Frances Swaggart's Whore of Babylon

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Father Robert Fox of the Fatima Family Apostolate has corresponded with Swaggart many times, to no avail.
As for his fondness for women not his wife several years back,
they were - ahem - paid “ladies of the evening,” if you get my drift. Moreover, it happened right about the same time that Swaggart was self-righteously blasting Jim and Tammy Faye for their personal and financial sins.

Jaypeeto3 (aka Jaypeeto4)
 
Jaypeeto3 said:
Father Robert Fox of the Fatima Family Apostolate has corresponded with Swaggart many times, to no avail.
As for his fondness for women not his wife several years back,
they were - ahem - paid “ladies of the evening,” if you get my drift. Moreover, it happened right about the same time that Swaggart was self-righteously blasting Jim and Tammy Faye for their personal and financial sins.

Jaypeeto3 (aka Jaypeeto4)
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I am actually reading Father Fox’s book “Protestant-Fundamentalism and the Born-Again Catholic.” It’s a good read. I’m thinking that lots of prayer will help the Swaggarts.
 
Dancelittleewok said:
I’m thinking that lots of prayer will help the Swaggarts.
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I’m thinking it may be the only chance they have. HEY for that matter I KNOW it’s the only chance I have:p…How about y’all pray for me AND the Swaggarts at the same time!

Peace,
+Nathan
 
I’m thinking it would be more charitable to pass over in silence the faults of the Swaggerts and respond in prayer rather than drag out all their dirty laundry in an ad hominem attack. All of us are guilty of sin, or would be guilty of greater sin than they are if we had the opportunity, energy or whatever. But for the grace of God there go I. I think prayer is probably the best response.
 
Truthstalker said:
I’m thinking it would be more charitable to pass over in silence the faults of the Swaggerts and respond in prayer rather than drag out all their dirty laundry in an ad hominem attack. All of us are guilty of sin, or would be guilty of greater sin than they are if we had the opportunity, energy or whatever. But for the grace of God there go I. I think prayer is probably the best response.
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I agree with you, but you know, when someone puts out a deliberate attack against the beliefs of others, and those attacks are not only ridiculous but hateful, it tends to make people ask, “And who is this that thinks she has the right to diss us when she and her husband have had, at best, a checkered career in religion?” It may not be right, but it’s understandable.

These people aren’t gilded saints with lily-white hands; they’re dyed-in-the-wool anti-Catholics with an attitude. They ought to be taken down a peg or two, but on the grounds of the nonsense they preach and teach, not on the grounds of their personal failings.
 
Dancelittleewok said:
Hello fellow Catholics:

Go to: jsm.org/explore.cfm/theevangelist/

Click on any of the months and read the Evangelist’s articles about “Catholicism: Modern Day Whore of Babylon.” (It should be around page 10 or 15).

Is there an appropriate response to this?

Thanks,
Dancelittleewok
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Yes. Stop sending bugs to my computer every time I try searching on that page :mad: 🙂 (Some sites seem to send bugs if one goes to them :eek: )​

 
Dancelittleewok said:
You don’t think we should complain or educate them on what we truly believe?
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You need to understand their motives. Since they have broken from the one, true, apostolic church, they cannot defend their schism by acknowledging the validity of the Catholic church. They can only justify their separation by condemning the church as having apostisized and by somehow having lost its authority.

Convincing themselves that the RCC is the “Whore of Babylon” gives them assurance in their decision not to be a part of the apostolic church.

The majority of the attacks the Protestants hurl at the RCC is not so much to attack the RCC as it is to justify their separation from it.

Thal59
 
Dancelittleewok said:
You don’t think we should complain or educate them on what we truly believe?
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No we shouldn’t. The only time it is sensible for you to explain your beliefts to anyone is if they are willing to hear you. People like these are most likely not.
 
Fr Nate,

I will pray for you. Please pray for me, too. I had the same response all ready go to.
  • Liberian
 
How mighty are the fallen? The Swaggert’s empire is fallen. How do I know? I drive by it every day here in Baton Rouge. I take courage from the actions of our Bishop Stanley Joseph Ott who was so concerned for the tension in the community back in the late 80s before Brother Jimmy had his fall that he attempted to go and speak charitably. He went and was rebuffed. I’ve seen both Swaggerts in restaurants in our area. I knew Bishop Ott and a more saintly man I ne’er knew.

Worry not, my brothers and sisters. The empire has fallen. His domitories for his “university” are now efficiency apartments. His office building for his ministry was rented to our Louisiana Department of Environmental Quality until they erected a new building and moved downtown. His huge 15 story tall building remains uncompleted as it has for the last 16 years. All of his other outbuildings have been rented out for commercial uses.

The quiet, peaceful, example of Bishop Stanley Joseph Ott (eternal rest grant unto him O Lord) remains as an example to us all. How mighty ARE the fallen?
 
Let’s focus on refuting the allegation that that ministry (and other anti-Catholics make) and not on gossiping about the past moral failings of another human being.

A couple of passages from my personal Bible reading come to mind.

Matthew 7:1 "Stop judging, that you may not be judged. 2 For as you judge, so will you be judged, and the measure with which you measure will be measured out to you.

…and this from the OT Deuterocanonical book Sirach 8:5 Shame not a repentant sinner; remember, we all are guilty.

Nothing is usually gained by discussing the falls and failings of others, particularly when they choose to oppose our Catholic faith, but great progress can be made when you guys take an allegation or assertion apart with facts from The Bible, history, and the teachings of Mother Church.
God bless!
MF
 
Hey! I have a bright idea! Let’s LOOK at one of the magazine articles and SEE what it says (smilie for lightbulb going on would be good here)!

I find in the October 2006 magazine that there is this bad, bad thing that is in the Catholic church: mysticism. See page 14. Rick Warren and others do this bad stuff too. Among the things condemned are the Stations of the Cross. We are also told the disciplines of prayer and fasting are bad. We are also told that one cannot come to Christ without the cross. Prayer and fasting apparently are a direct denial of the work of Jesus on the cross.
Mystics get off on ecstatic experiences. This is why the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon.

I are confused. I seem to remember Jesus saying, “When you fast” (not if) and “Pray .” (not prayer is optional). Somehow Catholic spirtual disciplines are a denial of the cross. Didn’t Jesus say “take up your cross and follow me” not “Jesus hauled His cross, so I can toss mine to the side”?

We are also admonished to “be sober”. After reading the article, how can we?

Would someone be kind enough to explain this to me?
 
It seems so easy to give a quick answer to a simple question. Other out there in forumland may be looking for answers.
According to my understanding the hore of babylon is probably Israel as depicted as Jerusalem because the covenant is like a marriage bond. The bride of Christ is the church which at this time was Israel. Jerusalem was unfaithful to the covenant time and again (Golden Bull !) Idolotry in the northern tribes. A reading of kings shows that many statues of idols were allowed to be in holy places. Ezekiel has more on this but now it is my bedtime so I can’t be as verbose as I would like to be.
mdcpensive1
 
Michael_Francis said:
Let’s focus on refuting the allegation that that ministry (and other anti-Catholics make) and not on gossiping about the past moral failings of another human being.

God bless!
MF
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Dear Michael: I applaud this gracious attitude, especially concerning Mrs. Swaggart, who would probably better be described as the victim of a moral failing rather than the perpetrator.

However, I personally don’t think it is wrong to point out character traits which demonstrate a lack of godliness and holiness in addition to the actual theological discussion.

With that background, I have heard, but don’t personally have the time or inclination to investigate, that Frances Swaggart’s series of articles “Catholicism: The New Babylon” are basically a word for word plagiarism of another book called “Two Babylons.”

If that is the case, whether the content of the articles is true or not, that would demonstrate some degree of dishonesty on Mrs. Swaggart’s part, or else that she is not sufficiently educated to know how to give credit to the work of other authors.
 
Swaggart. Well, there’s a name I haven’t heard in ages. I didn’t realize they were still around. I wouldn’t worry too much about the impact of their site. I don’t think they have the large audience they once had.
 
I devoted a chapter to Jimmy Swaggart in my book “Catholicism and Fundamentalism,” which appeared in 1988. The years since have not been kind to Swaggart–not because of anything I said but because the guy self-destructed.

I went to his web site and looked at the PDFs of his monthly newsletter. What most surprised me were the photos of him–much older looking, with once-reddish hair now gray. We all age, and usually not as well as we might wish, but he does seem to have aged more rapidly than normal.

As for the series on Catholicism by his wife, Frances, I’m morally certain that she has had little or no part in writing it. Jimmy Swaggart himself is no writer and never has been, and I never had reason to think that his wife was much brighter or more competent.

This isn’t to say the series on Catholicism is much, but it’s clear that a lot of work has gone into it. The current installment, for example, discusses Catholicism’s take on mysticism, and Teresa of Avila’s works, among others, are mentioned. I can’t imagine Frances Swaggart sitting down with the saint’s writings and figuring out where they’re “wrong.”

No, it must be that some low-level fellow in the Swaggart ministry has put together these articles, and then Frances’s name has been stuck on them. The articles are grossly in error, but they will seem “scholarly” to the folks who follow Swaggart. I just don’t think Frances has it in her (knowledge or patience) to put together such a long series (so far, seventeen wordy installments).
 
I laughed when I read your message because it brought back a memory which has amused me for the last forty years.

Jehova’s Witnesses often knocked on our door. One day a very sweet, very old lady knocked and asked if I wanted to buy a book she was selling. It was a JW publication. I said thank you very much but I was a catholic and preferred to read the literature of my own church. She brightened up and gave me a warm smile. Eagerly she opened the book to a certain page and pointed out a drawing on the page and said–“See, this book is for everyone. It even has a picture of the Pope.” There on the page was a drawing of Pope John XXXIII. On his tiara was the number 666 and the caption read, “THE SCARLET WHORE OF BABYLON”.
Ya gotta love 'em.
Dolores
 
That series of articles actually began back in July of 2005. You can go back and look up the PDFs for that issue of “The Evangelist” on page 15, and there is also some other assertions on page 30 by her son Donnie.

Have fun guys! 👍
MF
 
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