Francis of Assisi: firmly committed to the doctrine: "outside the Church, there is no salvation"

[603304529]

Francis of Assisi is one of the most remarkable saints of the Church.

Because of his great love for the poor, his love for animals, and all of God’s creatures, it is a common mistake for modern Catholics to regard St Francis as soft and weak.; a kind of 13th century flower-child who would favour a non-confrontational religious indifferentism over a knightly defense of the Catholic faith.

The modernists thus portray him as a kind of patron for the effeminate ecumenism now gripping churchmen worldwide. This portrayal could no be more inaccurate.

Saint Francis of Assisi was firmly committed to the doctrine “outside the Church there is no salvation”.

St Francis was not an apostle of interreligious dialogue, but an apostle of Christ who preached the Gospel without compromise. He did this for the salvation of those souls who were already Catholic, but had fallen away from the Gospel ideal; and for the salvation of infidels and non-believers, whom he knew would be lost if they did not embrace Christ, and His One True Church. In one of his oldest “Admonitions” to the Brothers in his order, St Francis said the following regarding those who do not accept Catholic Truth:

*“All, who have seen Jesus in the Flesh, but have not seen Him after the Spirit, and in His Divinity, and have not believed that He was really the Son of God, are doomed. Also those are doomed who see the Sacrament of the Body of Christ, which is consecrated with the words of the Lord on the altar, and by the hand of the priest, in the form of bread and wine, but do not see It in the Spirit and Divinity and have not believed that It really is Our Lord Jesus Christ’s most holy Body and Blood.”
*
Those who thus try to depict St Francis of Assisi an apostle of Vatican II’s new brand of dialogue and ecumenism do not tell the truth. St Francis was not a liberal Catholic who smiled on false creeds, but knew full well that Our Lord Jesus Christ found One Church for the salvation of souls, and that those who reject this Church place their salvation in grave peril. His was not a sentimental charity, but a burning love rooted in God’s Truth.

(from a flier included in Catholic Family News, June 09 edition)

 

[RyanML]

Francis of Assisi is one of the most remarkable saints of the Church.

Because of his great love for the poor, his love for animals, and all of God’s creatures, it is a common mistake for modern Catholics to regard St Francis as soft and weak.; a kind of 13th century flower-child who would favour a non-confrontational religious indifferentism over a knightly defense of the Catholic faith.

The modernists thus portray him as a kind of patron for the effeminate ecumenism now gripping churchmen worldwide. This portrayal could no be more inaccurate.

Saint Francis of Assisi was firmly committed to the doctrine “outside the Church there is no salvation”.

St Francis was not an apostle of interreligious dialogue, but an apostle of Christ who preached the Gospel without compromise. He did this for the salvation of those souls who were already Catholic, but had fallen away from the Gospel ideal; and for the salvation of infidels and non-believers, whom he knew would be lost if they did not embrace Christ, and His One True Church. In one of his oldest “Admonitions” to the Brothers in his order, St Francis said the following regarding those who do not accept Catholic Truth:

*“All, who have seen Jesus in the Flesh, but have not seen Him after the Spirit, and in His Divinity, and have not believed that He was really the Son of God, are doomed. Also those are doomed who see the Sacrament of the Body of Christ, which is consecrated with the words of the Lord on the altar, and by the hand of the priest, in the form of bread and wine, but do not see It in the Spirit and Divinity and have not believed that It really is Our Lord Jesus Christ’s most holy Body and Blood.”
*
Those who thus try to depict St Francis of Assisi an apostle of Vatican II’s new brand of dialogue and ecumenism do not tell the truth. St Francis was not a liberal Catholic who smiled on false creeds, but knew full well that Our Lord Jesus Christ found One Church for the salvation of souls, and that those who reject this Church place their salvation in grave peril. His was not a sentimental charity, but a burning love rooted in God’s Truth.

(from a flier included in Catholic Family News, June 09 edition)

I know what you mean. My mother is a nominal protestant and has had a statue of St. Francis in her garden for years. She made sure to get one without a rosary because she didn’t want one that was “too Catholic”. I have often reminded her that there is a lot more to St. Francis than just being “nature boy”. Would that more Catholics had the conviction of the truth which St. Francis so fervently preached.

 

[ncjohn]

While Francis was most certainly an ardent proponent of the Catholic faith, and did in fact preach the gospel always, the passage you cite does not address anything beyond those already familiar with the Catholic faith and the way that they lived it. Anything less than full devotion to God was simply unacceptable to him.

I am not sure which “version” of NSOC you are proposing, the idea that salvation only comes through the Church or the Feeneyite idea that nobody who isn’t “physically” within the Church can be saved–nor will I get involved in another incarnation of that debate–but I would beg to differ with any portrayal of St. Francis favoring the latter.

Peace,

 

[RyanML]

While Francis was most certainly an ardent proponent of the Catholic faith, and did in fact preach the gospel always, the passage you cite does not address anything beyond those already familiar with the Catholic faith and the way that they lived it. Anything less than full devotion to God was simply unacceptable to him.

I am not sure which “version” of NSOC you are proposing, the idea that salvation only comes through the Church or the Feeneyite idea that nobody who isn’t “physically” within the Church can be saved–nor will I get involved in another incarnation of that debate–but I would beg to differ with any portrayal of St. Francis favoring the latter.

Peace,

I disagree with the Feeneyite interpretation of EENS, but I don’t think it’s the different interpretations that cause so much ire from traditional Catholics. I think its the modern ecumenical practices which seem to give a very indifferentist impression to other religions. Who is and isn’t saved is ultimately up to God and we know that souls can be saved despite their false or erroneous beliefs. But this does not in any way excuse us from witnessing the Faith. But that’s what dialogue has degenerated into. We share what we have in common and don’t worry about our disagreements. The problem is, it’s the disagreements that may put souls in jeopardy. If we have been given the gift of faith, we must preach the truth, in season and out of season, and always in charity.

 

[603304529]

I disagree with the Feeneyite interpretation of EENS, but I don’t think it’s the different interpretations that cause so much ire from traditional Catholics. I think its the modern ecumenical practices which seem to give a very indifferentist impression to other religions. Who is and isn’t saved is ultimately up to God and we know that souls can be saved despite their false or erroneous beliefs. But this does not in any way excuse us from witnessing the Faith. But that’s what dialogue has degenerated into. We share what we have in common and don’t worry about our disagreements. The problem is, it’s the disagreements that may put souls in jeopardy. If we have been given the gift of faith, we must preach the truth, in season and out of season, and always in charity.

Good man Ryan.

 

[ncjohn]

II think its the modern ecumenical practices which seem to give a very indifferentist impression to other religions. Who is and isn’t saved is ultimately up to God and we know that souls can be saved despite their false or erroneous beliefs.

I have no problem with this whatsoever and would fully agree that indifferentism is unacceptable. Since the OP has commended you on your post, it appears that at least there is general agreement here that Francis would not have been supporting a Feeneyite approach.

Peace,

 

[Eucharisted]

Saint Francis was actually talking about heretics. Heresy is disbelief in a saving truth by a Christian. Two saving truths would be Jesus is God and Jesus is in the Holy Eucharist. Heresy is a mortal sin, and those who persist in mortal sin go to Hell.

 

[603304529]

Saint Francis was actually talking about heretics. Heresy is disbelief in a saving truth by a Christian. Two saving truths would be Jesus is God and Jesus is in the Holy Eucharist. Heresy is a mortal sin, and those who persist in mortal sin go to Hell.

Heresies like Islam.

 

[Eucharisted]

Heresies like Islam.

Islam is a religion, not a heresy. It might have started as a heresy, but it is now a religion.

And the topic of Islam is for another thread, not this one.

 

[RyanML]

Islam is a religion, not a heresy. It might have started as a heresy, but it is now a religion.

And the topic of Islam is for another thread, not this one.

A heresy is a an opinion or doctrine which is contrary to orthodox belief. Since much of what Islam believes is contrary to orthodox belief, I would think we could call it a heresy. Or perhaps it would be more appropriate to say that Islam is a heretical religion since it is a set of beliefs rather than just one specific doctrine. Islam isn’t entirely in error. It does have some shadows of truth.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

A heresy is a an opinion or doctrine which is contrary to orthodox belief. Since much of what Islam believes is contrary to orthodox belief, I would think we could call it a heresy.

That is not the correct definition of heresy.

Here is how St Thomas Aquinas defines it.

St. Thomas (II-II:11:1) defines heresy: “a species of infidelity in men who, having professed the faith of Christ, corrupt its dogmas”.

This is found in the Catholic Encyclopedia.

Here is a link to the full article: Heresy

 

[RyanML]

That is not the correct definition of heresy.

Here is how St Thomas Aquinas defines it.

St. Thomas (II-II:11:1) defines heresy: “a species of infidelity in men who, having professed the faith of Christ, corrupt its dogmas”.

This is found in the Catholic Encyclopedia.

Here is a link to the full article: Heresy

Thank you for the correction. I suppose it would have been wiser to rely on the Angelic Doctor rather than wikipedia, lol.

 

[Ocarm]

A heresy is a an opinion or doctrine which is contrary to orthodox belief. Since much of what Islam believes is contrary to orthodox belief, I would think we could call it a heresy.

Typically a heresy is a deviation from dogmatic teachings by someone who professes to be Christian - defined by St Thomas Aquinas as " a species of unbelief, belonging to those who profess the Christian faith, but corrupt its dogmas".

See the online version of the Summa Theologica at:

newadvent.org/summa/3011.htm

The quote comes from the last line of the first paragraph beginning ‘I answer that’. The whole article is an important statement on the nature of heresy, and its limitations as a concept.

Since your looser definition would include pretty much anyone who is not a mainstream Catholic, I would say its too broad a use of the term.

 

[Eucharisted]

Don’t be fools! Rely not on men but on the Church for the definition of heresy. From the Code of Canon Law:

Can. 751 Heresy is the obstinate denial or obstinate doubt after the reception of baptism of some truth which is to be believed by divine and Catholic faith

 

[RyanML]

Don’t be fools! Rely not on men but on the Church for the definition of heresy. From the Code of Canon Law:

St. Thomas Aquinas is a Doctor of the Church so I hardly think it foolish to rely on his teachings. It seems the common understanding of heresy is that it is a denial of some aspect of the Faith after baptism. This being the case, Islam would not properly be called a heresy. It’s a rather silly point in my opinion since Islam is a false and erroneous religion no matter what label you put on it.

 

[ncjohn]

Saint Francis was actually talking about heretics. Heresy is disbelief in a saving truth by a Christian. Two saving truths would be Jesus is God and Jesus is in the Holy Eucharist. Heresy is a mortal sin, and those who persist in mortal sin go to Hell.

Francis was addressing much more than heresy. He was addressing any type of lukewarm appproach to Christianity that did not put God above all. While he may have understood that most were not gifted with his level of vision and devotion, he had little tolerance for those who would not strive to the greatest of their ability toward God.

Peace,