. From St. Benedict to St. Teresa to the Little Flower, the Church has such a beautiful treasure trove of spiritual writings that can bring us to great sanctity. Even if these new-age leaning writers have good intentions (I think most of them do), why would we dabble in spiritualities that are mixing in non-Christian ideas and practices? It’s like living in a palace with a most beautiful, lush garden, and going out on the road and picking plants and flowers from the highway. Totally unnecessary, and you are much more likely to get something unpleasant or even dangerous! Stick with the saints 🙂

In Christ through Mary,
Frank
 
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