Franklin Graham finds it 'hard to swallow' that Caitlyn Jenner got 'Courage Award'

[Kenny_Kamel]

He won the decathlon and was on the Wheaties box. I guess you had to be there.

They were responding to what I said so I would like to frame this in the proper context. Bruce Jenner’s history as an athlete is the only justification for him to be so connected to an award from a sports network. That being said the award was not given because he is/was an athlete but rather because of a tabloid narrative that is in no way related to sports. Bruce Jenner may have been an athlete of note 30+ years ago but this award has to do with his tabloid status gained primarily from being associated with the Kardashians. HE WAS FORGOTTEN as an athlete and frankly he would have stayed forgotten (out of the public’s eye) until he gained notoriety from his association with the Kardashians.

And only recently has he developed his own notoriety beyond whatever he gained from being an athlete because he has essentially become the world’s most famous drag queen. The award was given to him for being a cross dresser under a female alias, not for anything related to his status as an athlete or sports in any way.

 

[Saint_Frank]

They were responding to what I said so I would like to frame this in the proper context. Bruce Jenner’s history as an athlete is the only justification for him to be so connected to an award from a sports network. That being said the award was not given because he is/was an athlete but rather because of a tabloid narrative that is in no way related to sports. Bruce Jenner may have been an athlete of note 30+ years ago but this award has to do with his tabloid status gained primarily from being associated with the Kardashians. HE WAS FORGOTTEN as an athlete and frankly he would have stayed forgotten (out of the public’s eye) until he gained notoriety from his association with the Kardashians.

And only recently has he developed his own notoriety beyond whatever he gained from being an athlete because he has essentially become the world’s most famous drag queen. The award was given to him for being a cross dresser under a female alias, not for anything related to his status as an athlete or sports in any way.

Agreed.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

They were responding to what I said so I would like to frame this in the proper context. Bruce Jenner’s history as an athlete is the only justification for him to be so connected to an award from a sports network. That being said the award was not given because he is/was an athlete but rather because of a tabloid narrative that is in no way related to sports. Bruce Jenner may have been an athlete of note 30+ years ago but this award has to do with his tabloid status gained primarily from being associated with the Kardashians. HE WAS FORGOTTEN as an athlete and frankly he would have stayed forgotten (out of the public’s eye) until he gained notoriety from his association with the Kardashians.

Read Daddy Girl’s post. He wasn’t forgotten as an athlete, not by many. He worked as a motivational speaker in the past and that was related to his success as an athlete and as a person; he didn’t do presentations only to athletes.

And only recently has he developed his own notoriety beyond whatever he gained from being an athlete because he has essentially become the world’s most famous drag queen. The award was given to him for being a cross dresser under a female alias, not for anything related to his status as an athlete or sports in any way.

Technically, he’s not a drag queen, but if you want to continue the confusion of language with regard to non-cisgender people, fine.

 

[TimothyH]

I’m not into track and field but I remember watching Jenner’s events during the Olympics because her scores indicated she was likely to win. I don’t eat Wheaties but being on the box was a big deal.

Back to the hockey team: Do they “rate?”

They rate in my book.

A bunch of suburban kids really, beat one of the best teams on the planet. Most of them were Soviet military and the Soviets were so scared that they would defect that KGB agents traveled with them. The KGB were even sent onto the ice. One of the US team said that he checked a Soviet player into the boards and saw a gun under his jersey.

I met Mike Eruzione and have an autographed puck. Feel free to make an offer.

-Tim-

 

[Saint_Frank]

Technically, he’s not a drag queen, but if you want to continue the confusion of language with regard to non-cisgender people, fine.

Yeah, the drag queen isn’t pretending that he’s actually a woman.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

Yeah, the drag queen isn’t pretending that he’s actually a woman.

Or believes that she is.

 

[Cone]

christiantoday.com/article/franklin.graham.finds.it.hard.to.swallow.that.caitlyn.jenner.got.courage.award/58952.htm

It’s a meaningless award and no one takes it seriously. I didn’t even know the award existed until last week. Maybe ESPN was trying to get a little attention. If so, it worked.

 

[OraLabora]

What do you mean “succumbing to it”? Are transsexuals supposed to suffer through our lives with a body that’s out of sync with the mind and playing-acting a role that’s abnormal to us?

I think that’s something for you to work out with your conscience and with appropriate professional and spiritual help.

We all have crosses to bear. Being an alcoholic or a drug addict is no picnic either. The jury is out on whether sex-reassignment truly reduces the suicide rate. You could equally ask whether a gay man or woman is expected to go through his or her life without ever having any sexual contact or intimate affection?

I agree the condition is a huge burden to carry. I don’t condemn anyone who chooses sex-reassignment as their option to deal with the condition. I’m not convinced it will help, there are many documented cases of where it did not and in fact made things worse.

But I do think that with God all things are possible if we open our hearts to HIm.

 

[Saint_Frank]

I think that’s something for you to work out with your conscience and with appropriate professional and spiritual help.

We all have crosses to bear. Being an alcoholic or a drug addict is no picnic either. The jury is out on whether sex-reassignment truly reduces the suicide rate. You could equally ask whether a gay man or woman is expected to go through his or her life without ever having any sexual contact or intimate affection?

I agree the condition is a huge burden to carry. I don’t condemn anyone who chooses sex-reassignment as their option to deal with the condition. I’m not convinced it will help, there are many documented cases of where it did not and in fact made things worse.

But I do think that with God all things are possible if we open our hearts to HIm.

Yes, there are people who had sex change surgery and who later regretted it and/or detransitioned. True. However, most of us don’t. It’s not for everyone, but that doesn’t mean it’s not for anyone. There are older and elderly trans men and women who transitioned decades ago and they certainly don’t regret it. What makes the difference is if the person is truly a transsexual or not. If they’re not a transsexual and are instead dealing with something else, they’re likely to freak out on cross-sex hormone therapy or after having surgery. Even Jenner said he had a panic attack after having his facial feminization surgery.

Some people end up thinking that they should do it because it will help them be “normal”, such as with some gays and lesbians. Or they do it for some other sexual reason. Others are quite honestly confused. But that just means that they weren’t transsexuals in the first place. If you’re a transsexual, then undergoing cross-sex hormone therapy and sex change surgery will be an immense relief.

In fact, I’m just reading an article from the Advocate (gay magazine) about some “ex-trans” people who are, honestly, bonkers:
advocate.com/transgender/2015/07/17/ex-trans-activists-exposed-big-name-behind-their-fight-against-gender-transit?page=full

Those types, who detransition and then speak out about it as if we’re all like them, have mental health issues. Walt Heyer is another one. They were never transsexuals in the first place (Heyer, in particular, has a dissociative disorder which caused his feeling that he was a woman), but they conflate their own issues onto those who are transsexuals. They assume that because having a sex change was the wrong choice for themselves, it must be wrong for everyone. That’s not true at all and they don’t represent us. The media needs to learn that and stop giving these confused people a platform to go and confuse other people with.

Anyway, I just wanted to clear that up. Thank you for your charitable response. God bless you.

 

[Kenny_Kamel]

Read Daddy Girl’s post. He wasn’t forgotten as an athlete, not by many. He worked as a motivational speaker in the past and that was related to his success as an athlete and as a person; he didn’t do presentations only to athletes.

It has already been established that this award has nothing to do with Bruce Jenner’s career as an athlete. That being said the false justification for a sports entity to give him the award is due to his history as an athlete.

Technically, he’s not a drag queen, but if you want to continue the confusion of language with regard to non-cisgender people, fine.

If my terms are inaccurate then please set me straight. Bruce Jenner is a cross dresser that has assumed a female alias, please do tell.

 

[Saint_Frank]

If my terms are inaccurate then please set me straight. Bruce Jenner is a cross dresser that has assumed a female alias, please do tell.

Drag queens are a type of performance artist who create a flamboyant female persona to perform as. RuPaul is a drag queen, for example. He’s not trans or anything. He’s just a gay guy who does drag and it’s not a full time thing for him. (Drag kings are the flipside of that.)

They do fall under the umbrella of cross-dressing. Some cross-dressers do cross-dress full time, either because they simply feel more comfortable that way or because it’s a sexual fetish. When it’s a sexual fetish, it’s transvestism. Usually transvestites don’t do it full time and keep it a secret. But some do, like Virginia Prince did.

I would say Jenner falls under the category of a transvestite, more specifically a sort of transvestite called an autogynephile.
patheos.com/blogs/warrenthrockmorton/2015/06/11/what-kind-of-woman-is-caitlyn-jenner-part-one-of-a-qa-on-autogynephilia-with-michael-bailey/

Autogynephilia is a part of a model of transgenderism/transsexualism proposed by Ray Blanchard and promoted by Michael Bailey. It’s a faulty model, because it ignores female to male transsexuals and assumes that male to female transsexuals are either gay or straight men who transition for primarily sexual reasons, although the reasons are viewed as being different. However, autogynephilia does seem to be a real thing from my experiences. So that aspect of Blanchard’s theory does have some merit even if the rest of it is wonky.

 

[rae317]

I have a right to be angry. .

You have a right to be angry because you are transsexual and she does not meet your standards of what a real transsexual is? I am sorry that you are so angry and threatened by her.

Personally I believe she stands to help those trans women you care about a great deal by being out, open and honest. Most people have responded to her in a very positive way. If she lessens the stigma and prejudices then she helps save lives.

 

[chris62]

ESPN is a sports network desperately trying to woo viewers in an ever-expanding buffet of viewing options. It wanted to attract attention to itself… and it has done just that.

As a result, I will never watch ESPN ever again.
Hopefully all here will never, as well.

 

[Saint_Frank]

You have a right to be angry because you are transsexual and she does not meet your standards of what a real transsexual is? I am sorry that you are so angry and threatened by her.

Personally I believe she stands to help those trans women you care about a great deal by being out, open and honest. Most people have responded to her in a very positive way. If she lessens the stigma and prejudices then she helps save lives.

Not a “real” transsexual, but a transsexual, period. Transsexualism has a narrow definition and Jenner doesn’t fit it. Jenner makes me angry for the reasons I mentioned in the post you’re responding to.

The only place I’m really seeing positive feedback about Jenner is from the media and that doesn’t count because they’re pretty much forced into being “nice” about it. Much of the comments I’m seeing from people online are negative and ridicule. Jenner isn’t doing anything to help trans women. There’s much better advocates and role models for trans women. Like, you know, people who actually are trans women and aren’t problematic like Jenner is. Anyone who hasn’t killed a woman by driving wrecklessly would be a good choice to start with.

 

[JustaServant]

As a result, I will never watch ESPN ever again.
Hopefully all here will never, as well.

Got rid of Cable a while back.
Don’t miss it at all. The money can be better spent.

 

[rae317]

Not a “real” transsexual, but a transsexual, period. Transsexualism has a narrow definition and Jenner doesn’t fit it. Jenner makes me angry for the reasons I mentioned in the post you’re responding to.
:

Okay, your angry because she is rich, famous, was a great athlete, has a TV show, was in an unfortunate car accident (have you ever been in one that was your fault and someone got hurt? - it is a hard thing to carry after), and the media likes her because people are interested in her?

But what has she done to you really?

You give her a lot of power in your life to make you so angry.

Just because you are transsexual does not give you special insight into who she is as a person. You have not walked in her shoes. Nor have I. Tell you something about me, and I am trans too, but whenever I am judging and putting someone else down it usually has a lot more to do with me and my relationship with God then it does with me and the them.

 

[Saint_Frank]

Okay, your angry because she is rich, famous, was a great athlete, has a TV show, was in an unfortunate car accident (have you ever been in one that was your fault and someone got hurt? - it is a hard thing to carry after), and the media likes her because people are interested in her?

But what has she done to you really?

You give her a lot of power in your life to make you so angry.

Just because you are transsexual does not give you special insight into who she is as a person. You have not walked in her shoes. Nor have I. Tell you something about me, and I am trans too, but whenever I am judging and putting someone else down it usually has a lot more to do with me and my relationship with God then it does with me and the them.

We’ll just have to agree to disagree. I’ve made my case in this thread.

 

[yellowbird]

I’ve appreciated your posts, St. Frank. Thank you for sharing your experience.

God bless.

 

[EasterJoy]

My fear is that these surgeries and hormone treatments are not going to come to be seen for what they are soon. There was a time when frontal lobotomies were hailed as the great advance in psychiatry. Now this? Surely the day will come when the medical community will admit that surgical removal and alteration of healthy organs and giving powerful hormones not needed to treat any physical malady is a well-meant but wrong-headed disaster. When that day comes, Jenner and others like him will be pitied as the victims of this generation’s round of fashionable medical mistreatment.

Whoever is responsible for what this gender dysphoria patient has been doing, it is not him. He has been mislead to believe that his public “transition” is inspiring, encouraging, and will be beneficial to others. Let us hope that this mistake in practice is soon recognized for the mistake that it is and abandoned in favor of something that will actually help people be contented and happy to live their actual gender.

 

[Saint_Frank]

I’ve appreciated your posts, St. Frank. Thank you for sharing your experience.

God bless.

God bless you, as well.

My fear is that these surgeries and hormone treatments are not going to come to be seen for what they are soon. There was a time when frontal lobotomies were hailed as the great advance in psychiatry. Now this? Surely the day will come when the medical community will admit that surgical removal and alteration of healthy organs and giving powerful hormones not needed to treat any physical malady is a well-meant but wrong-headed disaster. When that day comes, Jenner and others like him will be pitied as the victims of this generation’s round of fashionable medical mistreatment.

Whoever is responsible for what this gender dysphoria patient has been doing, it is not him. He has been mislead to believe that his public “transition” is inspiring, encouraging, and will be beneficial to others. Let us hope that this mistake in practice is soon recognized for the mistake that it is and abandoned in favor of something that will actually help people be contented and happy to live their actual gender.

I actually replied to a post that said much the same thing you’re saying here:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=13132367&postcount=69