Frantic handshaking during Mass

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Faithdancer said:
Not to bring this up again, but…
During the “sign of peace” after the Lord’s Prayer, I prefer to keep my hands together in prayer position and bow to those around me. I don’t like the hand shaking because first, I think it often gets carried away, even continuing into the Agnus Dei with people reaching across three pews, running across the aisles, etc, and second, because it really is a prime means of spreading cold and flu viruses. I respect those who do want to shake hands however. The problem is when people ignore my gesture and thrust their hand in front of me- as a woman did today, rather demandingly- and then I feel like I’ll hurt their feelings if I don’t shake their hand. It’s getting to where I don’t want to attend Mass anywhere but the one church where the handshaking thing doesn’t happen- in fact the priests and deacons there skip the “sign of peace” entirely, and no one clutches at your hand during the Lord’s Prayer, either.
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You prefer, I prefer, She prefers. What about we prefer ?
 
I also find the word “frantic” a perfect description of what goes on (I am in England) in Mass. I do not have a problem with shaking hands itself, but I think people have lost the perspective. The handshake as a sign of peace in Mass in symbolic. This to me means that I shake hands with the two people who happen to be on my left and my right, saying “peace be with you”. This takes about 5 seconds - then we are (should be) ready and collected for Agnus Dei. But people shake hands with the whole row, plus the one in front and behind, plus, leaning over to the one in front of the one in front and the one behind the one behind… and some people run across the aisle, as the op said. After shaking hands with the two people on either side I sometimes kneel and close my eyes regardless of the commotion to show that as far as I am concerned this part of the Mass is done - and sometimes people actually poke me and insist. I wish priests would explain now and then e.g. in the homily that the handshake is symbolic.
 
I think people should be considerate of others. I was in the hospital recently and developed pneumonia after I was released. Even though I feel better I still have a wicked cough. I brought a cup of water in with me to sip on when I’d get a coughing fit. At the sigh of peace as hands were extended to me I quickly said that I’d been very sick and thought it best not to shake. I had been coughing on the inside of my elbow instead of my hand, but I just didn’t feel right about it. I wasn’t contagious, but they didn’t know that. The woman in front of me is pregnant. She thanked me for being thoughtful of her pregnancy.

We rarely have more than few people leave their seats and they rarely go more than 2 pews over. There’s just no reason to run around.
 
If someone wishes to not extend their hand in a sign of peace, they certainly are able to extend their sign of peace to me through their eyes. It’s certainly a very small cross to bear in either direction.
 
I live in the Philippines and people bow or on occasion wave then. This avoids the problems and the upset shown by some of these posts.
 
Faithdancer said:
Not to bring this up again, but…
During the “sign of peace” after the Lord’s Prayer, I prefer to keep my hands together in prayer position and bow to those around me. I don’t like the hand shaking because first, I think it often gets carried away, even continuing into the Agnus Dei with people reaching across three pews, running across the aisles, etc, and second, because it really is a prime means of spreading cold and flu viruses. I respect those who do want to shake hands however. The problem is when people ignore my gesture and thrust their hand in front of me- as a woman did today, rather demandingly- and then I feel like I’ll hurt their feelings if I don’t shake their hand. It’s getting to where I don’t want to attend Mass anywhere but the one church where the handshaking thing doesn’t happen- in fact the priests and deacons there skip the “sign of peace” entirely, and no one clutches at your hand during the Lord’s Prayer, either.
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Just a thought but, instead of focusing on trying to get other people to NOT be so enthusiastic in their actiong during the Sign of Peace, I think you need to work more on yourself and worry less about hurting your fellow parishoner’s feelings if you do not prefer to shake their hand when they extend it. They are adults, they can handle you extending the sign of peace in a manner you find comfortable. If they aren’t mature enough to handle not shaking hands, then that is their issue, not yours. You don’t have to participate in any form or gesture that other people feel comfortable offering as a sign of peace.
 
Faithdancer said:
Not to bring this up again, but…
During the “sign of peace” after the Lord’s Prayer, I prefer to keep my hands together in prayer position and bow to those around me. I don’t like the hand shaking because first, I think it often gets carried away, even continuing into the Agnus Dei with people reaching across three pews, running across the aisles, etc, and second, because it really is a prime means of spreading cold and flu viruses. .
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You must not drink the wine then. Everybody drinking from the same cup. They wipe the chalice w/ a towel, but it’s not santized. Notice the guy who was hacking in the pews drinking before you do. :eek:
 
Having a robust constitution and an outgoing personality I enjoy the handshakes as a symbol of greeting my brothers and sisters in Christ before we partake of the Eucharist.

Some people don’t.

I’m not sure why we need multiple threads on the subject though.🤷
 
PatriceA said:
Just a thought but, instead of focusing on trying to get other people to NOT be so enthusiastic in their actiong during the Sign of Peace, I think you need to work more on yourself and worry less about hurting your fellow parishoner’s feelings if you do not prefer to shake their hand when they extend it. They are adults, they can handle you extending the sign of peace in a manner you find comfortable. If they aren’t mature enough to handle not shaking hands, then that is their issue, not yours. You don’t have to participate in any form or gesture that other people feel comfortable offering as a sign of peace.
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Some years ago I attended Mass in a different city. At the time of the recitation of the Lord’s Prayer, most of the congregation joined hands with the people next to them. Those on the aisle went out into it to grasp the person’s hand on the other side while those in the pews all moved toward center to help make the link. At the end they all raised their connected hands over their heads for a grand finale.

The sign of peace is part of the new Mass. The practice of hand holding at the Lord’s prayer kind of snuck into the liturgical format.

I had my hands folded and eyes closed until the woman next to me startled me when she wacked me on the elbow a couple of times. I looked up and realized what was going on, bowed my head back down to continue to pray. She insistently wacked my elbow again and stuck her hand in front of me. I think she thought I was being rude.

At the sign of peace I turned to my right and left to acknowledge the people there. She was very angry and refused to return the signal.

What is interesting in discussions like this on the forum, to me at least, is that after 2,000 years of Christian worship, there is all this debate, discomfort, awkwardness, about how to do it. It should be easy, like singing a song you have sung all your life.

At some parishes you see people who after shaking hands with everyone in their vicinity, and hugging some, then feel compelled to wave to everyone they know five pews away.

Hi there. I see you. Big wave.

It really is chaos, hustle and bustle. When some people shake hands they ask questions and make statements. It is pretty common. How are you? Good to see you back from your mother’s funeral. Did your daughter have her baby yet? How is the new house? Congratulations!

How can we still not all have figured out and be comfortable with what we are supposed to be doing in Church? How can anyone not see that this has become a disruption and distraction from the high point of worship of God who is present in front if us on the altar?
 
grandfather said:
Some years ago I attended Mass in a different city. At the time of the recitation of the Lord’s Prayer, most of the congregation joined hands with the people next to them. Those on the aisle went out into it to grasp the person’s hand on the other side while those in the pews all moved toward center to help make the link. At the end they all raised their connected hands over their heads for a grand finale.

The sign of peace is part of the new Mass. The practice of hand holding at the Lord’s prayer kind of snuck into the liturgical format.

I had my hands folded and eyes closed until the woman next to me startled me when she wacked me on the elbow a couple of times. I looked up and realized what was going on, bowed my head back down to continue to pray. She insistently wacked my elbow again and stuck her hand in front of me. I think she thought I was being rude.

At the sign of peace I turned to my right and left to acknowledge the people there. She was very angry and refused to return the signal.

What is interesting in discussions like this on the forum, to me at least, is that after 2,000 years of Christian worship, there is all this debate, discomfort, awkwardness, about how to do it. It should be easy, like singing a song you have sung all your life.

At some parishes you see people who after shaking hands with everyone in their vicinity, and hugging some, then feel compelled to wave to everyone they know five pews away.

Hi there. I see you. Big wave.

It really is chaos, hustle and bustle. When some people shake hands they ask questions and make statements. It is pretty common. How are you? Good to see you back from your mother’s funeral. Did your daughter have her baby yet? How is the new house? Congratulations!

How can we still not all have figured out and be comfortable with what we are supposed to be doing in Church? How can anyone not see that this has become a disruption and distraction from the high point of worship of God who is present in front if us on the altar?
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I always try to gauge what the other person is comfortable with when I turn to the person beside be or behind me. We lose respect for our fellow parishoners when we assume they are comfortable with their public gesture or display of the sign of peace. I am a sexual abuse survivor, I have not always been comfortable with the physical touch of strangers. I’m better now, but having gone through my experience, I know there are other people that may have a particular problem of exchanging such physical gestures of the sign of peace that I am now comfortable exchanging. But I’ve also learned, when I was having a particular bad spell in my recovery, it was also within my right in my healing process to NOT participate to the same degree as anybody sitting in the pews with me. I don’t have to accept someone touching me just because they think they can. If they are angry or reject me later in the mass, that’s their issue and their reaction is not my responsibility.
 
MarMax said:
It is not omitted in the TLM. The Deacon and the Priest exchange it.

There is no historical precedent for meet-and-greet, hand-shaking distraction during the Liturgy. The Mass is the representation of the Sacrifice of Calvary, not a time to catch up. There is nothing to allow for what is seen now, not even in the GIRM.
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Actually, there is a historical precedent for it. It’s 2000 years old by now.
 
grandfather said:
It was done by the priest and deacon, or priest concelebrants in the precise manner as can still be seen in eastern rites where liturgies remain unchanged from antiquity.

The claim that the entire congregation giving “some sign of peace” to one another is apostolic tradition is a fabrication concocted as a defense of the novel practice.

The claim that the new order of the Mass is a restoration of tradition rather than a radical break from it is fantasy. This is not a criticism of the new Mass. The fact that something is not traditional does not in itself mean it is flawed.

It is true that the vast majority of contagious illnesses, colds and flus, are spread by direct person to person contact, shaking hands. I don’t worry about catching a cold at Mass or anywhere. I don’t get colds. On the other hand there are people who are immuno-supressed, people who have organ transplants and are on anti-rejection medications who need to be very cautious in public settings. Their systems lack the ability to mount a defense and overcome common illnesses once contracted. The elderly are also often unable to fight off common infections. A simple cold can have drastic consequences.

Should they all wear signs explaining why they don’t want to contact fellow worshippers?

I really do love the family in the pew in front of me. The parents holding their three year old who is crawling all over the floor with a big green streak from his nose to lip are dear friends. The local parish has large dispensors of Purell by every entrance. What is the point? Is it an attempt to sanitize us so we can practice safe worship?
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No, in the Eastern Rites the congregation exchange the kiss of peace from as far back as anybody has cared to document what goes on in a Liturgy. It is actually the omitting of the practice which is a recent, modern development.
 
I think people should go back to wearing gloves at church!😛
Remember when all the women and girls wore those little white gloves?

Actually, I think most people on this thread a little TOO germaphobic. It’s not that big of a deal.🤷
 
ConstantineTG said:
No, in the Eastern Rites the congregation exchange the kiss of peace from as far back as anybody has cared to document what goes on in a Liturgy. It is actually the omitting of the practice which is a recent, modern development.
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I have been to several eastern liturgies and attend one regularly and have never seen it.
 
ConstantineTG said:
The kiss of peace was established from Apostolic times. To remove it from Liturgy (or any of its forms like the handshaking) is actually against Apostolic tradition.
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I thought it was optional.

In fact, when I was at the funeral Mass for my former pastor (which was said by the bishop), he did not choose to have people offer each other a sign of peace. Which was fine with me, not because I don’t like to offer peace, but because in most (not all) of the places I have been (obviously, not every parish in the U.S. and world) the sign of peace is not limited to an exchange of peace such as a sober nod, a handshake, a bow, whatever, but does indeed involve people leaving the pews, crossing the aisles, talking loudly, flashing ‘peace signs’, hugging and kissing and running around to see grandma and grampa up on the altar who have gone up to be EHMCs. . .the EMHCs themselves high-fiving and blackslapping. . and all of this during the AGNUS DEI yet. if it weren’t for the fact that the AD was usually sung, nobody would even notice it with all the noise, and certainly few pay attention as it’s ‘background’ to the important ritual of community involvement.

Actually, friend, I would indeed prefer the ‘kiss of peace’ in a sober fashion, done with the persons right next to you (left and right), not the people in front or behind, the next pew over, etc. That way we MIGHT be able to concentrate on the Agnus Dei appropriately, and people would still perform this rite if it MUST (it is optional) be done.

Now obviously if my years of experience had involved people giving the sign of peace in a quiet, reverent manner, I would probably look FORWARD to the sign of peace as a normal, loving, integral part of the Mass (even though it is optional). Probably many people reading this have had this experience and wonder–might not even believe–that anybody else’s experience could be so different.

But it can be. It shouldn’t be, but it can be.

Most of us really do not want a sign of peace totally gone forever (well, only on the days when it’s been the worst!). Really. We just want to have it done, not according to OUR will, but according to the standards of the Church, and not ‘what has become the parish custom of all out stampeding and hullaballoing’).

If there exist one or two people in your parish who might, now and then, cross the aisle to greet an old friend or somebody who has been sick and recently recovered, please BE ASSURED that we are NOT SAYING that these people are ‘inappropriate’ or doing things wrong.

Even those who routinely do this because they’ve become accustomed to ‘Parish McFriendly’ aren’t culpable as they really don’t know they are NOT supposed to careen across the Church, throw their kids up in the air, or have a booming conversation about football season prospects.

We just want a gentle, gradual, pastor-led ‘education’ which will guide the people to doing the Sign of Peace according to Hoyle, so to speak. . .and clearing up the MESS which exists in some (not all) parishes on a regular, semi-regular, or occasional basis.
 
Tantum_ergo said:
I thought it was optional.

In fact, when I was at the funeral Mass for my former pastor (which was said by the bishop), he did not choose to have people offer each other a sign of peace. Which was fine with me, not because I don’t like to offer peace, but because in most (not all) of the places I have been (obviously, not every parish in the U.S. and world) the sign of peace is not limited to an exchange of peace such as a sober nod, a handshake, a bow, whatever, but does indeed involve people leaving the pews, crossing the aisles, talking loudly, flashing ‘peace signs’, hugging and kissing and running around to see grandma and grampa up on the altar who have gone up to be EHMCs. . .the EMHCs themselves high-fiving and blackslapping. . and all of this during the AGNUS DEI yet. if it weren’t for the fact that the AD was usually sung, nobody would even notice it with all the noise, and certainly few pay attention as it’s ‘background’ to the important ritual of community involvement.

Actually, friend, I would indeed prefer the ‘kiss of peace’ in a sober fashion, done with the persons right next to you (left and right), not the people in front or behind, the next pew over, etc. That way we MIGHT be able to concentrate on the Agnus Dei appropriately, and people would still perform this rite if it MUST (it is optional) be done.

Now obviously if my years of experience had involved people giving the sign of peace in a quiet, reverent manner, I would probably look FORWARD to the sign of peace as a normal, loving, integral part of the Mass (even though it is optional). Probably many people reading this have had this experience and wonder–might not even believe–that anybody else’s experience could be so different.

But it can be. It shouldn’t be, but it can be.

Most of us really do not want a sign of peace totally gone forever (well, only on the days when it’s been the worst!). Really. We just want to have it done, not according to OUR will, but according to the standards of the Church, and not ‘what has become the parish custom of all out stampeding and hullaballoing’).

If there exist one or two people in your parish who might, now and then, cross the aisle to greet an old friend or somebody who has been sick and recently recovered, please BE ASSURED that we are NOT SAYING that these people are ‘inappropriate’ or doing things wrong.

Even those who routinely do this because they’ve become accustomed to ‘Parish McFriendly’ aren’t culpable as they really don’t know they are NOT supposed to careen across the Church, throw their kids up in the air, or have a booming conversation about football season prospects.

We just want a gentle, gradual, pastor-led ‘education’ which will guide the people to doing the Sign of Peace according to Hoyle, so to speak. . .and clearing up the MESS which exists in some (not all) parishes on a regular, semi-regular, or occasional basis.
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Ok, i totally understand where you are coming from and I agree with you, there really is a problem that needs to be fixed. However, having said that, I also just want to point out to all those people (not saying you are one of them) who decide that instead of following the GIRM they are going to stand/kneel stoically looking forward, refusing to make eye-contact with anyone etc. Yes, in many places the sign of peace is not performed as it should be, but does that really give people the right to ignore the rubrics themselves? “Other people are ignoring them, so I’m just gonna go ignore them in the other extreme” really just doesn’t seem like a good solution.
 
From the GIRM:
The Rite of Peace
82. The Rite of Peace follows, by which the Church asks for peace and unity for herself and
for the whole human family, and the faithful express to each other their ecclesial communion and
mutual charity before communicating in the Sacrament.
As for the sign of peace to be given, the manner is to be established by Conferences of Bishops in
accordance with the culture and customs of the peoples. It is, however, appropriate that each
person offer the sign of peace only to those who are nearest and in a sober manner.
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USCCB Site:
The Rite of Peace follows. The celebrant prays that the peace of Christ will fill our hearts, our families, our Church, our communities, and our world. As a sign of hope, the people extend to those around them a sign of peace, typically by shaking hands.
Source: usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/sacraments/eucharist/structure-and-meaning-of-the-mass-backgrounder.cfm
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NOTE: it must be in a sober manner… what does that mean? Well, first and foremost, those around you means you don’t break ranks to go shake Bob’s hand somewhere else. Around you, in a sober manner, means 1) those directly in your area in which you aren’t treating it like a campaign stop 2) sober-- it’s not meet and greet time.
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The abuse, yes, ABUSE of these guidelines is the inch given has been taken to a mile: and needs to be taken away entirely until people get it into their heads what the Mass PRIMARILY is: the bloodless representation (not facsimile, but RE-presentation: AGAIN. This moment IS Calvary!); the Mass is NOT a community meal, nor is the Lord’s Supper properly understood in that context. It is primarily a Sacrifice and secondly a Marriage Supper: the joining of the Husband and Wife: receiving Holy Communion: becoming ONE with the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ!

Baldacchino: newadvent.org/images/01346acx.gif

The presence of the baldacchino should, but rarely does, clue people in to the nature of this moment. The Baldacchino is quite literally a canopy with bedposts, and the Altar is the Marriage Bed. “For this reason a man (Christ) shall leave his father (God the Father) and mother (Our Lady), and join to his wife (Church)”.

The happy-clappy nonsense has turned Calvary into a party, and the marriage bed into a commune’s orgy of insanity. Seriously, would ANYONE think to do the things they do in Mass at Calvary? Gosh, I hope not. But they are; mainly due to improper catechesis and the influence of the world on the Churchmen instead of the Churchmen influencing the world.
 
thewanderer said:
Ok, i totally understand where you are coming from and I agree with you, there really is a problem that needs to be fixed. However, having said that, I also just want to point out to all those people (not saying you are one of them) who decide that instead of following the GIRM they are going to stand/kneel stoically looking forward, refusing to make eye-contact with anyone etc. Yes, in many places the sign of peace is not performed as it should be, but does that really give people the right to ignore the rubrics themselves? “Other people are ignoring them, so I’m just gonna go ignore them in the other extreme” really just doesn’t seem like a good solution.
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Absolutely. I make it a point to exchange a nod with my mother who stands next to me, and to anybody else on the other side. And if the people behind me or in front of me reach around and hold out their hands to me, I will shake hands if I’m not having an arthritis attack, and will whisper quietly (can’t, the arthritis is acting up) and nod vigorously if I AM having great pains. I mean, we are told to offer the peace, not to ignore people, so I try to do as best I can.
 
grandfather said:
Some years ago I attended Mass in a different city. At the time of the recitation of the Lord’s Prayer, most of the congregation joined hands with the people next to them. Those on the aisle went out into it to grasp the person’s hand on the other side while those in the pews all moved toward center to help make the link. At the end they all raised their connected hands over their heads for a grand finale.

The sign of peace is part of the new Mass. The practice of hand holding at the Lord’s prayer kind of snuck into the liturgical format.

I had my hands folded and eyes closed until the woman next to me startled me when she wacked me on the elbow a couple of times. I looked up and realized what was going on, bowed my head back down to continue to pray. She insistently wacked my elbow again and stuck her hand in front of me. I think she thought I was being rude.

At the sign of peace I turned to my right and left to acknowledge the people there. She was very angry and refused to return the signal.

What is interesting in discussions like this on the forum, to me at least, is that after 2,000 years of Christian worship, there is all this debate, discomfort, awkwardness, about how to do it. It should be easy, like singing a song you have sung all your life.

At some parishes you see people who after shaking hands with everyone in their vicinity, and hugging some, then feel compelled to wave to everyone they know five pews away.

Hi there. I see you. Big wave.

It really is chaos, hustle and bustle. When some people shake hands they ask questions and make statements. It is pretty common. How are you? Good to see you back from your mother’s funeral. Did your daughter have her baby yet? How is the new house? Congratulations!

How can we still not all have figured out and be comfortable with what we are supposed to be doing in Church? How can anyone not see that this has become a disruption and distraction from the high point of worship of God who is present in front if us on the altar?
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at my parish they do the whole holding hands thing and those at the end of the aisles joining hands to make one big continuos hand holding and at the end, we hold up our hands. i don’t like it. again, i am more introverted and prefer to go to Mass and concentrate on the Mass and my spirituality. some might say that i am missing one point of the Mass - bringing the Christian community together and being with our brothers and sisters in Christ. i just don’t want to be holding hands and shaking hands with other parishoners. it is a disruption and a distraction to me and i wish we didn’t have it as part of the Mass.
 
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