Framented Christianity

[Dokimas]

I get soooo frustrated with so many different “types” of Christian faiths. - Actually there is only one faith. Jesus is the Author and Finisher of that faith.

ONE GOD means He gave us ONE message of salvation. - And that’s the Gospel of Jesus.

ONE GOD means He has only ONE truth. Jesus is THE Truth.

On my study and journey to the Christain faith (out of the darkness of Atheism), I was confused about which church to worship my new found belief. So many different types of Christain churches with so many differing beliefs. -

church “A”…Water baptism not needed for salvation. - Agreed

church “B”…Water baptism needed to wash away original sins. - Only the Blood of Jesus can do that.

church “C”…No such thing as Original sins. And that church doens’t believe the Bible.

church “D”…Jesus took ALL our sins to the Cross so our salvation is “assured”. Can’t comment cuz I don’t understand.

I studied and studied all the differing Protestant faiths, and Yes, they have a deep and wonderful love of God and truly wish to follow Him, but after much study on the different denominations, I almost gave up hope that there truly was a God at all. After all, there is only ONE truth, not many! - Any protestant church that loves God and His Word would agree, so I’m not sure what you were seeing when you ‘examined’ the protestants.

If not for the Grace of God in leading me to the Catholic Church, I may well have fallen back to my old atheist views (which would have meant Death to my soul). - Maybe there’s the answer about why there’s a lot of different Christian churches ---- God knows each of us so well He knows what type of church He can use in the lives of those who will believe.

If Protestants believe the Catholic Church was “derailed” at some point, then why is there not only One protestant church?, Why are there Church of Christ and Church of God and Baptist and Methodist and and and…you get the idea. - Maybe I answered it in my last comment.

Did Jesus teach many different Truths and does God teach that, as an example, that Baptism is right for this group but wrong for the other? - No He doesn’t teach different truths; as Paul said in 1 Cor 13 we see darkly now because we are greatly limited. That doesn’t concern God. He is able to help us through our learning disabilities.

Am I missing something here? - This is beyond my ability to know.

Jesus’ prayer was that all would be One as He and the Father are One. Maybe I just don’t understand the definition of ONE. - Maybe it has less to do with believing exactly the same thing on every detail and has a LOT more to do with loving each other as He gave us command.

 

[CMatt25]

We all know that The Catholic Church, officially and currently, is in full agreement with The Catholic Church in all matters that The Catholic Church currently views as necessary for agreement. It has a unity of ONE: self alone with self alone. SO WHAT?

AT LEAST as much can be said of every other denomination, too. The Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod is offically and currently in agreement with The Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod in all matters that The Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod currently views as necessary to agree upon. It has a unity of one, too. Self with self (actually, it is in full doctrinal unity with hundreds of OTHER denominations, too - albeit all of the Lutheran tradition). Heck, I’m in official and current agreement with everything that I currently feel good to agree upon, I have a unity of one: self with self (AT LEAST), SO WHAT? The Trabernacle of The Apostle Bob (yes, it exists) is officially and currently in full doctrinal agreement with The Tabernacle of The Apostle Bob in all matters that The Tabernacle of The Apostle Bob currently regards as necessarily for agreement. SO WHAT?

The Catholic Church is NO BETTER (and often worse) in this regard than other denominations. It has a unity of exactly ONE; Self alone with self alone. And even that, only currently and only officially. It agrees with ONE. AT LEAST that can be said for every other teacher, denomination, institution, organization. SO WHAT? WHY is that signfiicant for The Catholic Church?

The Catholic Church claims to have the truth - in fact, it’s the only denomination on the planet that insists that it is INCAPABLE of error and thus exempts itself from accountability for what it teaches and instead demands that all just accept whatever it says “with docility.” But it agrees with NO OTHER. How is that not “fragmented?” How is self alone being in unity and agreement with self alone an indication of Christianity having a united message? It is AT LEAST as “bad” as any other denomination on the planet.

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[wisdomseeker]

We all know that The Catholic Church, officially and currently, is in full agreement with The Catholic Church in all matters that The Catholic Church currently views as necessary for agreement. It has a unity of ONE: self alone with self alone. ** SO WHAT?**

AT LEAST as much can be said of every other denomination, too. The Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod is offically and currently in agreement with The Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod in all matters that The Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod currently views as necessary to agree upon. It has a unity of one, too. Self with self (actually, it is in full doctrinal unity with hundreds of OTHER denominations, too - albeit all of the Lutheran tradition). Heck, I’m in official and current agreement with everything that I currently feel good to agree upon, I have a unity of one: self with self (AT LEAST), **SO WHAT? ** The Trabernacle of The Apostle Bob (yes, it exists) is officially and currently in full doctrinal agreement with The Tabernacle of The Apostle Bob in all matters that The Tabernacle of The Apostle Bob currently regards as necessarily for agreement. SO WHAT?

The Catholic Church is NO BETTER (and often worse) in this regard than other denominations. It has a unity of exactly ONE; Self alone with self alone. And even that, only currently and only officially. It agrees with ONE. AT LEAST that can be said for every other teacher, denomination, institution, organization. SO WHAT? WHY is that signfiicant for The Catholic Church?



.

of course. didnt Jesus found One Church only? so, shouldnt this One Church be all in agreement whatever she is? shouldnt the teachings be One and only? did not this Church come before the Bible came to be? and protestants congregations came into existence only after the Bible was stolen from the CC? so, my conclusion is: that One Church was always in existence. the problem is that man with big ideas tought that they can do better outside the Church Jesus found.

now we see nothing but confusion with self made authority based on the Bible alone.

the Eucharistia is a big One. which can only be done in the One Church Jesus found. that is one of many we can identify the One True Church.

**Zech. 9:15-16 - this is a prophecy that the sons of Zion, which is the site of the establishment of the Eucharistic sacrifice, shall drink blood like wine and be saved. This prophecy is fulfilled only by the priests of the Catholic Church. **

 

[AmericanJosiah]

Josiah:

We all know that The Catholic Church, officially and currently, is in full agreement with The Catholic Church in all matters that The Catholic Church currently views as necessary for agreement. It has a unity of ONE: self alone with self alone. SO WHAT?

AT LEAST as much can be said of every other denomination, too. The Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod is offically and currently in agreement with The Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod in all matters that The Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod currently views as necessary to agree upon. It has a unity of one, too. Self with self (actually, it is in full doctrinal unity with hundreds of OTHER denominations, too - albeit all of the Lutheran tradition). Heck, I’m in official and current agreement with everything that I currently feel good to agree upon, I have a unity of one: self with self (AT LEAST), SO WHAT? The Trabernacle of The Apostle Bob (yes, it exists) is officially and currently in full doctrinal agreement with The Tabernacle of The Apostle Bob in all matters that The Tabernacle of The Apostle Bob currently regards as necessarily for agreement. SO WHAT?

The Catholic Church is NO BETTER (and often worse) in this regard than other denominations. It has a unity of exactly ONE; Self alone with self alone. And even that, only currently and only officially. It agrees with ONE. AT LEAST that can be said for every other teacher, denomination, institution, organization. SO WHAT? WHY is that signfiicant for The Catholic Church?

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of course.

You didn’t answer my question. Yes, every teacher and denomination and organization (including The Catholic Church) officially and currently agrees with ITSELF in all issues that itself currently thinks there should be agreement upon. It’s true of The Catholic Church. It’s true of The Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Church. It’s true for EVERY teacher, group, congregation, denomination, organization, religious body. ** SO WHAT? ** Why does the reality that The Catholic Church has a unity of ONE - just itself exclusively with itself exclusively - why does that suggest to you that ergo it must be infallible, incapable of error, exempt from accountability and instead all must just accept whatever it alone says “with docility” as Jesus speaking? By your rubric, the exact same would have to be said for every other teacher, congregation, denomination, institution, organization, body on the planet because ALL of them have AT LEAST what The Catholic Church does - a unity of ONE: Self alone with self alone (and that, only formally and on the issues that self alone currently views as good to agree upon). SO WHAT?

And why is it significant, to you, that if self alone agrees with self alone (currently and formally, anyway - in matters that self alone currently views as good to agree upon) that ergo that one MUST be right? I agree with me, ergo am I infallible, unaccountable, incapable of error, and you must accept WHATEVER I say with docility as Jesus speaking? I think your rationale is very flawed and your apologetic moot.

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[CMatt25]

The Catholic Church claims to have the truth - in fact, it’s the only denomination on the planet that insists that it is INCAPABLE of error and thus exempts itself from accountability for what it teaches and instead demands that all just accept whatever it says “with docility.”

I think what some Catholics may overlook is she is accountable to Christ so it is not totally beyond the realm of possibility Christ has to make adjustments, corrections, and reforms to His Church along the way. The reverse is true for others. Perhaps the Catholics have it all right. But none of this means the gates have prevailed. With Christ our captain and steering the ship they will not when He comes again.

In the meantime, who for certain has everything right? All of us like to think we know everything. But it all comes down to faith. Faith in God. Faith in the Bible, in the Jesus story being true. Faith in the ECF’s being without err. Faith in an interpretation given and received. If it was all so clear as Catholics make it out to be, there would be no fragmentation. But where I think we all might fail at times is not admitting in the end it all comes down to this one thing we call faith. No matter what faith we believe in. Peace.

 

[wisdomseeker]

You didn’t answer my question. Yes, every teacher and denomination and organization (including The Catholic Church) officially and currently agrees with ITSELF in all issues that itself currently thinks there should be agreement upon. It’s true of The Catholic Church. It’s true of The Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Church. It’s true for EVERY teacher, group, congregation, denomination, organization, religious body. ** SO WHAT? ** Why does the reality that The Catholic Church has a unity of ONE - just itself exclusively with itself exclusively - why does that suggest to you that ergo it must be infallible, incapable of error, exempt from accountability and instead all must just accept whatever it alone says “with docility” as Jesus speaking? By your rubric, the exact same would have to be said for every other teacher, congregation, denomination, institution, organization, body on the planet because ALL of them have AT LEAST what The Catholic Church does - a unity of ONE: Self alone with self alone (and that, only formally and on the issues that self alone currently views as good to agree upon). SO WHAT?

And why is it significant, to you, that if self alone agrees with self alone (currently and formally, anyway - in matters that self alone currently views as good to agree upon) that ergo that one MUST be right? I agree with me, ergo am I infallible, unaccountable, incapable of error, and you must accept WHATEVER I say with docility as Jesus speaking? I think your rationale is very flawed and your apologetic moot.

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except none of them are in agreement with the One Church found by Christ.

Well, let’s see if it is flaw. Jesus had to agree with the Father, the HS had to be in agreement with the Father. there is One and Only One Source, therefore the Teachings cannot be in dissagreement with each other.

So, if what you believe is not in agreement with the One Church than you must be in agreement with a false Gospel which the Apostles warned the Church about.

**Zech. 9:15-16 - this is a prophecy that the sons of Zion, which is the site of the establishment of the Eucharistic sacrifice, shall drink blood like wine and be saved. This prophecy is fulfilled only by the priests of the Catholic Church.

Ezek. 2:8-10; 3:1-3 - God orders Ezekiel to open his mouth and eat the scroll which is the Word of God. This foreshadows the true Word of God, Jesus Christ, who must be consumed.**

 

[CMatt25]

except none of them are in agreement with the One Church found by Christ.

Well, let’s see if it is flaw. Jesus had to agree with the Father, the HS had to be in agreement with the Father. there is One and Only One Source, therefore the Teachings cannot be in dissagreement with each other.

So, if what you believe is not in agreement with the One Church than you must be in agreement with a false Gospel which the Apostles warned the Church about.

**Zech. 9:15-16 - this is a prophecy that the sons of Zion, which is the site of the establishment of the Eucharistic sacrifice, shall drink blood like wine and be saved. This prophecy is fulfilled only by the priests of the Catholic Church.

Ezek. 2:8-10; 3:1-3 - God orders Ezekiel to open his mouth and eat the scroll which is the Word of God. This foreshadows the true Word of God, Jesus Christ, who must be consumed.**

And you believe it is the one true because?? Of faith! You have faith only Catholic priests fulfill drinking blood like wine. Orthodox and Anglicans and Lutherans have a different faith. You have faith drink and eat were not symbolic for believe. God spoke in all sorts of parables.

 

[Rustyxcv]

Greetings M&J –
The fullness of Christ’s church subsists in the Roman Catholic Church. The various Protestant churches, to the extent that they are teaching the truth, partake of bits-and-pieces of ALL that is available in Holy Mother Church.
– Traveling down a boulevard through a suburban planned community near me, one passes the “CHURCH OF CHRIST.” A few hundred feet further down the road, one passes the “CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST.” To outward appearances they are identical, both in converted ranch house sized buildings. Around the corner there is a similar “CHURCH OF GOD IN CHRIST.” The mind boggles at the infinitesimalism!
– One Protestant group believes A, another B, another C, yet another D – but if you look closely, you will find that some form of A,B, C, & D, (all of them!) are taught by the Roman Catholic Church. They are truly “splinter” groups. Each one has but a small splinter of the whole truth, whereas the R.C. Church has the whole Cross!
– Peace! – Rusty

 

[wisdomseeker]

Greetings M&J –
The fullness of Christ’s church subsists in the Roman Catholic Church. The various Protestant churches, to the extent that they are teaching the truth, partake of bits-and-pieces of ALL that is available in Holy Mother Church.
– Traveling down a boulevard through a suburban planned community near me, one passes the “CHURCH OF CHRIST.” A few hundred feet further down the road, one passes the “CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST.” To outward appearances they are identical, both in converted ranch house sized buildings. Around the corner there is a similar “CHURCH OF GOD IN CHRIST.” The mind boggles at the infinitesimalism!
– One Protestant group believes A, another B, another C, yet another D – but if you look closely, you will find that some form of A,B, C, & D, (all of them!) are taught by the Roman Catholic Church. They are truly “splinter” groups. Each one has but a small splinter of the whole truth, whereas the R.C. Church has the whole Cross!
– Peace! – Rusty

 

[wisdomseeker]

And you believe it is the one true because?? Of faith! You have faith only Catholic priests fulfill drinking blood like wine. Orthodox and Anglicans and Lutherans have a different faith. You have faith drink and eat were not symbolic for believe. God spoke in all sorts of parables.

and where is the Parable in which Jesus says that we can believe whatever we want. without consequences? remember the Pharisees also believed in God, but apparently wasnt good enough for Jesus. if it isnt good enough for Jesus is not good enough for me.

Peace.

 

[CMatt25]

and where is the Parable in which Jesus says that we can believe whatever we want. without consequences? remember the Pharisees also believed in God, but apparently wasnt good enough for Jesus. if it isnt good enough for Jesus is not good enough for me.

Peace.

Wisdom, Jesus wasn’t always a cheerleader for elaborate rituals and rules either. But even you believe on faith. It’s all faith. Peace be with you as well.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Wisdom, Jesus wasn’t always a cheerleader for elaborate rituals and rules either. But even you believe on faith. It’s all faith. Peace be with you as well.

yep. where did you learn that Jesus was not in favor of Rituals?

did God give Rituals to the Jews? or do you think was all a mistake that God gave the Jews so much Rituals to follow? or do you really believe that Jesus was undoing everything that God did? i am not playing words with you. i am being serious. i dont play with God.

Peace.

 

[CMatt25]

yep. where did you learn that Jesus was not in favor of Rituals?

did God give Rituals to the Jews? or do you think was all a mistake that God gave the Jews so much Rituals to follow? or do you really believe that Jesus was undoing everything that God did? i am not playing words with you. i am being serious. i dont play with God.

Peace.

Col 2:14-20 doesn’t give a bad answer.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Col 2:14-20 doesn’t give a bad answer.

we Catholics dont read the Bible by picking verses here and there.

Col. 2 does not say that God was wrong by given the Jews all the Rituals and neither says that Jesus undid all that God has done. does it?

you pick a verse that sounds good if someone doesnt have understand of God’s plan.

I ask you again, do you think that God made a mistake by given the Jews all hte Rituals? do you think Jesus came to undo all that God had done for the Jews?

Peace.

 

[CMatt25]

Wisdom, I gave you an answer. But I can’t help if you don’t like it. God bless.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Wisdom, I gave you an answer. But I can’t help if you don’t like it. God bless.

No, you didnt. i am waiting for the answer from my last post.

 

[ttnacath]

I get soooo frustrated with so many different “types” of Christian faiths.

ONE GOD means He gave us ONE message of salvation

ONE GOD means He has only ONE truth

On my study and journey to the Christain faith (out of the darkness of Atheism), I was confused about which church to worship my new found belief. So many different types of Christain churches with so many differing beliefs.

church “A”…Water baptism not needed for salvation

church “B”…Water baptism needed to wash away original sins

church “C”…No such thing as Original sins

church “D”…Jesus took ALL our sins to the Cross so our salvation is “assured”

I studied and studied all the differing Protestant faiths, and Yes, they have a deep and wonderful love of God and truly wish to follow Him, but after much study on the different denominations, I almost gave up hope that there truly was a God at all. After all, there is only ONE truth, not many!

If not for the Grace of God in leading me to the Catholic Church, I may well have fallen back to my old atheist views (which would have meant Death to my soul)

If Protestants believe the Catholic Church was “derailed” at some point, then why is there not only One protestant church?, Why are there Church of Christ and Church of God and Baptist and Methodist and and and…you get the idea.

Did Jesus teach many different Truths and does God teach that, as an example, that Baptism is right for this group but wrong for the other?

Am I missing something here?

Jesus’ prayer was that all would be One as He and the Father are One. Maybe I just don’t understand the definition of ONE:shrug:

What you fail to understand is the founders of the Protestant cause had serious issues with Catholicism resulting in the “framented” Christianity.

Despite those who hate Mormonism and wish for its destruction, those you believe as Mormons do have not a issue with being “framented” and their faith is not a breakoff of Catholicism.

 

[CMatt25]

No, you didnt. i am waiting for the answer from my last post.

What is it exactly you still need answered? Perhaps I can offer some verses for you to pray over, study, compare and contrast in hopes of arriving at the answer you need? Matt 5:17 along with the ones I presented for your consideration earlier, Col 2:14-30. Wisdom, do you still do the things the Jews did which were shadows of Christ? Jn 13:34-35 and Matt 25:35-46 give great answers as to what Jesus said the Christian needed to do. I hope that helps! Peace.

 

[wisdomseeker]

What is it exactly you still need answered? Perhaps I can offer some verses for you to pray over, study, compare and contrast in hopes of arriving at the answer you need? Matt 5:17 along with the ones I presented for your consideration earlier, Col 2:14-30. Wisdom, do you still do the things the Jews did which were shadows of Christ? Jn 13:34-35 and Matt 25:35-46 give great answers as to what Jesus said the Christian needed to do. I hope that helps! Peace.

One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church. you cant use Scriptures against her. remember that. to her was given the Word of God. not to baptists, not to you, not to presbyterians, etc, etc…need to say no more.

 

[Rustyxcv]

Greetings all–
While I was in seminary preparing for the priesthood, I said to a professor that the one liturgical practice that all Christian churches and splinter groups had in common was the recitation of the “Our Father” (the Lord’s Prayer) – whether with “trespasses” or with “debts” – whether with or without the Chronicles doxology (“For thine is the kingdom . . .”) – whether “forever” or whether “forever and ever.” He told me that, tough one might think it MUST be so, given Our Lord’s instructions, I was incorrect.
– There is a denomination descended from the Brethren fellowships (I believe) in which they do not pray the “Our Father” as we know it, but rather pray a new prayer each week modeled after the petitions and the form the “Our Father.” They interpret Christ’s instruction to “pray this-wise” as meaning not to use these specific words when praying, but to pray in this style, according to this form.
– Ah, the wonder of it all! “Left to our own devices . . .”
Pax Omnes! – Rusty