Franciscan religious question... anyone?

[BlestOne]

We have a Franciscan sister at our parish… and she baffles me. Can somebody please help??? Here are my questions…

She always replaces the words Father or Him with the word God during mass

She works as a secretary for a Protestant Church

She used to work as a school teacher at the parish school but thankfully no longer does… (let’s just say we had alot of problems with her and what she told my dd)

Before that she was the recreational director at a secular “retirement” home…???

Is this stuff normal for Franciscans? The rest of our religious are Dominicans and work within the parish or school… this is what I am used to…

 

[srmarymichael]

I am a Franciscan Sister.

Let’s just say that I don’t know any Franciscans that do those things (I’ve met a few along the way). From what I can gather, there are people in many Orders that do things like you’re describing. They began things like this after Vatican II and are still doing it or have passed it on to others.

The Franciscan Order has many branches. Our Order, for example, is independant from all the other Franciscans. You cannot stereotype. Does that make sense?

There are probably Dominicans and many other Orders who have similar branches.

God bless you!

 

[BlestOne]

I am a Franciscan Sister.

Let’s just say that I don’t know any Franciscans that do those things (I’ve met a few along the way). From what I can gather, there are people in many Orders that do things like you’re describing. They began things like this after Vatican II and are still doing it or have passed it on to others.

The Franciscan Order has many branches. Our Order, for example, is independant from all the other Franciscans. You cannot stereotype. Does that make sense?

There are probably Dominicans and many other Orders who have similar branches.

God bless you!

Thank you for responding Sr Mary Michael… I thought it was hokey when I said something about how it bothers me to hear it during mass and the religious ed director just shrugged and said… Ehhhh… she is a Franciscan… like that was an excuse to change the Nicene creed… I am glad to hear that is wrong…

Yes I do understand about the many branches…

Again… thanks so much!

 

[srmarymichael]

You’re welcome!

 

[ack]

Many religious orders such as the Franciscans and Dominicans consist of multiple congregations. Not all of these congregations share common leadership – the “Franciscan” or “Dominican” name represents the fact that they follow common statues and a rule of life (approved by the Pope) seeking to fulfill the vision of their founder. But the congregations are independent.

I know of very solid and very liberal congregations in both the Franciscan and Dominican order.

We have a Franciscan sister at our parish… and she baffles me. Can somebody please help??? Here are my questions…

She always replaces the words Father or Him with the word God during mass

She works as a secretary for a Protestant Church

She used to work as a school teacher at the parish school but thankfully no longer does… (let’s just say we had alot of problems with her and what she told my dd)

Before that she was the recreational director at a secular “retirement” home…???

Is this stuff normal for Franciscans? The rest of our religious are Dominicans and work within the parish or school… this is what I am used to…

 

[BlestOne]

OK… Thanks to all who answered… now for the hard question… is it OK to replace words like that during mass? Personally, I don’t think so and I find that most often when people try to change things they seem to have a problem submitting themselves to the Church. Am I right or wrong?

Also… Why does this sister work for a Protestant Church? It isn’t even a mainstream one… it is called Bethany Park and they are anti-Catholic. I had to pull my son out of boyscouts there because their pastor was using the troop to evangelize to the boys and he thought nothing of the faith they already had.

At our parish we have mostly Dominicans and this one Franciscan. She lives in an apartment instead of at the convent. It is a shame because we have plenty of room for her there and she does go there for some things, like last night I went to a open house and prayer service at the convent and she was there as a guest not participating in the prayer service.

 

[drforjc]

OK… Thanks to all who answered… now for the hard question… is it OK to replace words like that during mass? Personally, I don’t think so and I find that most often when people try to change things they seem to have a problem submitting themselves to the Church. Am I right or wrong?

Also… Why does this sister work for a Protestant Church? It isn’t even a mainstream one… it is called Bethany Park and they are anti-Catholic. I had to pull my son out of boyscouts there because their pastor was using the troop to evangelize to the boys and he thought nothing of the faith they already had.

At our parish we have mostly Dominicans and this one Franciscan. She lives in an apartment instead of at the convent. It is a shame because we have plenty of room for her there and she does go there for some things, like last night I went to a open house and prayer service at the convent and she was there as a guest not participating in the prayer service.

As to your first question: No, it is not permitted to change those words. The instrument Redemptionis Sacramentum is very clear on this:

[59.] The reprobated practice by which Priests, Deacons or the faithful here and there alter or vary at will the texts of the Sacred Liturgy that they are charged to pronounce, must cease. For in doing thus, they render the celebration of the Sacred Liturgy unstable, and not infrequently distort the authentic meaning of the Liturgy.

 

[leonie]

In our diocese, we have liberal Francisican nuns and very conservative ones. Our orders with the liberal nuns all have very white hair. And. our conservative ones are filled with young women as well as older ones.

I think God blesses faithful orders with many vocations while those who are more prideful (though often good intentioned) die out.

It’s probably always been that way.

 

[BlestOne]

OK… so any idea why it is OK for her to be employed by a Protestant church that is anti-Catholic?

And why doesn’t she live with the Dominicans? Is there some rule that they can’t live together?

 

[mercygate]

I am a Franciscan Sister.

Let’s just say that I don’t know any Franciscans that do those things (I’ve met a few along the way). From what I can gather, there are people in many Orders that do things like you’re describing. They began things like this after Vatican II and are still doing it or have passed it on to others.

The Franciscan Order has many branches. Our Order, for example, is independant from all the other Franciscans. You cannot stereotype. Does that make sense?

There are probably Dominicans and many other Orders who have similar branches.

God bless you!

Exactly. The Franciscan Sisters in their community’s retirement home, where I attend Mass on Saturday mornings ALL say "God’ instead of “Him” or “His” when referring to God.

Many of those Sisters, if you speak with them privately, seem to suffer this with a martyr’s patience, while others clearly believe it is “more inclusive.” Since the average age is around 80, maybe there’s hope for the future.

This is definitely not a “Franciscan” thing. You find it everywhere. Talk to my pastor!

 

[LilyM]

OK… so any idea why it is OK for her to be employed by a Protestant church that is anti-Catholic?

And why doesn’t she live with the Dominicans? Is there some rule that they can’t live together?

You said she works there as a secretary - I’m presuming her work there is of a secular rather than religious nature.

Depending on what exactly she does, it may not be all that much different to the many Catholic musicians who will be engaged to play for Protestant church services or vice versa. Or the many non-Catholic teachers who teach maths, science, literature or what have you (though obviously not religious ed) in Catholic schools and vice versa. Or the many protestants who I know work with St Vincent de Paul, or Catholics who likewise volunteer with protestant-run soup kitchens or homeless shelters. Some of the above including, in my experience, Catholic nuns.

People in such situations are there to use their God-given talents to do a job, volunteer or paid, their faith is tangential to doing the job, and doing that job doesn’t imply that they subscribe to the beliefs of the church they do it for.

Ultimately, of course, it’s OK for her to do it because her job is a matter for herself and her superiors within the order to decide upon. Presumably they know where she’s working and what she’s doing there and have said it’s OK

As for living with the Dominicans - why should she? She isn’t Dominican any more than I am, and much as I respect them I wouldn’t necessarily want to live with them, nor would they want me to live with them. Besides which, I don’t imagine most convents are profitable concerns - and that being the case they almost certainly have no ability to support nuns from outside their own congregations.

 

[leonie]

OK… so any idea why it is OK for her to be employed by a Protestant church that is anti-Catholic?

And why doesn’t she live with the Dominicans? Is there some rule that they can’t live together?

If she’s employed by an outside agency, it’s with her superior’s permission. A little odd…

Is she trying to evangelize? Be ecumenical?

I wonder what she would say if you asked her…

Probably the Dominicans have a rule that differs from her community. It isn’t her charism.

We have several Francisican sisters in archdiocese that don’t live in a community, but work in parishes.

 

[mercygate]

If she’s employed by an outside agency, it’s with her superior’s permission. A little odd…

Is she trying to evangelize? Be ecumenical?

I wonder what she would say if you asked her…

Probably the Dominicans have a rule that differs from her community. It isn’t her charism.

We have several Francisican sisters in archdiocese that don’t live in a community, but work in parishes.

Religious often work in non-Catholic settings simply to pay the rent.

 

[Michael_David]

I have known Franciscan Nuns/Brothers in parochial school, and after in a number of parishes.

I see this different then living-working-teaching in only the Catholic circles. Where do most converts to Catholicism come from? Not in the circle of those already Catholic. Wouldn’t this be classed as missionary work? Every religious (in an order or not) is suggested to do this type of mission work. Where one goes to do it is where they are doing it, especially if the world they are in knows they are a Nun, or a Catholic.

My congratulations to her for her out-reach.

 

[BlestOne]

I have known Franciscan Nuns/Brothers in parochial school, and after in a number of parishes.

I see this different then living-working-teaching in only the Catholic circles. Where do most converts to Catholicism come from? Not in the circle of those already Catholic. Wouldn’t this be classed as missionary work? Every religious (in an order or not) is suggested to do this type of mission work. Where one goes to do it is where they are doing it, especially if the world they are in knows they are a Nun, or a Catholic.

My congratulations to her for her out-reach.

I don’t think so… she is working directly for the pastor from what she told me. I don’t think that she would be evangelizing the pastor of an anti-Catholic Church… not to mention, she has stopped wearing her crucifix and is wearing a necklace that looks more like an episcopalian shield than anything else.

 

[Michael_David]

Reading St. Paul’s Epistles, he says he becomes like those he is trying to convert so as to convert at least some of them.

And yes, the Nuns at the school have the principal for their boss… but he is not who they are working for. I am fairly close to a Nun with over 50 years as a teacher, and yes, I will give that Nun the benefit of the doubt as one can only view her from the outside (not what is going on inside).

As Christ was called on the carpet for socializing with sinners and prostitutes, the outcasts of (high) society. He even picked a tax collector for one of the 12.

Looks can be deceiving…

 

[1234]

Maybe she’s burrowing from within…

Maybe this job pays twice what any comparable Catholic job would pay if it were available, and she is required by her Franciscan congregation not only to support herself but also to give any leftover to the congregation.

If her job and what she does or does not wear or where she lives bother you, why don’t you ask her about it??

She could probably give you some very straightforward answers.

 

[BlestOne]

Maybe she’s burrowing from within…

Maybe this job pays twice what any comparable Catholic job would pay if it were available, and she is required by her Franciscan congregation not only to support herself but also to give any leftover to the congregation.

If her job and what she does or does not wear or where she lives bother you, why don’t you ask her about it??

She could probably give you some very straightforward answers.

I was trying to ascertain if there was a reason for this before I ask her and sound accusatory… if there is a valid reason, then I am fine with it. It is more of a curiosity thing about the job… my main concern is that she also works with RCIA and she has said some things that would lead me to believe that she is confused about Church doctrine and I would like to clear it up before she says the wrong thing to a candidate.

 

[LilyM]

I was trying to ascertain if there was a reason for this before I ask her and sound accusatory… if there is a valid reason, then I am fine with it. It is more of a curiosity thing about the job… my main concern is that she also works with RCIA and she has said some things that would lead me to believe that she is confused about Church doctrine and I would like to clear it up before she says the wrong thing to a candidate.

You certainly have every right to discuss what she says in RCIA - you can probably do so without bringing up her other workplace. Although you could bring it up in a casual way, maybe ask her what she does at the other church and what led her to work there, ask her if her new insignia has any special meaning and so on.

 

[BlestOne]

You certainly have every right to discuss what she says in RCIA - you can probably do so without bringing up her other workplace. Although you could bring it up in a casual way, maybe ask her what she does at the other church and what led her to work there, ask her if her new insignia has any special meaning and so on.

Excellent idea… Thanks… I was just afraid I would sound snotty instead of interested… I have a very nasal voice and people think it is an attitude rather than just my voice…