Fr. Zuhlsdorf on Cardinal Muller

[pnewton]

Only Cardinal Muller, speaking as head of the CDF, and the Pope can give the whole Church an authoritative, doctrinal interpretation of A L.

That is not how the Church works. Speaking in an interview is nothing, or at least nothing official. The interviewer could lie. The interview could omit parts. You have more faith in the mainstream media than I do.

 

[KSU]

That is not how the Church works. Speaking in an interview is nothing, or at least nothing official. The interviewer could lie. The interview could omit parts. You have more faith in the mainstream media than I do.

Here is how the Church does not work: Attributing to the Holy Father an intent to change unchangeable dogma and clear Cannon Law by making the whole Church guess at what he’s doing. That is disrespectful to the Holy Father.

While I have little to no faith in the mainstream media ( and Father Z , the CATHOLIC HERALD, etc. are not examples of the mainstream media), I have total faith in the head of the CDF who clearly spoke with the ringing authority of his Office.

The doctrinal argument by folks like us is closed, and the bishops who have mistranslated Chapter 8 of A. L. will correct themselves or suffer correction.

 

[pnewton]

The doctrinal argument by folks like us is closed, and the bishops who have mistranslated Chapter 8 of A. L. will correct themselves or suffer correction.

I would take money that is not the case. I find those that trust the mainstream media better off than those that just trust those media outlets that feed them what they want to know. This interview was with neither the Catholic Herald or Fr. Zuhlsdorf. They are passing on what was passed on to pass on. Without source document, there is less accuracy than the standard media provide.

Yeah, talk of “correction” has floated around for two months now and nothing is closed. No “correction” has been issued. Maybe your skills are prognostication are superior to mine. I never try.

 

[twf]

Only Cardinal Muller, speaking as head of the CDF, and the Pope can give the whole Church an authoritative, doctrinal interpretation of A L.

Since the good Cardinal has spoken and has not been corrected by Pope Francis it must be assumed that the Cardinal and Pope are in substantial agreement.

Thanks be to God.

It is possible the Holy Father has changed his position and is in agreement with Cardinal Mueller… but It is very difficult to deny that the Holy Father supported a change in this area. Firstly, there is his letter to the Argentine bishops applauding their implementation of AL. Then you have the new pastoral guidelines in the Diocese of Rome itself as implemented by the Cardinal Vicar. Do you think it’s possible that the Cardinal Vicar could take such radical steps in the Pope’s own diocese without his consent?

 

[Maxirad]

Has Fr. Zuhlsforf ever been interviewed by Raymond Arroyo for The World Over?

 

[KSU]

It is possible the Holy Father has changed his position and is in agreement with Cardinal Mueller… but It is very difficult to deny that the Holy Father supported a change in this area. Firstly, there is his letter to the Argentine bishops applauding their implementation of AL.

**My opinion: He more than supported a change in practice; he very much wanted a change in practice, provided that it was possible to do so within the framework of the controlling dogma. After the Synod Fathers in effect voted “no”, neither he nor his supporters have been able to articulate/define the so-called rare set of circumstances under which the change in practice would fit within the four corners of Church law and dogma.
Note that neither his letter to the Argentine bishops applauding their implementation of A.L. nor the implementation itself articulated the elusive rare set of circumstances whereby a change could occur. **

Then you have the new pastoral guidelines in the Diocese of Rome itself as implemented by the Cardinal Vicar. Do you think it’s possible that the Cardinal Vicar could take such radical steps in the Pope’s own diocese without his consent?

Yes; the Cardinal Vicar, the bishops of Malta and the bishops of Germany could be forgiven for assuming that they had the Holy Father’s consent. But have we seen any letters from Pope Francis confirming his consent to that minority group of bishops? By the same token, have we seen any letters “correcting” the public and private contrary implementations by the majority of the world’s bishops?

 

[Catholic_Opinion]

http://wdtprs.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Gerhard_Muller.jpgAs you may remember, some months ago Pope Francis saw to the creation of a group to study the question of female deacons (aka deaconesses, aka deaconettes). *Last November, when the group met for the first time, I wrote: “Their slow march to the vanishing point has begun.”

Perhaps that march won’t be so slow after all.

I saw an interesting story at the German language site*Kathnet. * Gerhard Ludwig Card.*Müller, Prefect of the CDF,*isn’t encouraging the proponents of the ordination of women.

Kardinal Müller, Präfekt der Glaubenskongregation, im Interview mit der „Rheinischen Post“: Bischofs-, Priester- und Diakonenweihe für Frauen „nicht notwendig und nicht möglich, wie es sich aus diversen Studien auch der Glaubenskongregation“ ergebe.

Cardinal Müller, Prefect of the Congregation for the Congregation of the Faith, in an interview with the “Rheinische Post”: The ordination of women as bishops, priests and deacons is *“not necessary and not possible, as it is evident from various studies of the Congregation for the Congregation of the Faith.“

The CDF is supervising the deaconette study group and the CDF’s Secretary, Archbp. Ladaria, is its chief.

I find the timing of the interview and this statement interesting, given that they will probably be meeting again*before too long.

The original interview*in German HERE.

Sehen Sie denn als sogenannter Glaubenswächter eine Chance, dass in der katholischen Kirche noch einmal über das Weiheamt auch für Frauen gesprochen wird?

**Müller **Frauen sind immer wichtig gewesen für das ganze kirchliche Leben – im Bereich der Erziehung, der Bildung und Wissenschaft, der kirchlichen Verwaltung, in der Ehe, Familie. Das Sakrament der Weihe in den Stufen des Bischofs, Priesters und Diakons ist dafür nicht notwendig und nicht möglich, wie es sich aus diversen Studien auch der Glaubenskongregation ergibt.

Full entry…

 

[PluniaZ]

Thanks be to God for the wise teaching we are receiving from Cardinal Muller.

 

[tseleehw]

God bless Cardinal Muller for speaking out. Between this and his recent comments on bishops’ contradictory interpretations of AL, I wonder if he’s trying to get fired

 

[_Abyssinia]

 

[anthony022071]

What some people call mercy will be acted out as another kind of legalism. Instead of people in irregular relationships being barred from receiving communion because they don’t meet the requirements of Church laws, they will be admitted to communion because it is not clear that they violate the laws. Legalism is not always too restrictive, it can also be too permissive.

 

[Wandile]

Cardinal Müller!!!

 

[Ginny89]

I would take money that is not the case. I find those that trust the mainstream media better off than those that just trust those media outlets that feed them what they want to know. This interview was with neither the Catholic Herald or Fr. Zuhlsdorf. They are passing on what was passed on to pass on. Without source document, there is less accuracy than the standard media provide.

Yeah, talk of “correction” has floated around for two months now and nothing is closed. No “correction” has been issued. Maybe your skills are prognostication are superior to mine. I never try.

So you are saying the interview was made up. Interesting. I wonder if Cardinal Muller has come out to correct this mischaracterization of his words?

 

[Ginny89]

I always wonder why the pope commissions studies of things that have been studied before and found impossible? People have been speculating that Pope Francis will be succeeded by Cardinal Sarah. My own hunch is that he will be succeeded by Cardinal Muller.

 

[KSU]

I wonder if Cardinal Muller has come out to correct this mischaracterization of his words?

Good point.

What some folks may not know is that the Dubia was addressed to Pope Francis, but was “for the attention of His Eminence Cardinal Gerhard L. Müller”. That’s because it’s the Cardinal’s job to interpret and define Church doctrine authoritatively.

The Cardinal is the only person in the Church who has the authority to speak for the Holy Father regarding doctrine. Because Pope Francis has chosen not to speak for himself or to “correct” Cardinal Muller, this matter is closed. Those who refuse to accept the Cardinal’s statement (i.e., his confirmation and defense of the past Popes’ pronouncements on this matter) stand on quicksand, just as do those who still refuse to accept Humanae Vitae.

 

[Pulvis]

Good point.

What some folks may not know is that the Dubia was addressed to Pope Francis, but was “for the attention of His Eminence Cardinal Gerhard L. Müller”. That’s because it’s the Cardinal’s job to interpret and define Church doctrine authoritatively.

The Cardinal is the only person in the Church who has the authority to speak for the Holy Father regarding doctrine. Because Pope Francis has chosen not to speak for himself or to “correct” Cardinal Muller, this matter is closed. Those who refuse to accept the Cardinal’s statement (i.e., his confirmation and defense of the past Popes’ pronouncements on this matter) stand on quicksand, just as do those who still refuse to accept Humanae Vitae.

 

[Seamus_L]

I agree that this is only an interview, but there’s still going to be fall out from it.

 

[3_Dog_Night]

What some folks may not know is that the Dubia was addressed to Pope Francis, but was “for the attention of His Eminence Cardinal Gerhard L. Müller”. That’s because it’s the Cardinal’s job to interpret and define Church doctrine authoritatively.

The Cardinal is the only person in the Church who has the authority to speak for the Holy Father regarding doctrine. Because Pope Francis has chosen not to speak for himself or to “correct” Cardinal Muller, this matter is closed. Those who refuse to accept the Cardinal’s statement (i.e., his confirmation and defense of the past Popes’ pronouncements on this matter) stand on quicksand, just as do those who still refuse to accept Humanae Vitae.

I had no idea the Catholic Church now defines doctrine and dogma via footnotes and media interviews. At the risk of standing on quicksand, no less, for those who do not accept such pronouncements. Good to know. If that be the case, then it seems to me we can dispense with all of the other Cardinals and all of the other Bishops of the Church and just keep Cardinal Muller and Pope Francis. Thanks for the information.

 

[pnewton]

So you are saying the interview was made up. Interesting. I wonder if Cardinal Muller has come out to correct this mischaracterization of his words?

No, I am not saying it was “made up.” The interview started with an Italian magazine and went through multiple source before it was linked here, like a gossip chain. If this is to be trusted, then no one has any justification blaming the mainstream media. It is the same process which can lead to error, which is why the Church does not put out information this way.

 

[Ubenedictus]

What some people call mercy will be acted out as another kind of legalism. Instead of people in irregular relationships being barred from receiving communion because they don’t meet the requirements of Church laws, they will be admitted to communion because it is not clear that they violate the laws. Legalism is not always too restrictive, it can also be too permissive.

You have a point here and I think the practice of interpreting laws in the too permissive sense has had us in hot water since vat ii. When i read the magisterial document I usually have no problem but when I look at what is done by those who claim to act according to its spirit I am really surprised, AL will go a similar way, it probably should open doors in rare cases but many will use it as a hammer to break down doctrinal walls.