Z
zaida
Guest
Im trying to find some information about what stance (if any) the Franciscans took during the whole Jesuit/Dominican argument over free will and grace (15-1600s)…Any thoughts?
Blessings!
Blessings!
- Status
S
sirach2v4
Guest
No thoughts, quite frankly. That’s a tough question.
I’d suggest you look up bonaventure, aquinas, duns scotus, and also check out the catechism on these topics.
I’d suggest you look up bonaventure, aquinas, duns scotus, and also check out the catechism on these topics.
T
TimothyH
Guest
The Pope ordered them all to stop arguing about it and said that if he caught anyone arguing about it again they would be excommunicated.
For the religious, the debate ended right there. There is no stance, one way or another, as far as they are concerned. Its over.
-Tim-
For the religious, the debate ended right there. There is no stance, one way or another, as far as they are concerned. Its over.
-Tim-
O
otjm
Guest
I think the question was more directed to what their stance was before the Pope intervened. Not that I have an answer…
T
TimothyH
Guest
They themselves don’t care what their stance was so why should we? That’s my point.
Z
zaida
Guest
Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut, both of you!
I found a one piece of writing that indicated that the Franciscans didn’t take an official “side” - that some were more Jesuit in their understanding, some more Dominican, and some didn’t express a point of view. Also, interestingly, during the whole fiasco, at one point a few Franciscans were called in to help mediate.
While the Pope said no more arguing - which was a good call IMHO - there are certainly still people who write on these issues. Maritain, Father William Most, Father John Hardon…all interesting stuff…(well - all those great men are gone, may they rest in peace - but well into the 20th century they were exploring these issues)…
There is an exploding interest in Molinism in the Evangelical Christian community at the moment. And Thomas Flint is a Catholic Molinist who writes a lot on the issue.
Blessings!
I found a one piece of writing that indicated that the Franciscans didn’t take an official “side” - that some were more Jesuit in their understanding, some more Dominican, and some didn’t express a point of view. Also, interestingly, during the whole fiasco, at one point a few Franciscans were called in to help mediate.
While the Pope said no more arguing - which was a good call IMHO - there are certainly still people who write on these issues. Maritain, Father William Most, Father John Hardon…all interesting stuff…(well - all those great men are gone, may they rest in peace - but well into the 20th century they were exploring these issues)…
There is an exploding interest in Molinism in the Evangelical Christian community at the moment. And Thomas Flint is a Catholic Molinist who writes a lot on the issue.
Blessings!
O
otjm
Guest
All stuff I should have read and still have not found the time for.If you have suggestions for reading, I would be open to them.
Z
zaida
Guest
OTJM -
I really like Kirk Macgreggors “The life of Luis Molina”…really accessible and thorough intro to molinism…
I would also recommend anything by Father William Most - his book - “grace-predestination, and the salvific will of God - new answers to old questions”- this is a BIG book with LOADS of material…
If you do a search for Dave Armstrong and grace/molinism/Thomism, etc - he has some good stuff on his website/blog- and an excellent summary of Father Mosts position.
Saint Alphonsus - “the means of salvation” (actually I might have that name wrong - but his book on salvation, and the ability given to everyone to pray - good stuff)
Matthew Levering has a book I just read - helpful though I think his presentation of molinism could be strengthened - I don’t think it would help folks who are not already familiar with it - but Leverings discussion of Francis De Sales and Catherine of Sienna - fabulous.
Hope some of these are helpful!!!
Blessings!
I really like Kirk Macgreggors “The life of Luis Molina”…really accessible and thorough intro to molinism…
I would also recommend anything by Father William Most - his book - “grace-predestination, and the salvific will of God - new answers to old questions”- this is a BIG book with LOADS of material…
If you do a search for Dave Armstrong and grace/molinism/Thomism, etc - he has some good stuff on his website/blog- and an excellent summary of Father Mosts position.
Saint Alphonsus - “the means of salvation” (actually I might have that name wrong - but his book on salvation, and the ability given to everyone to pray - good stuff)
Matthew Levering has a book I just read - helpful though I think his presentation of molinism could be strengthened - I don’t think it would help folks who are not already familiar with it - but Leverings discussion of Francis De Sales and Catherine of Sienna - fabulous.
Hope some of these are helpful!!!
Blessings!
O
otjm
Guest
Thank you! 
- Status