Francis MacNutt

[RB2]

After reading an article on Spirit Daily about Frances Macnutt, I was very excited to get his book on the Practice of Healing Prayer. Mr. Macnutt also has a healing ministry and teaches people how to pray for healing. I contacted them and told them I would love it if they could pray over me and my dad, but we’re over here in California, they are in Florida. A lady from this ministry suggested a “healing room” in California called Camarillo Healing Rooms. It looks like its sponsored by a protestant church. Are we, as Catholics, allowed to participate in something like this?

Beware of what you read on SpiritDaily.com and Spirit-Digest.com, they are Catholic news aggregators and throw discernment to the wayside in favor of quantity and freshness. Most of their readership lack serious discernment and these sites provide none. So if it sticks to the wall it gets linked on the site. Michael H. Brown may actually have some discernment but he doesnt share it and the result is SpiritDaily. Spirit-Digest.com is hardly any better but links to liberal Catholic sites that trash regularly the spokespeople of the ‘new evangelization’(CatholicAnswers/ EWTN crew, RealCatholicTV et al). …But its served hot and fresh!

On another note:
I am part of a group that hosts healing masses in Costa Mesa ,CA , St John Baptist. We are having Fr. Michael Barry in March who is amongst the most gifted of those who do healing masses–might I dare say the most gifted. PM me if your interested. You might also check out St. Angela Merici in Brea,CA who has healing masses regularly(once a month, reliably) and host all the gifted priests for this ministry from LA/Orange Co. and more-- 12 months of the year.

 

[Lucky_Scrunchy]

Thanks to all. My dad lives in la Canada CA. Do you know Fr.barry’s schedule? I may not be able to convince him to go, however if the location is closer to him I may have better luck.

 

[Alan55]

I don’t really understand the hesitancy regarding Francis MacNutt’s ministry. While he is no longer a Catholic priest, he is a Catholic in good standing. He has been involved in the ministry for several decades now and is very well regarded.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

I don’t really understand the hesitancy regarding Francis MacNutt’s ministry. While he is no longer a Catholic priest, he is a Catholic in good standing. He has been involved in the ministry for several decades now and is very well regarded.

I do not know him. Can someone explain to me how a priest can no longer be a priest, and still be a Catholic in good standing?

 

[RB2]

Scour your local church bulletins and your dioscean newspaper for healing masses in your area. Most churches have their weekly bulletins online, see which ones make space for such announcements on a regular basis.
Usually healing masses in one church are announced in other church bulletins also.
Some church secretaries dont even know how to work the software for changes to their bulletins, moving things around, so announcements like these are not carried in various churches for this and other reasons.
The Fr Barry stuff I did not address.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I do not know him. Can someone explain to me how a priest can no longer be a priest, and still be a Catholic in good standing?

A priest who properly applies for and and is laicized is returned to the lay state. They are still a priest but they are released from all priestly ministry and are able to marry.

It is my understanding that when this happens the “ex”-priest is no longer allowed to work within any ministry in the Church, so I do not know how this man is able to conduct a healing ministry except that it would not be attached to the Church. Hence their directing someone to a protestant group rather than to the Catholic Church.

 

[RB2]

I don’t really understand the hesitancy regarding Francis MacNutt’s ministry. While he is no longer a Catholic priest, he is a Catholic in good standing. He has been involved in the ministry for several decades now and is very well regarded.

‘Catholic in good standing’ ??
Francis MacNutts site says many things and there are statements of his concerning the Catholic Church in the about page. But they are a bit on the ambigous side. It seems his illicit marriage outside the church was reperformed, made licit, eventually, i.e. he came back to the church. But beyond that, and many years later are what appears to be slyly ambigious statements concerning him being friendly or on good terms with the local bishop. He has made no concrete statements as to where he is at, it is much stated ambigiously maybe to ensure the freedom of his side business which is a ‘christian enterprise’–a healing house. I was interested in one of his books but after research figured there were better, less ambigious Catholic sources for what I was after. One shouldn’t be reading with a jaundiced eye on the outlook for slanted views, so I passed.

A simple statement saying that he is in communion with the Church since 19xx would have sufficed.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

A priest who properly applies for and and is laicized is returned to the lay state. They are still a priest but they are released from all priestly ministry and are able to marry.

It is my understanding that when this happens the “ex”-priest is no longer allowed to work within any ministry in the Church, so I do not know how this man is able to conduct a healing ministry except that it would not be attached to the Church. Hence their directing someone to a protestant group rather than to the Catholic Church.

Thank you!

There are so many RC healing ministries, why (no disrespect intended) use a protestant one? (I am asking aloud, not at you, amico mio)

 

[RB2]

Francis MacNutt did seperate from the Church and operate outside of it for sometime with a christian ministry to include a wife outside the church. Without concrete simple statements, you just dont know where he is at.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

Francis MacNutt did seperate from the Church and operate outside of it for sometime with a christian ministry to include a wife outside the church. Without concrete simple statements, you just dont know where he is at.

Yup. Ergo, proceed with caution.

 

[ajaxbogs]

All prayer is honored by God, Lucky. God doesn’t expect us to make a transocean journey to Lourdes, if someone nearby is endowed by His Spirit to pray for healing. Remember, a baptized Protestant does have the Holy Spirit, even though they are not 100% in communion with us. God can likewise bestow that charism on anyone who lives in communion with Him in the Spirit.

Be selective though, if you are able, and see if you can find out something about this group before you go. If it is a prayer service, and not a liturgy or such, it could be God who leads you there. Pray to Him and ask that He give you peace about it to confirm His direction. If it does not come, then don’t go.

Lucky, Sirach2 has given you the best advise on this thread!!

Prior to my Catholic conversion, I went to a San Diego Vineyard Church (Protestant Charismatic) where Francis held a conference. It was awesome how the Holy Spirit moved and how many healings happened. It was the same person (Holy Spirit) who directed me home to Mother Church. Even though it was over 20 years ago, I was very “Catholic friendly” and don’t recall seeing or hearing anything that was taught or happened against Church teachings.

Definitely pray about it and if there is a check in your spirit and you don’t have peace about it, don’t go to any non-Catholic service. But if you’re solidly established in your faith (i.e. regularly taking part in the sacraments) and you sense the Spirit leading, go for it and bring some of that impartation back home to your parish.

 

[delight]

I am new to this and have a question for Pane Rose as to the prayer recipients receiving Holy Eucharist after the prayer sessions. How is that done?

 

[Maryann_C]

Lucky, Sirach2 has given you the best advise on this thread!!

Prior to my Catholic conversion, I went to a San Diego Vineyard Church (Protestant Charismatic) where Francis held a conference. It was awesome how the Holy Spirit moved and how many healings happened. It was the same person (Holy Spirit) who directed me home to Mother Church. Even though it was over 20 years ago, I was very “Catholic friendly” and don’t recall seeing or hearing anything that was taught or happened against Church teachings.

Definitely pray about it and if there is a check in your spirit and you don’t have peace about it, don’t go to any non-Catholic service. But if you’re solidly established in your faith (i.e. regularly taking part in the sacraments) and you sense the Spirit leading, go for it and bring some of that impartation back home to your parish.

I am so thankful to CAF. I have not posted here for a very long time because I was simply too busy but recently I have felt a movement of what I hope is the Holy Spirit and not a counterfeit- discernment prayers please- that I may be led to praying for healing for people in more concrete ways than just praying for them as part of my normal prayers. Long story but since I am a convert I am proceeding with EXTREAM caution. I recently stumbled on a book called something like " The crime that was almost committed" by McNutt - honestly I had never heard of him even though when I first entered the Catholic Church officially in 2008 I was briefly led to the charismatic movement in Indiana and OH. My caution about being deceived by ‘feelings and experiences’ pulled me back. Here it is again.

This book was written by him in 2012 I believe - it sort of is a history of the ‘charismatic movement’ Having also just read both of fr Armuth’s books - The Story of an Exorcist and More stories I am again cautioned because he rightly ( and I had forgotten) points out that physical ‘healing’ can be a counterfeit otherwise there would be no success for the demonic led ‘witch doctors’ also when Moses went to Pharaoh and performed miracles , pharaoh’s magicians could do the same. So manifestations of physical healing alone is NOT good enough for me. It is the fruit of a life changed that is the witness. As I read his book and how he said that some of the early ministers that were involved in the 20th century were still KKK sympathizers my heart said - then how can their gift be from God? However McNutt later acknowledges in his book that it is the fruit of the Spirit that point to where the gift comes from - "joy , peace, patience, charity " etc. As I read his book I realize that there is quite probably a dual movement of spirit healings that have gone on one from the HOly Spirit and another from the evil spirit. After all our Lord told us that when He returns that even the elect will be deceived if that is possible. I have always asked my self “how could that possibly be” well for one because the great deceiver comes - as holy Scripture says- as an angel of light performing many wonders. Again this tells me that just to follow the outward signs is not enough- healings ALONE do NOT prove that the ministry is from God . It is for this reason that I believe there are others on this string - like me who have a check in their spirit on this matter due to the fact that it appears that McNutt had made VOWS of celibacy to GOD that he seems to have later broken by marrying. I too would want to know CLEARLY if he has been given absolution and is now in good standing with Holy Mother Church. I am hoping that there is a priest in this forum that can clearly answer this.

 

[eschator83]

I too have recently felt very strongly called to seek better understanding of the efficacy of prayer in healing, and the Church’s view. Pope Francis has recently written to confirm his belief and support in the development (he and Benedict XVI have used words like transposition and transformation as approximate synomyms–I like to think of them as relonyms) of Catholic Faith, which seems nearly contradictory to the concept of a deposit of faith. I think each of these aspects is historically true, but I think it has been necessary throughout history for the Church to generally tolerate, albeit reluctantly, quite contradictory views, written as well as spoken, in many aspects of Faith.
My Dad, a brother and sister, and most recently my Mom have all died of cancer–in separate forms–leaving myself and one other sister, still determined in Faith in God’s Love, Mercy, and Power, but uncertain about how we should have been praying.
Over the years I’ve been given the two McNutt healing books discussed in posts above, and several others, including two by a devout Catholic nurse who worked with him, and also as nurse in the hospital of a town next to my hometown, Barbara Shlemon. I encourage you to find these. I think they will encourage you in prayer.
MacNutt, who was a Dominican when he wrote Healing in 1974, began the book expressing excitement that on January 1, 1974 the Sacrament of Healing was promulgated (modified). Yet surely he and many Catholics were and are disappointed that the request of Grace for restoration of health is conditional–“if it is conducive to the salvation” of the soul Catechism 1532). Also the language of Catechism 1673 is disappointing: “treating (illness) is the concern of medical science,” which thereby seeks to eliminate exorcism in any aspect of mental illness.
I don’t think anyone could attest to any sanctions against Macnutt unless they were publicly announced, and I see no evidence of that.

 

[ajaxbogs]

I too have recently felt very strongly called to seek better understanding of the efficacy of prayer in healing, and the Church’s view…

My Dad, a brother and sister, and most recently my Mom have all died of cancer–in separate forms–leaving myself and one other sister, still determined in Faith in God’s Love, Mercy, and Power, but uncertain about how we should have been praying.
Over the years I’ve been given the two McNutt healing books discussed in posts above, and several others, including two by a devout Catholic nurse who worked with him, and also as nurse in the hospital of a town next to my hometown, Barbara Shlemon. I encourage you to find these. I think they will encourage you in prayer…

I don’t think anyone could attest to any sanctions against Macnutt unless they were publicly announced, and I see no evidence of that.

:thumbsup.

Its very hard to imagine the pain you’ve endured & I appreciate your openness in sharing.

Here’s a link for a Vatican document on healing by (then) Cardinal Ratzinger - (vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20001123_istruzione_en.html). It encourages prayers for healing by both clergy & laity & gives guidelines, especially for clergy in a liturgical setting. It also describes sickness as evil! McNutt’s books are indeed inspiring. I was touched how he described how divine healing was used greatly in the first three hundred years of the Church (fm his book Healing Reawakening) I pray that our Lord uses you as His instrument in bringing healing to others, even as you experienced these losses. Blessings.

"These signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will drive out demons,… They will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”MK 16:17,18

 

[eschator83]

Thanks for comment and important link–I always have to read Ben16 several times and still usually have trouble understanding. I wonder if for some reason German thought often doesn’t translate well into English? This link I was unaware of and will re-read with much interest. Sorry to be so slow to acknowledge it, I seldom remember to look back at my old posts.
I’m still struggling to get through the “Healing” book–it seems to me there are many unwarranted negative generalizations.
My primary questions:
-do people rightfully claim to have power themselves, or is retained for use by Holy Spirit?
-is God probably influenced by the prayer of many people? (based on what sources?)